Heroes of the Skies - C5
Discussion
Does appear to have been done on a low budget. Researchers have in some instances got facts wrong and lots of film clips used have been totally incorrect. Some clips are used twice but reversed showing a 180 degree change in direction! Still like to watch anything to do with aircraft so will try to ignore the inaccuracies.
For example the first programme was about Douglas Bader. Although fully researched and documented they missed out the fact that he was shot down by another Spitfire rather than a german aircraft. Even the name of the pilot is on record. You only need to use Google or Wikipedia to find this info so any researcher worth their salt should find it easily.
"None of the German pilots who made a claim for an aerial victory that day could match their report with the demise of Bader's Spitfire. Adolf Galland, Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 26 (JG 26 or Fighter Wing 26), went through every report, even those of German pilots killed in the action, to determine Bader's victor. Each case was dismissed. Kosse's claim only matches the victory against No. 452 Squadron RAF's Sergeant Haydon.
More recently, in 2003 air historian Andy Saunders wrote a book Bader's Last Flight, following up with a Channel 4 documentary Who Downed Douglas Bader?, which first aired on 28 August 2006. Saunders' research now suggests that Bader may have been a victim of friendly fire, shot down by one of his fellow RAF pilots after becoming detached from his own squadron. RAF combat records indicate Bader may have been shot down by F/L "Buck" Casson of No. 616 Squadron RAF, who claimed a Bf 109 whose tail came off and the pilot bailed out, before he himself was shot down and captured. Casson also mentioned that for a while he watched as the pilot struggled to bail out. Bader was flying at the rear of the German fighter formation, alone, and his squadron were the opposite side of the Germans. "Buck" had only a few seconds in which he saw Bader and mistook his Spitfire for a Bf 109. In a letter to Bader on 28 May 1945, Casson explained the action. While this source made it into the public domain, it was severely edited. The nature of the letter, that it was from Casson to Bader, was removed. Crucially, an entire paragraph, which mentioned specifically the tail coming off "a Bf 109" and the pilot struggling to get out of the cockpit, was completely omitted from the original source, still in the Casson family's possession. Saunders stated that this was not absolute proof, and that it would be helpful to find the "Bader Spitfire".
Search for W3185The quest to find Bader's Spitfire, W3185, shed light on the demise of another famous wartime ace, Wilhelm Balthasar, Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 2, who was killed in action on 3 July 1941 when his Bf 109F crashed into Ferme Goset, Wittes, France. It was recovered in March 2004. Later, in the summer 2004, a further aircraft was discovered in Widdebrouch. It was found to be that of a Bf 109F, flown by Unteroffizier Albert Schlager of JG 26, who was reported missing during Bader's last combat on 9 August 1941.A brief glimpse of hope was discovered later, when a Spitfire wreck was found. Inside was a flying helmet with the letters "DB" written on the top. It was later identified as a Spitfire IX, owing to the findings of a 20mm cannon (which Bader's Spitfire did not have), and ammunition dated as 1943.During the hunt, Donald Caldwell, an American historian of JG 26 took part. He stated that it was very unlikely that Bader was shot down by a German pilot and it was likely he was claimed by an RAF fighter in error."
For example the first programme was about Douglas Bader. Although fully researched and documented they missed out the fact that he was shot down by another Spitfire rather than a german aircraft. Even the name of the pilot is on record. You only need to use Google or Wikipedia to find this info so any researcher worth their salt should find it easily.
"None of the German pilots who made a claim for an aerial victory that day could match their report with the demise of Bader's Spitfire. Adolf Galland, Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 26 (JG 26 or Fighter Wing 26), went through every report, even those of German pilots killed in the action, to determine Bader's victor. Each case was dismissed. Kosse's claim only matches the victory against No. 452 Squadron RAF's Sergeant Haydon.
More recently, in 2003 air historian Andy Saunders wrote a book Bader's Last Flight, following up with a Channel 4 documentary Who Downed Douglas Bader?, which first aired on 28 August 2006. Saunders' research now suggests that Bader may have been a victim of friendly fire, shot down by one of his fellow RAF pilots after becoming detached from his own squadron. RAF combat records indicate Bader may have been shot down by F/L "Buck" Casson of No. 616 Squadron RAF, who claimed a Bf 109 whose tail came off and the pilot bailed out, before he himself was shot down and captured. Casson also mentioned that for a while he watched as the pilot struggled to bail out. Bader was flying at the rear of the German fighter formation, alone, and his squadron were the opposite side of the Germans. "Buck" had only a few seconds in which he saw Bader and mistook his Spitfire for a Bf 109. In a letter to Bader on 28 May 1945, Casson explained the action. While this source made it into the public domain, it was severely edited. The nature of the letter, that it was from Casson to Bader, was removed. Crucially, an entire paragraph, which mentioned specifically the tail coming off "a Bf 109" and the pilot struggling to get out of the cockpit, was completely omitted from the original source, still in the Casson family's possession. Saunders stated that this was not absolute proof, and that it would be helpful to find the "Bader Spitfire".
