Silver the new gold?
Discussion
call me cynical, but usually by the time such news is hitting the mainstream press, the horse has well and truly bolted and its just someone ramping the price...and greater fool theory taking over
"get in now" before it goes up....but when do you get out ? how long do you wait before it collapses ?
"get in now" before it goes up....but when do you get out ? how long do you wait before it collapses ?
Been recommending silver here since July when it made its low circa $26-27. Every upleg I've seen since I first got involved in the mid 2000s has been greeted with "it's in a bubble blah blah" It now trades 3-4x higher. Silver will trade at $100 then $200 then $400.... My target for my own metal is currently £300/oz.
Loads will call you daft for even considering it. They will tell you it's speculative etc etc. Monetary history would not agree. When the guy in the street wakes up, if they haven't introduced a currency control on its purchase, there will be hell to pay.
Be prepared for a volatile ride, but if you can keep your fingers off it you will be very glad you did.
Read and think for yourself. Don't listen to anyone including me!
Colin.
Loads will call you daft for even considering it. They will tell you it's speculative etc etc. Monetary history would not agree. When the guy in the street wakes up, if they haven't introduced a currency control on its purchase, there will be hell to pay.
Be prepared for a volatile ride, but if you can keep your fingers off it you will be very glad you did.
Read and think for yourself. Don't listen to anyone including me!
Colin.
B17NNS said:
Cheers 
What's the best way to buy?
The VAT element makes physical metal less attractive.
What's the best way to buy?
The VAT element makes physical metal less attractive.
http://www.guernseymint.comJust don't buy to much in one go.....
Not sure how it works in the UK, but the vast majority of my silver is held in what's called "90% junk" or pre-1965 US Quarters, dimes and half dollars. A $1,000 face value bag generally contains about 715 ounces and usually trades for around melt.
ETA: These are coins with no real collector value. Think circulated Washington Quarters, Roosevelt dimes, etc. a worn 1960 Dime is worth silver value only.
ETA: These are coins with no real collector value. Think circulated Washington Quarters, Roosevelt dimes, etc. a worn 1960 Dime is worth silver value only.
Probably the most reknowned guy in the silver business is David Morgan of silverinvestor.com There are others with a brilliant track record too such as James Turk, Eric Sprott and Jim Sinclair, though his commentary is mainly on gold, does from time to time give a very worthwhile comment on silver too. I have a paid subscription to the Morgan Report and would recommend it to anyone thinking of investing in silver.
My own view of buying bullion and taking physical delivery is be very careful indeed as we go forward. These metals are likely to be worth a multiple of today's prices and it is difficult to be sure who knows what you have got. People get robbed at knife point for much less. It's very hard to be sure nobody knows you have a stash somewhere, it's easy to forget what you mentioned and to whome.
My metal is in vaults in London and Zurich and so though I could still get burgled in the night and wake with a gun in my face there is nothing to give them. If you have a stash I'm pretty sure you would cough up!
In all, the storage costs which include insurance are tiny compared to the capital appreciation involved.
A final point often used to justify the holding of metal outside the vault system is that it will be a useful means of barter in a collapsing fiat sytem. Have a good think about what that would mean before joining that view. I personally see no use for it ever going forward other than as a store of value during a multinational sovereign debt crisis.
Colin.
My own view of buying bullion and taking physical delivery is be very careful indeed as we go forward. These metals are likely to be worth a multiple of today's prices and it is difficult to be sure who knows what you have got. People get robbed at knife point for much less. It's very hard to be sure nobody knows you have a stash somewhere, it's easy to forget what you mentioned and to whome.
My metal is in vaults in London and Zurich and so though I could still get burgled in the night and wake with a gun in my face there is nothing to give them. If you have a stash I'm pretty sure you would cough up!
In all, the storage costs which include insurance are tiny compared to the capital appreciation involved.
A final point often used to justify the holding of metal outside the vault system is that it will be a useful means of barter in a collapsing fiat sytem. Have a good think about what that would mean before joining that view. I personally see no use for it ever going forward other than as a store of value during a multinational sovereign debt crisis.
Colin.
Dave 500 said:
Its all above board they put a customs declaration on the package when its posted, then its just pot luck if VAT gets charged as it comes through.
My understanding is that HMRC are very hot on the subject of VAT evasion. There used to be an £18 or so threshold but think it's since been revoked. I can't imagine many packages getting through plus when you come to sell what do you say when asked where you purchased it? they put a customs declaration on the package when its posted, then its just pot luck if VAT gets charged as it comes through. What about other EU countries?
Germany 7% on coin (still 19% on bar though).
http://www.vatea.de/Silverbullions:::55.html
Interesting 'coin' here.
http://www.vatea.de/Silverbullions/Rwanda-1000-RWF...
Edited by B17NNS on Sunday 18th November 13:04
longone said:
Been recommending silver here since July when it made its low circa $26-27. Every upleg I've seen since I first got involved in the mid 2000s has been greeted with "it's in a bubble blah blah" It now trades 3-4x higher. Silver will trade at $100 then $200 then $400.
Er, Silver is at $33 today.NorthernBoy said:
longone said:
Been recommending silver here since July when it made its low circa $26-27. Every upleg I've seen since I first got involved in the mid 2000s has been greeted with "it's in a bubble blah blah" It now trades 3-4x higher. Silver will trade at $100 then $200 then $400.
Er, Silver is at $33 today.Why anyone is sending their scrap away to these 'cash for metal' type places amazes me.
Had a quick look on e-bay and scrap is going for way more than spot.
113g of 925 (some of which is stone) currently £102.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-JOB-LOT-925-STERLI...
1oz rounds making silly money on there too.
I've bid spot on every 999 coin this evening. Rapidly been outbid on the majority. Don't imagine I'll win a single auction.
Had a quick look on e-bay and scrap is going for way more than spot.
113g of 925 (some of which is stone) currently £102.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LARGE-JOB-LOT-925-STERLI...
1oz rounds making silly money on there too.
I've bid spot on every 999 coin this evening. Rapidly been outbid on the majority. Don't imagine I'll win a single auction.
My understanding is that German VAT is charged at 7% on coin and 19% on bullion but there is also coin bar (basically bullion but called a coin 
.
http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/order_collectio...
You can either collect or due to the VAT rules they are allowed to deliver to an address in Germany (either your hotel, or a courier for onward transportation to the UK).
http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/5k...
5 kilo coin bar £3462.93 ex VAT
£3795.34 inc 7%
5 kilo bar (bought here inc 20% VAT)
£4266.00
http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/silver-bars/5kg-sil...
So about a £470 saving buying in Germany and a bit closer to spot at around £3336.
There is a 1 kilo bar on the bay at the moment for £880. Can be bought VAT paid in Germany for £753.
It's definitely the VAT that is the killer here. Hard to justify to yourself buying an 'investment' that with no movement in the market is worth considerably less than you paid the day before (allowing for VAT plus margin).
The potential for large increases whilst very attractive must be tempered with thoughts of stagnation or even considerable losses.
At the moment I'm having a play. The result of my e-bay adventure has resulted in 1 one ounce coin and a one ounce bar which including postage have come in at spot plus VAT (cheaper than can be bought from a dealer because there's no margin). At that price I consider it attractive because I'll always be able to punt anything I buy back onto e-bay and know it will sell for sensible money should I need to sell it.
Another thing to consider if investing significant sums is CGT but lets be honest that would be a nice problem to have.
Silver is zero rated for VAT in Estonia but the thought of handing over £10k in crisp Euro notes to an Eastern European in exchange for a briefcase scares me. That said, this companys procedure seems the same as the German one. Assuming all legit with HMRC and carriage is insured it might be worth considering.
https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/
ETA Scratch the Estonia thought, their silver is expensive. £3795 for 5k (0% VAT)
https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/kopa/produkt/cook_...
. http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/order_collectio...
You can either collect or due to the VAT rules they are allowed to deliver to an address in Germany (either your hotel, or a courier for onward transportation to the UK).
http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/5k...
5 kilo coin bar £3462.93 ex VAT
£3795.34 inc 7%
5 kilo bar (bought here inc 20% VAT)
£4266.00
http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/silver-bars/5kg-sil...
So about a £470 saving buying in Germany and a bit closer to spot at around £3336.
There is a 1 kilo bar on the bay at the moment for £880. Can be bought VAT paid in Germany for £753.
It's definitely the VAT that is the killer here. Hard to justify to yourself buying an 'investment' that with no movement in the market is worth considerably less than you paid the day before (allowing for VAT plus margin).
The potential for large increases whilst very attractive must be tempered with thoughts of stagnation or even considerable losses.
At the moment I'm having a play. The result of my e-bay adventure has resulted in 1 one ounce coin and a one ounce bar which including postage have come in at spot plus VAT (cheaper than can be bought from a dealer because there's no margin). At that price I consider it attractive because I'll always be able to punt anything I buy back onto e-bay and know it will sell for sensible money should I need to sell it.
Another thing to consider if investing significant sums is CGT but lets be honest that would be a nice problem to have.
Silver is zero rated for VAT in Estonia but the thought of handing over £10k in crisp Euro notes to an Eastern European in exchange for a briefcase scares me. That said, this companys procedure seems the same as the German one. Assuming all legit with HMRC and carriage is insured it might be worth considering.
https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/
ETA Scratch the Estonia thought, their silver is expensive. £3795 for 5k (0% VAT)
https://www.libertysilver.ee/en/kopa/produkt/cook_...
Edited by B17NNS on Wednesday 21st November 14:03
Have you considered BullionVault?
Currently, silver is £671 per kilo (£3355 for 5 kilos)
www.bullionvault.com
Currently, silver is £671 per kilo (£3355 for 5 kilos)
www.bullionvault.com
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