996 turbo road/track toy?
Discussion
hi i have been building a 944 turbo track car for the last 6 months, i was building a track focused car, fully stripped, big turbo etc etc, but work has got so busy i just dont see me getting a chance to finish it, and my aim was to be on track next season.
i have come to the conclusion i have far to many toys and projects and so im going to have a bit of a clearout. i currently have the 944 turbo, a 944 lux, bmw 635csi, caterham 7 and a mk1 escort. all of them in various stages of rebuild/refresh etc. i intend over the next few months to get them all tied up and sold, and to condense down to one nice car that i can use and get me on track. i have also always wanted a 911 turbo, so this could be my chance! especially with prices very reasonable atm!
i am seriously considering a 996 turbo manual, which i would probably turn into a clubsport sort of spec car with a bit of weight reduction, and a bolt in rollcage/bucket seats etc. i would like the car to be a track car, but still be able to use it at the weekends etc, so i wont be going crazy stripping it to hell and back, but just a few choice mods to make it a bit more track focused.
people with experience of driving 996 turbo on track, what would you say was the area the car was most wanting, how is the car on track straight out the box, would it benefit from suspension upgrades or is it pretty good out the box??
to begin with i would look to get a dms remap, and make the exhaust a bit more free flowing and throaty, which should give 500 odd bhp which should b plenty to get started with
also when looking for a potential car, what are the main things to look out for, and the expensive repairs etc. i can carry out all mechanicals myself, so more worried about parts costs rather than labour.
any info and advise much appriceated
nick
i have come to the conclusion i have far to many toys and projects and so im going to have a bit of a clearout. i currently have the 944 turbo, a 944 lux, bmw 635csi, caterham 7 and a mk1 escort. all of them in various stages of rebuild/refresh etc. i intend over the next few months to get them all tied up and sold, and to condense down to one nice car that i can use and get me on track. i have also always wanted a 911 turbo, so this could be my chance! especially with prices very reasonable atm!
i am seriously considering a 996 turbo manual, which i would probably turn into a clubsport sort of spec car with a bit of weight reduction, and a bolt in rollcage/bucket seats etc. i would like the car to be a track car, but still be able to use it at the weekends etc, so i wont be going crazy stripping it to hell and back, but just a few choice mods to make it a bit more track focused.
people with experience of driving 996 turbo on track, what would you say was the area the car was most wanting, how is the car on track straight out the box, would it benefit from suspension upgrades or is it pretty good out the box??
to begin with i would look to get a dms remap, and make the exhaust a bit more free flowing and throaty, which should give 500 odd bhp which should b plenty to get started with
also when looking for a potential car, what are the main things to look out for, and the expensive repairs etc. i can carry out all mechanicals myself, so more worried about parts costs rather than labour.
any info and advise much appriceated
nick
Personally I think 996 turbos are a great amazing road car that you could use on the odd trackday. I wouldn't want to build a dedicated trackday one though as I imagine it would be become boring unless deploying 500hp along the straights is your bag. They will also be hard on tyres and brakes. Something lighter and 2wd would be my choice, although each to their own.
i am a fan of rwd cars on track like others have said they are more fun when driving hard. what sort of power/torque split do the 996 turbo have to the rear wheels?
as said this wont be an out and out track car, but something i can use on road and track, it doesnt have to be the fastest thing round a track in the world, as its not a race, just about having fun really! and then having a nice car to go on evening/weekend blasts.
i would love a gt3 and i agree its a much more focused track car, but unforetunetly at the minute they are out of my price range! the turbo gives great performance and a more usable car on the road, at a sensible price. my budget for a 996 is about the 20k mark, whereas the cheapest mk1 gt3s are nearer 30-35k!!
a carrera 2 although rwd to me isnt quite quick enough, so the turbo gives me that extra performance i want over an n/a 911. the perfect car for me would be a gt2 but again your looking at 45k+ so thats out of the question!
what are the characteristics of the standard 911 turbo when pushing hard? and how can you create a more involved drive from the 4wd point and squirt style that i imagine they probably have? i have driven some very quick 600/700hp evos, and they will get you round the track extremley quickly but without much drama. i certainly prefer a 4wd system that gives the majority of power to the rear wheels, with a small amount of help at the front when needed.
i am not a fan of 50/50 torque split 4wd systems that just create terrible understeer!
thanks again
nick
as said this wont be an out and out track car, but something i can use on road and track, it doesnt have to be the fastest thing round a track in the world, as its not a race, just about having fun really! and then having a nice car to go on evening/weekend blasts.
i would love a gt3 and i agree its a much more focused track car, but unforetunetly at the minute they are out of my price range! the turbo gives great performance and a more usable car on the road, at a sensible price. my budget for a 996 is about the 20k mark, whereas the cheapest mk1 gt3s are nearer 30-35k!!
a carrera 2 although rwd to me isnt quite quick enough, so the turbo gives me that extra performance i want over an n/a 911. the perfect car for me would be a gt2 but again your looking at 45k+ so thats out of the question!
what are the characteristics of the standard 911 turbo when pushing hard? and how can you create a more involved drive from the 4wd point and squirt style that i imagine they probably have? i have driven some very quick 600/700hp evos, and they will get you round the track extremley quickly but without much drama. i certainly prefer a 4wd system that gives the majority of power to the rear wheels, with a small amount of help at the front when needed.
i am not a fan of 50/50 torque split 4wd systems that just create terrible understeer!
thanks again
nick
If I were you I would call Ken from Nine Excellence. He will help you with guidance for max value vs your budget. They can be great road / track toys. The purer track stuff is really only for track and useless on road. But if you want both, you will be having fun with one of Ken's hybrid packages along sups/brakes and his road/track GEO.
Curious to hear what direction you take, drop us a few updates on how you are getting along.
Curious to hear what direction you take, drop us a few updates on how you are getting along.
the only other option i may consider is after reading an article in total 911 about an engine build that autofarm offer which increases a 3.6 c2- 3.9 putting out 380bhp ish. if i could find a cheap c2 with a blown engine for £5/6k?? then install this engine i could end up under budget and have a car with the same power output as a gt3 for a lot less money?
thoughts??
thoughts??
nickson said:
people with experience of driving 996 turbo on track, what would you say was the area the car was most wanting, how is the car on track straight out the box, would it benefit from suspension upgrades or is it pretty good out the box??
My 996tt is great on track as it is, im no hardcore track driver but I do give it my all and I have no complaints, its a blindingly fast car. Brakes are its weakest area IMO, followed by the fact it doesnt make enough noise 
Is it exciting... yes and no, its not a patch on my tuscan for putting the fear of god into you, there is definitely a thrill missing in that respect. Ideally I would have gone for a rwd 911 but the IMS stuff scared me and a GT3 is out of my price range (one day though). The only answer that seemed to make sense was the turbo.
Ultimately there's no sense of danger in the turbo and I do miss that, its all a bit easy, even the PSM can't be turned off properly
nickson said:
the only other option i may consider is after reading an article in total 911 about an engine build that autofarm offer which increases a 3.6 c2- 3.9 putting out 380bhp ish. if i could find a cheap c2 with a blown engine for £5/6k?? then install this engine i could end up under budget and have a car with the same power output as a gt3 for a lot less money?
thoughts??
That sounds like a great plan. You won't increase the value by as much as you'll spend once you start modifying it (but that's true of any such project) but you'll have it just how you want and they do go well round the track. I took my 996 C2 (PSM was an option on later cars, traction control was the earlier option - most cars had neither) round Oulton Park for the first time a few weeks ago and was surprised how well it went - I even passed a BTCC driver (Paul O'Neill) in a full blown race car thoughts??
Mine has standard 3.4 engine (upgraded IMS fitted though), PSE (noisy exhaust) K&N airfilter and upgraded springs & dampers.Finding the blown-engine car may your biggest challenge though...
also just found out the 996tt doesnt have an lsd?? im not a fan of 1 wheel spinning up on exits of slow corners! do the c2 have an lsd??
think i need to have a drive of a c2 and a turbo, but one thing i certainly dont want is the brakes doing there own thing, i prefer to drive the car myself rather than have a computer doing it for me, and on the limit controlling oversteer etc, the last thing you want is the car stopping it and putting you completley out of control or promote further understeer!
i drove an e63amg with the stability control/traction control on, and it was the most frustrating boring thing i have ever driven. on exits of corners it may aswell have been a 160bhp diesel it was limiting power so much! only once the wheel was straight would it give you full power, and for me that isnt driving, as all i had to do was steer the car my throttle input was totally ignored!
think i need to have a drive of a c2 and a turbo, but one thing i certainly dont want is the brakes doing there own thing, i prefer to drive the car myself rather than have a computer doing it for me, and on the limit controlling oversteer etc, the last thing you want is the car stopping it and putting you completley out of control or promote further understeer!
i drove an e63amg with the stability control/traction control on, and it was the most frustrating boring thing i have ever driven. on exits of corners it may aswell have been a 160bhp diesel it was limiting power so much! only once the wheel was straight would it give you full power, and for me that isnt driving, as all i had to do was steer the car my throttle input was totally ignored!
It sounds like maybe you haven't driven a 911 very much - it'll take some doing to lift and spin a rear wheel, it's a world away from a Merc or BMW due to all the weight being over the wheels. LSD was an option, part of the Sports Chassis package on C2's but I wouldn't get hung up on having one unless you're building a track-only on race car. I know Oulton very well, have raced Porsches there since 2005 (and won quite a few times!) and on a warm October day when properly going for it (although in 2/3 lap spurts as it's on standard brakes which I didn't want to fully overheat) I don't recall it ever breaking traction.
Hi,
The 996 turbo is a fantastic car with a very reliable engine/gearbox.
You need to find a decent car to start with as these can cost serious money to keep on the road let alone a track.
Try and get one that has had the major 4 year service recently (£600)
Radiators are a sore point on turbo models too, see if they have been done in last few years.
Turbo waste gates can seize up, also the turbo heatshields can seriously corrode and rattle.
See if it has ever had a clutch, i would personally not go for an uprated clutch for anything below 550bhp as the pressure plate puts excessive force on the bellhousing where the clutch release bearing fork support pins pulls against. Seen a few break this casting area and all had uprated clutches fitted.
Get the car inspected by a good Porsche specialist as it will save your ££££
As for the track usage, brakes and suspension are going to need some attention.
From experience although not in a turbo (Gt3) I think you should put some Pagid RS29 pads in and see how you get on with the brakes, if struggling then change the front calipers and discs for 6pot GT3 gear.
Suspension wise, if dampers and springs ok then I would get some 996GT3 front lower split suspension arms as this allows you to shim the lower arm out to get more front end negative camber. Get some rear adjustable track rods and then you can fine tune the wheel alignment. On a Turbo they will go pretty well with -2.2 degrees all round. Not in GT3 zone like someone said earlier in this post. Don't think that by buying a C2 and having a 3.9l upgrade that it will be th same as a Gt3, trust me I have seen this on track. A Gt3 is a fantastic machine and the amount of punishment they can take is unreal!
If you need any further information let me know.
Mike
The 996 turbo is a fantastic car with a very reliable engine/gearbox.
You need to find a decent car to start with as these can cost serious money to keep on the road let alone a track.
Try and get one that has had the major 4 year service recently (£600)
Radiators are a sore point on turbo models too, see if they have been done in last few years.
Turbo waste gates can seize up, also the turbo heatshields can seriously corrode and rattle.
See if it has ever had a clutch, i would personally not go for an uprated clutch for anything below 550bhp as the pressure plate puts excessive force on the bellhousing where the clutch release bearing fork support pins pulls against. Seen a few break this casting area and all had uprated clutches fitted.
Get the car inspected by a good Porsche specialist as it will save your ££££
As for the track usage, brakes and suspension are going to need some attention.
From experience although not in a turbo (Gt3) I think you should put some Pagid RS29 pads in and see how you get on with the brakes, if struggling then change the front calipers and discs for 6pot GT3 gear.
Suspension wise, if dampers and springs ok then I would get some 996GT3 front lower split suspension arms as this allows you to shim the lower arm out to get more front end negative camber. Get some rear adjustable track rods and then you can fine tune the wheel alignment. On a Turbo they will go pretty well with -2.2 degrees all round. Not in GT3 zone like someone said earlier in this post. Don't think that by buying a C2 and having a 3.9l upgrade that it will be th same as a Gt3, trust me I have seen this on track. A Gt3 is a fantastic machine and the amount of punishment they can take is unreal!
If you need any further information let me know.
Mike
Driving my c4s (similar / same chassis breaks as the turbo - I know it is a fair bit less powerful) on the road was generally fine even when pushing on. Once I took it on the track it was obvious fairly soon that it was lacking in the suspension / breaks department. I was shocked how Lardy and unweilding it felt. The breaks went off fairly quickly and fading was an issue ( pad change could help of course) as mentioned above suspension would defo need some attention also. Later in the day i went in a mates gt3 and this was a night and day experience. now i know the turbo has got more power but on smaller circuits this would surely exacerbate these issues? fyi my c4s is 30k miler with x51 breaks and suspension recently all checked out and ok. You definitely need to try a turbo on track before spending any of your hard earned !
nickson said:
what are the characteristics of the standard 911 turbo when pushing hard? and how can you create a more involved drive from the 4wd point and squirt style that i imagine they probably have? i have driven some very quick 600/700hp evos, and they will get you round the track extremley quickly but without much drama. i certainly prefer a 4wd system that gives the majority of power to the rear wheels, with a small amount of help at the front when needed.
i am not a fan of 50/50 torque split 4wd systems that just create terrible understeer!
thanks again
nick
996 turbo is 95% to the rear, until front starts slipping when it will send up to 40% to the front.i am not a fan of 50/50 torque split 4wd systems that just create terrible understeer!
thanks again
nick
No 50:50 splits here! ALWAYS predominantly RWD
nickson said:
hmmm, not to keen on the fact the psm cant be turned off! is there a way around this? hate traction control/stability control systems.
I believe there is something you can unplug in the boot that will completely disable PSM but has the side effect of disabling ABS. I can't remember where I came across that info now and havent tested its accuracy. It would be interesting if anyone else here has any info on this as I'd really like to drop that PSM.sportsandclassic said:
Hi,
The 996 turbo is a fantastic car with a very reliable engine/gearbox.
You need to find a decent car to start with as these can cost serious money to keep on the road let alone a track.
Try and get one that has had the major 4 year service recently (£600)
Radiators are a sore point on turbo models too, see if they have been done in last few years.
Turbo waste gates can seize up, also the turbo heatshields can seriously corrode and rattle.
See if it has ever had a clutch, i would personally not go for an uprated clutch for anything below 550bhp as the pressure plate puts excessive force on the bellhousing where the clutch release bearing fork support pins pulls against. Seen a few break this casting area and all had uprated clutches fitted.
Get the car inspected by a good Porsche specialist as it will save your ££££
As for the track usage, brakes and suspension are going to need some attention.
From experience although not in a turbo (Gt3) I think you should put some Pagid RS29 pads in and see how you get on with the brakes, if struggling then change the front calipers and discs for 6pot GT3 gear.
Suspension wise, if dampers and springs ok then I would get some 996GT3 front lower split suspension arms as this allows you to shim the lower arm out to get more front end negative camber. Get some rear adjustable track rods and then you can fine tune the wheel alignment. On a Turbo they will go pretty well with -2.2 degrees all round. Not in GT3 zone like someone said earlier in this post. Don't think that by buying a C2 and having a 3.9l upgrade that it will be th same as a Gt3, trust me I have seen this on track. A Gt3 is a fantastic machine and the amount of punishment they can take is unreal!
If you need any further information let me know.
Mike
Spot on! +1The 996 turbo is a fantastic car with a very reliable engine/gearbox.
You need to find a decent car to start with as these can cost serious money to keep on the road let alone a track.
Try and get one that has had the major 4 year service recently (£600)
Radiators are a sore point on turbo models too, see if they have been done in last few years.
Turbo waste gates can seize up, also the turbo heatshields can seriously corrode and rattle.
See if it has ever had a clutch, i would personally not go for an uprated clutch for anything below 550bhp as the pressure plate puts excessive force on the bellhousing where the clutch release bearing fork support pins pulls against. Seen a few break this casting area and all had uprated clutches fitted.
Get the car inspected by a good Porsche specialist as it will save your ££££
As for the track usage, brakes and suspension are going to need some attention.
From experience although not in a turbo (Gt3) I think you should put some Pagid RS29 pads in and see how you get on with the brakes, if struggling then change the front calipers and discs for 6pot GT3 gear.
Suspension wise, if dampers and springs ok then I would get some 996GT3 front lower split suspension arms as this allows you to shim the lower arm out to get more front end negative camber. Get some rear adjustable track rods and then you can fine tune the wheel alignment. On a Turbo they will go pretty well with -2.2 degrees all round. Not in GT3 zone like someone said earlier in this post. Don't think that by buying a C2 and having a 3.9l upgrade that it will be th same as a Gt3, trust me I have seen this on track. A Gt3 is a fantastic machine and the amount of punishment they can take is unreal!
If you need any further information let me know.
Mike
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