Help with entering the world of grad filters
Discussion
I am looking at getting a set of grad filters, and am massively confused by the range of sizes, types and makes.
I would ideally like to get a decent set that will last me, not something that I will want to replace and upgrade after a while (but I can't justify starting out with a Lee kit!). I will most likely want to add some form of big stopper to the collection at some point in the future, so would want a system that would allow me to do that. I am looking at starting with a set of soft grads.
What confuses me most is the different sizes and holder systems. Do all of the holders allow you to position the filters exactly where you want them? Do any of the holders work with filters from other brands, i.e. Lee filters with Hitech holder?
The Cokin P system looks like the cheapest way into the world of filters by a considerable margin, but I have heard mixed reviews of Cokins, so have also been looking at the Hitech 100mm. Would I typically need the 100mm, or would an 85mm system be more than enough?
What are the benefits of the 100mm over 85mm? Is it just that it allows for stacking more filters, and the use of wider lenses with less vignetting? Would getting a 100mm system allow me to position the filter lower and use as a standard ND filter? - I have heard some people suggest this before.
Is the Hitech setup worth the extra outlay over the cheap and cheerful Cokin setup for a complete landscape novice like me?
Finally, on the subject of Hitech sets (should that be the direction the advice points me in), does anyone know of better deals than this:
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
It seems to be the best bundle and price for Hitech that I have found so far.
Sorry for the question overload, I really am in the dark when it comes to this area. Hopefully all of the above makes some sort of sense though!?
Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
I would ideally like to get a decent set that will last me, not something that I will want to replace and upgrade after a while (but I can't justify starting out with a Lee kit!). I will most likely want to add some form of big stopper to the collection at some point in the future, so would want a system that would allow me to do that. I am looking at starting with a set of soft grads.
What confuses me most is the different sizes and holder systems. Do all of the holders allow you to position the filters exactly where you want them? Do any of the holders work with filters from other brands, i.e. Lee filters with Hitech holder?
The Cokin P system looks like the cheapest way into the world of filters by a considerable margin, but I have heard mixed reviews of Cokins, so have also been looking at the Hitech 100mm. Would I typically need the 100mm, or would an 85mm system be more than enough?
What are the benefits of the 100mm over 85mm? Is it just that it allows for stacking more filters, and the use of wider lenses with less vignetting? Would getting a 100mm system allow me to position the filter lower and use as a standard ND filter? - I have heard some people suggest this before.
Is the Hitech setup worth the extra outlay over the cheap and cheerful Cokin setup for a complete landscape novice like me?
Finally, on the subject of Hitech sets (should that be the direction the advice points me in), does anyone know of better deals than this:
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
It seems to be the best bundle and price for Hitech that I have found so far.
Sorry for the question overload, I really am in the dark when it comes to this area. Hopefully all of the above makes some sort of sense though!?
Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
What lenses and body do you have?
The main decision to take first is what size filters do you need?
85mm is OK for crop bodies and not so wide lenses
For example the 3 filter holder is visible until 13mm or more on a sigma 10-20 and 17-20mm or so on a 17-55 (7d).
The cokin single wide angle adaptor is much better (11mm or so if not 'turned') but is a piece of junk that falls off (lost me my reverse grad too).
100mm is fine for wide lenses up to 16-17mm and the 24tilt shift etc (but still causes issues here).
The Lee (and hitech) 100mm holders are similar, the lee is built better, the hitech I think is made for slightly different thickness of filter nbut they work with both (I use hitech ND's on a lee system, the hitech filters are a little thinner, 2mm).
These holders can be 'built' to hold 1,2,3 filters and have 2mm (hitech) or 4mm (lee) thick runners.
Have to say I love my lee system , very well built.
As to the filters themselves avoid cokin filters entirely - apart from the 82mm circular polariser if you co cokin P/85mm.
Hitech are really neutral if you stack 2 of them 3 have a bit of a cast but not much.
For 10 stops avoid the older cheaper hitech, even the new pro one is not as good as a big stopper, also consider the B+W 10 stop screw on filter.
The main decision to take first is what size filters do you need?
85mm is OK for crop bodies and not so wide lenses
For example the 3 filter holder is visible until 13mm or more on a sigma 10-20 and 17-20mm or so on a 17-55 (7d).
The cokin single wide angle adaptor is much better (11mm or so if not 'turned') but is a piece of junk that falls off (lost me my reverse grad too).
100mm is fine for wide lenses up to 16-17mm and the 24tilt shift etc (but still causes issues here).
The Lee (and hitech) 100mm holders are similar, the lee is built better, the hitech I think is made for slightly different thickness of filter nbut they work with both (I use hitech ND's on a lee system, the hitech filters are a little thinner, 2mm).
These holders can be 'built' to hold 1,2,3 filters and have 2mm (hitech) or 4mm (lee) thick runners.
Have to say I love my lee system , very well built.
As to the filters themselves avoid cokin filters entirely - apart from the 82mm circular polariser if you co cokin P/85mm.
Hitech are really neutral if you stack 2 of them 3 have a bit of a cast but not much.
For 10 stops avoid the older cheaper hitech, even the new pro one is not as good as a big stopper, also consider the B+W 10 stop screw on filter.
Thanks for the very informative replies.
Rob, body is a crop (Nikon D5100) and current lenses are 18-55 kit lens, 18-270, 55-200 and 35mm prime. I would probably be mostly using the kit lens at this stage but would like to add a wider lens to the collection in future.
I think I will look at the 100mm Hitechs.
Looking at the bundle deals, what's the difference between these two?
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
One says wide angle, the other standard, but the filters seem to be the same size and the holder kits don't appear to be any different either, from what I can tell.
Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
Rob, body is a crop (Nikon D5100) and current lenses are 18-55 kit lens, 18-270, 55-200 and 35mm prime. I would probably be mostly using the kit lens at this stage but would like to add a wider lens to the collection in future.
I think I will look at the 100mm Hitechs.
Looking at the bundle deals, what's the difference between these two?
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/hitech-series-modular...
One says wide angle, the other standard, but the filters seem to be the same size and the holder kits don't appear to be any different either, from what I can tell.
Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
ChipsAndCheese said:
One says wide angle, the other standard, but the filters seem to be the same size and the holder kits don't appear to be any different either, from what I can tell.
Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
The wide angle bit refers to the adaptor ring. Its recessed back towards the body holding the filter system closer to the lens.Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
This is better for wide angle shooting but for a tele lens (say my 400mmf5.6) the adaptor doesnt fit (I'd need the normal one).
2 stop soft is a decent balance for daytime skies. For sunset/sunrise I would go for 3 stop and/or hard grad if the horizion is clear cut (aka ocean/seascapes)
Just about done....
oh whats this? by robjdickinson, on Flickr
oh whats this? by robjdickinson, on Flickr
Edited by RobDickinson on Monday 3rd December 06:52
I have Lee's and Cokins. The Cokin filters aren't very good, and are too small. I use a 5dmk2, and because of the size of the Cokins i can only hand hold them, and not use the holder! However, i'm glad i have them, as i dont care how they are treated, and i can use them in any situation. The Lee's i am a lot more careful over. I barely use them when not using a tripod, and am unlikely to use them if they will get dirty/wet. Dropping one is also not a good moment! (
).
So i say get a good set, and a cheap set. Or just start with a cheap set and see how you get on.
).So i say get a good set, and a cheap set. Or just start with a cheap set and see how you get on.
ChipsAndCheese said:
Thanks for the very informative replies.
Rob, body is a crop (Nikon D5100) and current lenses are 18-55 kit lens, 18-270, 55-200 and 35mm prime. I would probably be mostly using the kit lens at this stage but would like to add a wider lens to the collection in future.
One says wide angle, the other standard, but the filters seem to be the same size and the holder kits don't appear to be any different either, from what I can tell.
Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
Just noticed this thread so apologies if I'm a bit late to the party. Just a quick word of caution, on your kit lens, the front element rotates during focussing. Though you can still use grads, it does make your work flow a little trickier. You'll be fine on your other lens though. Rob, body is a crop (Nikon D5100) and current lenses are 18-55 kit lens, 18-270, 55-200 and 35mm prime. I would probably be mostly using the kit lens at this stage but would like to add a wider lens to the collection in future.
One says wide angle, the other standard, but the filters seem to be the same size and the holder kits don't appear to be any different either, from what I can tell.
Mark, would a 2 stop soft cover me for most scenarios? Is that the best option for sunrise and sunset shots?
The wide angle and standard adaptor thing. The adaptor screws to your lens and the filter kit fits to thee adaptor. Basically the standard adaptors are usually a ring of plastic with an aluminium thread pressed into the centre. They protrude a few mm's in front of the lens and then the filter holders sit in front of this. At really wide angles you could find light is blocked in the corners as a result. The wide angle adaptors are usually machined from a solid piece of aluminium (hence the increased cost) and effectively sit the filter holders flush with the front the lens and so less light is blocked in the corners on wide angles. On a crop camera, you're probably safe with a standard holder for most applications with any focal length above about 18mm, maybe even less. For what it's worth, I totally agree that a 100mm filter is a worth while investment. It covers you for almost any future scenario, unless you start messing around with large format or a Nikon 14-24!
On the subject of which grads to go with. I followed Mark's advice and have kept things to a minimum. I used to have a 3 stop soft and a 3 stop hard pair of hitechs. I now just have one 2.5 stop Hard Lee and find it covers me for most scenarios. I didn't find the soft grads much use for anything in particular, particularly the less dense ones.
For sunrise and sunset shots, you could consider a reverse grad. The dark part is in the centre of the filter so that you can position it on the horizon where the sun is. I've not used one but again I think Mark might have some good insight.
Whilst appreciating they are at the budget end of the market, what are Kood like?.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310514160479?ssPageName=...
I'm thinking of getting a set, they would be paired with a 550D and the kit lens, so no worries about wide angle issues I'd expect?.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310514160479?ssPageName=...
I'm thinking of getting a set, they would be paired with a 550D and the kit lens, so no worries about wide angle issues I'd expect?.
85mm filters will be fine on the 18-55 kit lens.
Kood hardware is ok, skip the filters buy hitech.
Still think your better off with a 3 stop hard, 3 stop soft and no holder , just hand hold the filter.
Unless you want long exposures, then get a 3 stop or 10 stop ND and a holder (or use blutack).
Kood hardware is ok, skip the filters buy hitech.
Still think your better off with a 3 stop hard, 3 stop soft and no holder , just hand hold the filter.
Unless you want long exposures, then get a 3 stop or 10 stop ND and a holder (or use blutack).
I started with 85mm Cokin and Kood which were fine as long as you didn't stack more than one when you got a nasty magenta cast... if I was doing it all again I wouldnt waste my money on them
Switching to Lee 100mm was probably the best money I've spent on camera gear... no vignetting and no colour cast. Granted Lee stuff is expensive to start out with but at least if you start with Hitech 100mm stuff then you can easily add Lee filters later if you want to.
Switching to Lee 100mm was probably the best money I've spent on camera gear... no vignetting and no colour cast. Granted Lee stuff is expensive to start out with but at least if you start with Hitech 100mm stuff then you can easily add Lee filters later if you want to.
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