Asking for pay rise/career progression?
Discussion
This is perhaps a sensitive question for some and definitely one that I cannot discuss freely around the office. Hopefully fellow PHers will give some input regarding this - else it's just a chance for me to get some thigns of my chest...
It is coming to almost 2 years of me joining this company (well 1 year 7 months). It is not a big company but is well known in the industry and makes substantial profit year by year despite the difficult economic climate.
First of all, some pros about the company :
- Close commuting distance (save on fuel!)
- Fairly relaxed atmosphere - not much pressure if dont step on other people's toes etc
- Company expanding quickly (I would say almost 50% growth since I've joined)
- Freedom and flexibility in my work
- Most of my purchase requests approved :P
My role is a rather bespoke one but I would say fairly transferable within the industry with experience. I've joined at a "high junior level" due to experience at the time. I would say in terms of pay grade is it around 60% mark with 100% being the Directors.
All in all I must say it's fairly good working here. We have 2 salary/performance reviews per year - minor in June and major review just before Xmas. So far I have got a raise on both reviews. Very minor raise (still in same pay grade) but better than nothing.
I have been commended on all my work and have gone "above and beyond" duty to ensure the job gets done. So far so good but sometimes I wonder if it is possible to achieve more in terms of pay or position.I have done a quick research and fellow peers are earning on average 3-5k more per annum with matching level of experience. Again, as my role is a little bit specialised it's hard to get an accurate figure.
What I am thinking is to ask or maybe discuss a higher pay and maybe trying to move onto management or given a more senior role. I did ask during the interview about career progression and was told it is possible.
I guess the question is - is it too soon to ask for me? How would someone start asking or discussing this issue? My direct line manager is the Finance Director as we as yet have an IT director.
I would like to say I am very happy working here... it's just a voice in me wanting to progress further. In terms of options, the company does not have a direct senior role I could fill at the moment but that could change as my role was a new one in the company. So far I have never voiced a single word regarding pay/role. I just accept what's coming to me.
So if you've read everything so far - thank you! If you haven't well... summary is : should I ask about career progression/payrise now or just keep MTFU and carry on.
It is coming to almost 2 years of me joining this company (well 1 year 7 months). It is not a big company but is well known in the industry and makes substantial profit year by year despite the difficult economic climate.
First of all, some pros about the company :
- Close commuting distance (save on fuel!)
- Fairly relaxed atmosphere - not much pressure if dont step on other people's toes etc
- Company expanding quickly (I would say almost 50% growth since I've joined)
- Freedom and flexibility in my work
- Most of my purchase requests approved :P
My role is a rather bespoke one but I would say fairly transferable within the industry with experience. I've joined at a "high junior level" due to experience at the time. I would say in terms of pay grade is it around 60% mark with 100% being the Directors.
All in all I must say it's fairly good working here. We have 2 salary/performance reviews per year - minor in June and major review just before Xmas. So far I have got a raise on both reviews. Very minor raise (still in same pay grade) but better than nothing.
I have been commended on all my work and have gone "above and beyond" duty to ensure the job gets done. So far so good but sometimes I wonder if it is possible to achieve more in terms of pay or position.I have done a quick research and fellow peers are earning on average 3-5k more per annum with matching level of experience. Again, as my role is a little bit specialised it's hard to get an accurate figure.
What I am thinking is to ask or maybe discuss a higher pay and maybe trying to move onto management or given a more senior role. I did ask during the interview about career progression and was told it is possible.
I guess the question is - is it too soon to ask for me? How would someone start asking or discussing this issue? My direct line manager is the Finance Director as we as yet have an IT director.
I would like to say I am very happy working here... it's just a voice in me wanting to progress further. In terms of options, the company does not have a direct senior role I could fill at the moment but that could change as my role was a new one in the company. So far I have never voiced a single word regarding pay/role. I just accept what's coming to me.
So if you've read everything so far - thank you! If you haven't well... summary is : should I ask about career progression/payrise now or just keep MTFU and carry on.
Sounds like a great place to work!