Search for W3185The quest to find Bader's Spitfire, W3185, shed light on the demise of another famous wartime ace, Wilhelm Balthasar, Geschwaderkommodore of Jagdgeschwader 2, who was killed in action on 3 July 1941 when his Bf 109F crashed into Ferme Goset, Wittes, France. It was recovered in March 2004. Later, in the summer 2004, a further aircraft was discovered in Widdebrouch. It was found to be that of a Bf 109F, flown by Unteroffizier Albert Schlager of JG 26, who was reported missing during Bader's last combat on 9 August 1941.A brief glimpse of hope was discovered later, when a Spitfire wreck was found. Inside was a flying helmet with the letters "DB" written on the top. It was later identified as a Spitfire IX, owing to the findings of a 20mm cannon (which Bader's Spitfire did not have), and ammunition dated as 1943.During the hunt, Donald Caldwell, an American historian of JG 26 took part. He stated that it was very unlikely that Bader was shot down by a German pilot and it was likely he was claimed by an RAF fighter in error."
Edited by GJB on Friday 19th October 11:24
GJB said:
Does appear to have been done on a low budget. Researchers have in some instances got facts wrong and lots of film clips used have been totally incorrect. Some clips are used twice but reversed showing a 180 degree change in direction! Still like to watch anything to do with aircraft so will try to ignore the inaccuracies.
Well yes, and the speeds/distances were all wrong, as they usually are with CGI. But the content/story was good, and if not 100% perfect, a refreshing change from the Damn Busters and the BoB. Even on this forum, BOLO cropped up a while back and only me and one other knew what it was.With every generation of fighters, they think dogfighting is over, and they are always wrong!
Worth reading Wikipedia before you watch the programmes. Helps to `flesh` it out a bit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Gabreski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabby_Gabreski
Did anyone else notice the bog-eyed narrator tell us last week (Tuskegee airmen show) that the 332nd Fighter Group in Italy had lost a record number of B-17s and B-24s during July 1944? I thought I'd gone mad, so replayed it and that's what he said. Surely they were the bombers of the 15th Air Force?
Other than that I have quite enjoyed the shows. Looking forward to hearing about the exploits of some Axis pilot heroes before the series ends.
Other than that I have quite enjoyed the shows. Looking forward to hearing about the exploits of some Axis pilot heroes before the series ends.
Simpo Two said:
Just watched the episode on Robin Olds and Operation BOLO; very good.
Next week - Gabby Gabreski.
Recommended!
Robin Olds was a real legend.Next week - Gabby Gabreski.
Recommended!
I remember first reading about him back in the mid 1980's.
One of his original P-51D's from WW2 (Scat VII I think?) survived the war, and a few post war accidents and ended up being restored in the late 1990's (in two seat TF-51D configuration) and Olds followed the restoration personally, making frequent visits to see progress during it's rebirth.
I believe, once finished, and being in TF config. he got to fly it again.
Sadly, it was later desyroyed in a fatal crash in 2003.
I've also seen it reported that the Duxford based, airworthy F-86A Sabre had been flown by Olds during his early USAF jet career.
aeropilot said:
Robin Olds was a real legend.
And passed over for Korea because the top brass didn't approve of his style.This is good reading: www.amazon.com/Aces-Command-Fighter-Pilots-Leaders...
Interesting how the best fighter pilots are often deemed unsuitable for senior positions.
Simpo Two said:
If that was the series on VCs then I missed out on being one of the crew as I was on the phone when they tried to ring... arse and double arse!
This is the episode, enjoy.http://www.channel5.com/shows/heroes-of-the-skies/...
Stuck In A Lift said:
onyx39 said:
That was my ex's late Grandad that was (Norman Jackson V.C.)
A true hero.Stuck In A Lift said:
It was the one where the tail gunner was trapped and another crew member tried to free him. Eventually the latter had to jump but was killed, while the tail gunner eventually did get out somehow and survived. His story got the other guy a posthumous VC.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff