I got dropped right in it - help!

[RobbieKB]

Right so I was at a wedding yesterday. A nice, rather low key affair in a fairly average location. It gets to about 8pm and the (very good) wedding photographer they booked has some sort of crisis and made a swift departure. Not a problem really as they disco wasn't really a big thing, just more background music. It gets to 8:50pm and st, shock, horror, they're having their first dance in 10 minutes without a photographer. The best man who happens to be the older brother of my best mate and a fan of my photography pipes up that I have my camera in my car and I'll do it - don't panic Mr and Mrs.

So, I'm up sts creek. I have 10 minutes to prepare, I've turned down numerous offers to do weddings because I don't consider myself strong enough yet and my kit is limited to say the least.

550D
430EX II
50mm 1.8 (£80 jobby).

No bounce cards, soft boxes, remotes, tripods, off-camera flashes and as if that wasn't enough of a st Sunday, I had about 8 minutes to figure out the settings in a dreadful location with horrible backdrops. I had a few different angles available for a full body shot and that was staring right at the gormless DJ and some cheap disco lights, a wall with a picture that would (and did) reflect my flash which I ended up opting for, or a backdrop of people and more problematically, 20-30 glass windows in huge double doors.

Anyway, I really wouldn't want to let the couple down and despite me making myriad photographic errors, I was wondering if someone my Photoshop superior had any ideas on what to do with this:

Original:



My quick effort:



My effort is too highly structured, sloppily cloned and a bit contrasty - I know that don't worry but rather than fix it I thought I'd ask how people thought I should approach this. The original shot is woeful and an embarrassment to me but I was against it from the off really!

Feel free to PM me for full size original or whatever.

[LongQ]

RobbieKB said:

It gets to about 8pm and the (very good) wedding photographer they booked has some sort of crisis and made a swift departure.

I rather suspect that there is more to this crisis than one observed at the time.

Do you have any possibility of getting away with a subsequent crisis? "Utterly corrupt memory card, such bad luck but ...." comes to mind. A bit late now of course. You have already gone public.

[RobbieKB]

LongQ said:

RobbieKB said:

It gets to about 8pm and the (very good) wedding photographer they booked has some sort of crisis and made a swift departure.

I rather suspect that there is more to this crisis than one observed at the time.

Do you have any possibility of getting away with a subsequent crisis? "Utterly corrupt memory card, such bad luck but ...." comes to mind. A bit late now of course. You have already gone public.

Quite possibly LongQ.

No, if only. I've got several people asking to see them and they know I've got them. The thing that irritates me is that I come out of this pretty badly either way. I couldn't manage a good shot and to be honest, it would have taken huge amounts of preparation to get one in the conditions it was in. I'm not sure what to do to be honest. If the shots of the first dance were shots of an ordinary dance of no significance I would have deleted them without a millisecond hesitation.

[rhinochopig]

I'd be tempted to see what a white background looks like. I've done a few similar pics for parties and Christenings in the past and a white background tends to look nicer when you're removing clutter. You might have to fiddle with local area contrast so as not to lose the dress though, but it will help with the veil which looks odd at the moment. You might improve it by moving your masque out a couple of pixels, but I suspect a white background will help. I also think you've gone too far with the whole picture contrast fiddling. Wind it back a touch.

You should also remove her her back fat roll over the dress and clone out the mole and spots on her arms. It's her wedding day after all and she'll want to look perfect.

[RobbieKB]

rhinochopig said:

I'd be tempted to see what a white background looks like. I've done a few similar pics for parties and Christenings in the past and a white background tends to look nicer when you're removing clutter. You might have to fiddle with local area contrast so as not to lose the dress though, but it will help with the veil which looks odd at the moment. You might improve it by moving your masque out a couple of pixels, but I suspect a white background will help. I also think you've gone too far with the whole picture contrast fiddling. Wind it back a touch.

You should also remove her her back fat roll over the dress and clone out the mole and spots on her arms. It's her wedding day after all and she'll want to look perfect.

Absolutely. It was a 5 min jobby and I looked at it, sighed and posted on here. I'm not sure how I should approach a white background without entirely losing the veil and her dress etc. I'll have another play.

I hate having to put this much effort in to a shot in PP. It's inevitably a glaring sign that the shot is total st, which it is!

[Simpo Two]

If that's all you have to work with then I think you've got the general idea - straighten it up and mask out the b/g. As you say you've blown the highlights and made the whole thing too contrasty, no excuse for that in PP; go back and do it properly! More work cutting out the veil but you know that. You could trying cropping the lower left of the dress to make a tighter composition.

The best way to avoid reflections in mirrors etc is (1) anticipate; failing this then (2) often you'll see them glint in the viewfinder as the pre-flash fires just before the mirror goes up (well it does on my set-up anyway) (3) your camera has a monitor; use it. If you see an ugly reflection move to one side a little - think snooker ball off a cushion. If the rest of the background is good, small flashes can be cloned out. It may also explain the underexposure.

I think I'd have tried the other b/gs, namely the disco lights and the people. Position is everything; a piece of wall doesn't really set the atmosphere. The good news is that you did it with no notice, for free, and you did your best. They can hardly complain

RobbieKB said:

I'm not sure how I should approach a white background without entirely losing the veil and her dress etc.

The key is in how you mask/select it. Treat the couple and the b/g as separate areas.

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 28th October 17:57

[LongQ]

RobbieKB said:

LongQ said:

RobbieKB said:

It gets to about 8pm and the (very good) wedding photographer they booked has some sort of crisis and made a swift departure.

I rather suspect that there is more to this crisis than one observed at the time.

Do you have any possibility of getting away with a subsequent crisis? "Utterly corrupt memory card, such bad luck but ...." comes to mind. A bit late now of course. You have already gone public.

Quite possibly LongQ.

No, if only. I've got several people asking to see them and they know I've got them. The thing that irritates me is that I come out of this pretty badly either way. I couldn't manage a good shot and to be honest, it would have taken huge amounts of preparation to get one in the conditions it was in. I'm not sure what to do to be honest. If the shots of the first dance were shots of an ordinary dance of no significance I would have deleted them without a millisecond hesitation.

Oh dear.

Try sepia (ish) and soft?

Add a texture?

You have reminded me why I steer very wide of anything to do with weddings.

Where is Simpo when you need him?

Best I can suggest is that you deploy delaying tactics and hope that people soon forget you were even there. They probably can't remember much that they ar certain about anyway. Persuade them that you were not there and they are imagining things and you are home free. Suggest hst the venue put LSD in he water or something. Anything will do ....

[rhinochopig]

RobbieKB said:

rhinochopig said:

I'd be tempted to see what a white background looks like. I've done a few similar pics for parties and Christenings in the past and a white background tends to look nicer when you're removing clutter. You might have to fiddle with local area contrast so as not to lose the dress though, but it will help with the veil which looks odd at the moment. You might improve it by moving your masque out a couple of pixels, but I suspect a white background will help. I also think you've gone too far with the whole picture contrast fiddling. Wind it back a touch.

You should also remove her her back fat roll over the dress and clone out the mole and spots on her arms. It's her wedding day after all and she'll want to look perfect.

Absolutely. It was a 5 min jobby and I looked at it, sighed and posted on here. I'm not sure how I should approach a white background without entirely losing the veil and her dress etc. I'll have another play.

I hate having to put this much effort in to a shot in PP. It's inevitably a glaring sign that the shot is total st, which it is!

You'd be surprised how effective it can be even with a white subject. For example, flesh is essentially white in B&W Photography and you require just the slightest hint of shadow to give form and shape.

For example in this pic, it's a white dress against a white background and the shape and form of the dress are still easily seen.

[RobbieKB]

Simpo Two said:

If that's all you have to work with then I think you've got the general idea - straighten it up and mask out the b/g. As you say you've blown the highlights and made the whole thing too contrasty, no excuse for that in PP; go back and do it properly! More work cutting out the veil but you know that. You could trying cropping the lower left of the dress to make a tighter composition.

The best way to avoid reflections in mirrors etc is (1) anticipate; failing this then (2) often you'll see them glint in the viewfinder as the pre-flash fires just before the mirror goes up (well it does on my set-up anyway) (3) your camera has a monitor; use it. If you see an ugly reflection move to one side a little - think snooker ball off a cushion. If the rest of the background is good, small flashes can be cloned out. It may also explain the underexposure.

I think I'd have tried the other b/gs, namely the disco lights and the people. Position is everything; a piece of wall doesn't really set the atmosphere. The good news is that you did it with no notice, for free, and you did your best. They can hardly complain

Honestly, if it was my gig I would have had people in a semi-circle as a backdrop, a couple of off-camera remote flashes and the correct lens for the job. My primary concern was getting a shot passably sharp.

Yeah I know they can't really but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to things that matter and although it's a little childish, I'm irritated I'm having to provide something hugely sub-par, albeit for free.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[RobbieKB]

rhinochopig said:

You'd be surprised how effective it can be even with a white subject. For example, flesh is essentially white in B&W Photography and you require just the slightest hint of shadow to give form and shape.

For example in this pic, it's a white dress against a white background and the shape and form of the dress are still easily seen.

I like that and it works but I can't help feel like youhad that in mind when shooting

So do you propose where my background is black I make it white and then use a tighter crop and lose the floor? I like the detail in the bottom half of the dress and the floor gives it some sort of indication that it's their first dance so I guess you mean keep the crop as is. I'll give it a punt. Thank you again.

[rhinochopig]

RobbieKB said:

rhinochopig said:

You'd be surprised how effective it can be even with a white subject. For example, flesh is essentially white in B&W Photography and you require just the slightest hint of shadow to give form and shape.

For example in this pic, it's a white dress against a white background and the shape and form of the dress are still easily seen.

I like that and it works but I can't help feel like youhad that in mind when shooting

So do you propose where my background is black I make it white and then use a tighter crop and lose the floor? I like the detail in the bottom half of the dress and the floor gives it some sort of indication that it's their first dance so I guess you mean keep the crop as is. I'll give it a punt. Thank you again.

Not my picture; it was a google search for an example.

I'd keep the floor under them and to the sides but fade it out to white. I'd have the background white too, but perhaps pick up some of the background detail that touches the couple so it's not a brutal masque. You can get some 'nice' - as in recover from some dreadful pics - by dodge / burning out the background to white / black to lose the crap that spoils the picture. It's hard to describe without giving an example and most of mine are off mates kids or my own and, for obvious reasons, am reluctant to post them on a public forum.

[Simpo Two]

Ultimately one of the great challenges of weddings is using your skill and judgement to get the best with what you find in front of you. It's not a studio shoot and you have little or no control of the environment. Therefore, if you are looking at a grim situation, you're largely buggered at the outset. You can only photograph what is there - but use your skill and experience to find the best angle.

[rhinochopig]

OP Here's a very very quick example of what I mean - and I've rushed around the couple so gone over the edges a bit. I've used a white airbrush and I didn't use a masque which I would if taking some time. I'd also use dodge rather than white air brush as it takes longer but gives a better effect close in. Obviously you'd need to sort out the picture / veil area and the lighten up between their heads, but you get the idea.

I changed to B&W, sorted out the B&W levels - way too much black and not enough white.

Then played with the curves.

[Simpo Two]

How many PHers are thinking 'I bet she'd look good with alloy wheels'?

[LongQ]

Simpo Two said:

How many PHers are thinking 'I bet she'd look good with alloy wheels'?

In all honesty that had not crossed my mind.

More pertinently my mood has been somewhat lifted by the realisation that others face bigger problems than I. And through no fault of their own other than being helpful.


FWIW.

[RobbieKB]

LongQ said:

Simpo Two said:

How many PHers are thinking 'I bet she'd look good with alloy wheels'?

In all honesty that had not crossed my mind.

More pertinently my mood has been somewhat lifted by the realisation that others face bigger problems than I. And through no fault of their own other than being helpful.


FWIW.

Sods .

[Dogsey]

Robbie, I know it's of no use now but should this happen to you again point the flash up and bounce off the ceiling, it'll give a much better light.

[RobbieKB]

Dogsey said:

Robbie, I know it's of no use now but should this happen to you again point the flash up and bounce off the ceiling, it'll give a much better light.

I did Mike but I think I could have done with 200 ISO and the flash facing the ceiling even more directly than I did.

[andy-xr]

That flash reflection would be easy to get rid of, I think I'd leave it in colour, maybe increase the overall exposure a tad, and with another (inverted) curves layer drop the background to something darker. Just use a layer mask and a small'ish brush for the detail. It'll be more true-to-life than plonking them onto an imaginary white backdrop which may get more questions asked.

I'm not sure where the blue is coming from o the far side of the groom, guessing ambient, but I think you could get away with that.

The thing with going B&W is, it needs to be lit differently. Just making it B&W isnt going to help it, the tones are different.

It's definitely rescuable into something less turdy, and in any event will probably be looked at differently to how you're seeing it. People want to see themselves looking good on the whole

[dudleybloke]