In IT, the market rate is what people recruit at. Sometimes this may be above what the existing employees are paid at however over time a good company should be benchmarking their employees against each other. No two individuals are the same, so expecting the same rate for the same job can be difficult to justify.
Personally, I prefer to be paid just below what the top guy is earning. He can justify his extra
In IT, the market rate is what people recruit at. Sometimes this may be above what the existing employees are paid at however over time a good company should be benchmarking their employees against each other. No two individuals are the same, so expecting the same rate for the same job can be difficult to justify.
Personally, I prefer to be paid just below what the top guy is earning. He can justify his extra
I sense you need to determine if you're going to be a career 'follower' or a 'leader'. If it's the former, you seem to be in a good place. If, as I suspect from your note, it's the latter, then you need to have a grown up conversation with your boss and ask about career progression within. He'll get your drift and so will either support you so that they can keep you or he won't, then you'll have to test your perceived worth on the open market. Good luck!
worsy said:
Sounds like a great place to work!
In IT, the market rate is what people recruit at. Sometimes this may be above what the existing employees are paid at however over time a good company should be benchmarking their employees against each other. No two individuals are the same, so expecting the same rate for the same job can be difficult to justify.
Personally, I prefer to be paid just below what the top guy is earning. He can justify his extra
It is if you prefer a stable work environment. To me it's added bonus as it's very close to my home (so I can just afford running thr GTR as daily...).In IT, the market rate is what people recruit at. Sometimes this may be above what the existing employees are paid at however over time a good company should be benchmarking their employees against each other. No two individuals are the same, so expecting the same rate for the same job can be difficult to justify.
Personally, I prefer to be paid just below what the top guy is earning. He can justify his extra
There's plenty of old timers here with the longest serving staff clocking in at 25 years service (could be other even longer serving staff I'm not aware of).
The OH and kids are perfectly happy about where we are now location and financial wise. I guess I should be happy myself but I don't know why I keep getting the desire to do more and of course, earn more. I know I am capable of doing/offering more and the performance review feedback mirrors this.
I also know I shouldn't be so immature but I just saw a job (non IT related) advertised that has my same pay grade but is basically an administrator job (with some customer services skills) and I did feel a little down... I won't comment on the individual but I know for a fact the job doesn't have as much responsibilities as mine. I have worked longer hours without complaint,have always produced results even on very last minute projects/demands and on occasions have done more than I'm required to. I know I could have just taken the "do what you are paid for job" but I guess I'm not that sort of person. I always like to challenge myself and try to give the best I can. I'm not saying the job advertised is not worth the pay grade but I wish I a little bit more reward myself.
Ah, sorry for the whole thing turning into a rant. Winter blues coming in early I guess.
crazy about cars said:
It is if you prefer a stable work environment. To me it's added bonus as it's very close to my home (so I can just afford running thr GTR as daily...).
There's plenty of old timers here with the longest serving staff clocking in at 25 years service (could be other even longer serving staff I'm not aware of).
The OH and kids are perfectly happy about where we are now location and financial wise. I guess I should be happy myself but I don't know why I keep getting the desire to do more and of course, earn more. I know I am capable of doing/offering more and the performance review feedback mirrors this.
I also know I shouldn't be so immature but I just saw a job (non IT related) advertised that has my same pay grade but is basically an administrator job (with some customer services skills) and I did feel a little down... I won't comment on the individual but I know for a fact the job doesn't have as much responsibilities as mine. I have worked longer hours without complaint,have always produced results even on very last minute projects/demands and on occasions have done more than I'm required to. I know I could have just taken the "do what you are paid for job" but I guess I'm not that sort of person. I always like to challenge myself and try to give the best I can. I'm not saying the job advertised is not worth the pay grade but I wish I a little bit more reward myself.
Ah, sorry for the whole thing turning into a rant. Winter blues coming in early I guess.
Thing is you'll always find a better paid job than you if you look hard enough. Being happy is a balance between what you do at work and what you do at home, and sometimes, the worst paid job offers the overall happiest existence because the work is rewarding, stress levels are low and it allows you to live in a location of your choosing There's plenty of old timers here with the longest serving staff clocking in at 25 years service (could be other even longer serving staff I'm not aware of).
The OH and kids are perfectly happy about where we are now location and financial wise. I guess I should be happy myself but I don't know why I keep getting the desire to do more and of course, earn more. I know I am capable of doing/offering more and the performance review feedback mirrors this.
I also know I shouldn't be so immature but I just saw a job (non IT related) advertised that has my same pay grade but is basically an administrator job (with some customer services skills) and I did feel a little down... I won't comment on the individual but I know for a fact the job doesn't have as much responsibilities as mine. I have worked longer hours without complaint,have always produced results even on very last minute projects/demands and on occasions have done more than I'm required to. I know I could have just taken the "do what you are paid for job" but I guess I'm not that sort of person. I always like to challenge myself and try to give the best I can. I'm not saying the job advertised is not worth the pay grade but I wish I a little bit more reward myself.
Ah, sorry for the whole thing turning into a rant. Winter blues coming in early I guess.
If you start looking for roles / people to compare yourself to, you'll probably never be happy because you'll always be chasing pastures greener, but you'll probably never be as successful as someone who does; it's very rare to achieve both.
rog007 said:
I sense you need to determine if you're going to be a career 'follower' or a 'leader'. If it's the former, you seem to be in a good place. If, as I suspect from your note, it's the latter, then you need to have a grown up conversation with your boss and ask about career progression within. He'll get your drift and so will either support you so that they can keep you or he won't, then you'll have to test your perceived worth on the open market. Good luck!
Thanks for the advice! I hope that I don't come as a snob in saying this but I feel that I am a leader. I feel motivated when put in charge of making decisions and always try to I will definitely summon up the courage to discuss this with my boss during the annual review end of this year.
Edited by crazy about cars on Monday 24th September 18:24
rhinochopig said:
Thing is you'll always find a better paid job than you if you look hard enough. Being happy is a balance between what you do at work and what you do at home, and sometimes, the worst paid job offers the overall happiest existence because the work is rewarding, stress levels are low and it allows you to live in a location of your choosing
If you start looking for roles / people to compare yourself to, you'll probably never be happy because you'll always be chasing pastures greener, but you'll probably never be as successful as someone who does; it's very rare to achieve both.
Yet another sensible advice - thanks If you start looking for roles / people to compare yourself to, you'll probably never be happy because you'll always be chasing pastures greener, but you'll probably never be as successful as someone who does; it's very rare to achieve both.
I guess it's a combination of hitting midlife crisis (if there's such a thing!) and me being a "latecomer" to the industry. I've spent most of my early 20s in education hence why I lack the industry experience. Not sure why but I keep comparing lately - a destructive obsession which I need to get rid of. Not helping when my cousin (same age) recently got a big fat promotion and is all over FB about :PEdited by crazy about cars on Monday 24th September 16:50
rog007 said:
I hope that's a typo!
Well I guess it's sort of a typo but what I think it meant is completely off the mark! (Thanks to Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromanagement)Oh well, live and let learn they say...
Would you rather move for a short term raise of a few % or set yourself up for a career step change that might net you 20-50%?
Sounds like you're in a growing company that you like and doing a job you enjoy so I'd be going for the longer term advantage. Of course it doesn't always work out that way and you need to be continually making sure it's going in the right direction.
I'd say without a doubt you need to have a proper grown up chat with with finance director. Discuss the long term strategy of the group, find out what areas the new IT director is going to be asked to focus on, chat about the things that the department could so to quickly add value and so on. Then have a good think about where you can fit in.
Sounds like you're in a growing company that you like and doing a job you enjoy so I'd be going for the longer term advantage. Of course it doesn't always work out that way and you need to be continually making sure it's going in the right direction.
I'd say without a doubt you need to have a proper grown up chat with with finance director. Discuss the long term strategy of the group, find out what areas the new IT director is going to be asked to focus on, chat about the things that the department could so to quickly add value and so on. Then have a good think about where you can fit in.
Wow... must be some kind of freak coincidence. Got a call today from a reputable recruitment agency (ones that don't have their numbers appearing as Blocked/Unknown :P) offering to help me interview for a job that is slightly further away20 miles further away one way but offers almost 10k more annually. The job description suits me perfectly and further training will be provided to fortify my skillsets.
It is rare that a position like that (with such a high salary...) appears. I don't know what to do now... should I forward my CV to the agency? I just don't feel "right" about doing this but on the other hand I want to see if I can even get an interview (this is a multi-national company).
I've been let down by agencies before hence why I am so cautious... what should I do? forward CV and hope for the best or just forget it? I guess if my current employer finds out I am applying for another job I'll risk my current position?
It is rare that a position like that (with such a high salary...) appears. I don't know what to do now... should I forward my CV to the agency? I just don't feel "right" about doing this but on the other hand I want to see if I can even get an interview (this is a multi-national company).
I've been let down by agencies before hence why I am so cautious... what should I do? forward CV and hope for the best or just forget it? I guess if my current employer finds out I am applying for another job I'll risk my current position?
Edited by crazy about cars on Tuesday 25th September 11:20
CoopR said:
I'd say without a doubt you need to have a proper grown up chat with with finance director. Discuss the long term strategy of the group, find out what areas the new IT director is going to be asked to focus on, chat about the things that the department could so to quickly add value and so on. Then have a good think about where you can fit in.
I do have such notions but in real life I guess I am a little bit timid... most of the time I just do as I'm told as I'm afraid to offend anyone. I guess it won't harm trying to discuss my ambitions with the FD when it's appropriate.rog007 said:
Do what feels right. Good luck!
Just text my missus and she asked me to consider this carefully. For one, travelling/commuting costs will drastically increase as it's around 200 miles per week commuting. That will most probably mean goodbye GTR... 
I'm very tempted to say prepare my CV+cover letter, forward it to the recruitment agent and tell her to handle this discreetly. I've never done something like this before so not sure if that'll backfire when the company calls my current one for reference ...
crazy about cars said:
I'm very tempted to say prepare my CV+cover letter, forward it to the recruitment agent and tell her to handle this discreetly. I've never done something like this before so not sure if that'll backfire when the company calls my current one for reference ...
You'll need to look at the financial side of it and see if this new job will increase or decrease your monthly take home with a 10k salary increase against fuel for the extra commute. Assuming you're using a small engined diesel, I can't see it leaving you out of pocket.You can ask the new company to hold off contacting your former employer until after the interview stage and a verbal offer has been made. This will also give you the chance to look at the new company and judge the opportunity for progression, which was your original concern.
Have a think, balance the positives and negatives and then decide on a course of action. You could always go for the job and, if you are successful, talk to your current FD and see what they come back with?
The Beaver King said:
You'll need to look at the financial side of it and see if this new job will increase or decrease your monthly take home with a 10k salary increase against fuel for the extra commute. Assuming you're using a small engined diesel, I can't see it leaving you out of pocket.
You can ask the new company to hold off contacting your former employer until after the interview stage and a verbal offer has been made. This will also give you the chance to look at the new company and judge the opportunity for progression, which was your original concern.
Have a think, balance the positives and negatives and then decide on a course of action. You could always go for the job and, if you are successful, talk to your current FD and see what they come back with?
Thanks for the advice! I've done some rough calculation here but after tax and considering the fuel costs (and any extra costs incurred) I will end up roughly £250-300 better off every month. This is just a very rough indication but it does look like that in real world money...You can ask the new company to hold off contacting your former employer until after the interview stage and a verbal offer has been made. This will also give you the chance to look at the new company and judge the opportunity for progression, which was your original concern.
Have a think, balance the positives and negatives and then decide on a course of action. You could always go for the job and, if you are successful, talk to your current FD and see what they come back with?
What I did was ask the recruiter/agency if they are happy to hold of any contact with my current company and of course raised the question about notice period etc. The answer I've got back is that she will be the contact between me and the prospective employer and nobody will be made aware.
She also asked my current salary. Now I'm not sure if I am happy to disclose that to her at this stage... Are you supposed to disclose current salary to recruiters?
crazy about cars said:
She also asked my current salary. Now I'm not sure if I am happy to disclose that to her at this stage... Are you supposed to disclose current salary to recruiters?
It is not unusual, though they tend to ask 'What sort of salary are you looking for?'.Agencies ask this so they can short-list other potential jobs for you. Moving to a new job, there is a certain expectation that people will usually talk up their salary by 10%. You can obviously try for more, but your new employer can ask your previous what your salary was prior to leaving. If your new employer finds out that you have lied, they can take a dim view.
If your new employer has offered a £10k increase then I wouldn't worry about the above, but be semi-realistic about your current salary when they ask.
The Beaver King said:
It is not unusual, though they tend to ask 'What sort of salary are you looking for?'.
Agencies ask this so they can short-list other potential jobs for you. Moving to a new job, there is a certain expectation that people will usually talk up their salary by 10%. You can obviously try for more, but your new employer can ask your previous what your salary was prior to leaving. If your new employer finds out that you have lied, they can take a dim view.
If your new employer has offered a £10k increase then I wouldn't worry about the above, but be semi-realistic about your current salary when they ask.
Ah, I see thanks. I haven't actually been offered anything just been contacted by this recruiter from my CV on CV library. I do have a feeling she didn't even read my whole CV but just my current job title on the top :PAgencies ask this so they can short-list other potential jobs for you. Moving to a new job, there is a certain expectation that people will usually talk up their salary by 10%. You can obviously try for more, but your new employer can ask your previous what your salary was prior to leaving. If your new employer finds out that you have lied, they can take a dim view.
If your new employer has offered a £10k increase then I wouldn't worry about the above, but be semi-realistic about your current salary when they ask.
Oh well I've answered her questions and I get the feeling she seem to have lost interest after hearing about my current salary versus the salary range for the job advertised. Fair play though as this has been a good learning experience for me.
crazy about cars said:
Oh well I've answered her questions and I get the feeling she seem to have lost interest after hearing about my current salary versus the salary range for the job advertised. Fair play though as this has been a good learning experience for me.
Exactly and you'll learn very quickly that it isn't unusual to get calls from these people offering work. I must get 4-5 phonecalls a month asking if I'd be interested in working for 'so and so' and 'how much are you looking for salary wise?'. I just fob them off with the same story now as I am happy with my current employer.I'd still have a conversation with your FD. There is no harm in asking for some kind of career plan to help focus your progression, in fact, an employer may look upon in favourably simply because you're showing foresight and drive to succeed.
If the company doesn't have a clear career progression plan in place, perhaps suggest a bespoke one to help you aim for targets?
The Beaver King said:
Exactly and you'll learn very quickly that it isn't unusual to get calls from these people offering work. I must get 4-5 phonecalls a month asking if I'd be interested in working for 'so and so' and 'how much are you looking for salary wise?'. I just fob them off with the same story now as I am happy with my current employer.
I'd still have a conversation with your FD. There is no harm in asking for some kind of career plan to help focus your progression, in fact, an employer may look upon in favourably simply because you're showing foresight and drive to succeed.
If the company doesn't have a clear career progression plan in place, perhaps suggest a bespoke one to help you aim for targets?
Thanks again for the advice! Most phone calls appear either as blocked or no number so I don't answer them and only will call back if they leave a message. However some recruiters still get through if they call from a "proper" land line number.I'd still have a conversation with your FD. There is no harm in asking for some kind of career plan to help focus your progression, in fact, an employer may look upon in favourably simply because you're showing foresight and drive to succeed.
If the company doesn't have a clear career progression plan in place, perhaps suggest a bespoke one to help you aim for targets?
I'll definitely summon the courage to have a chat with the FD on my end of year review in 2 months time. In my mind I know what I want but just not sure how to put it into words. Just thinking how should I start the questions, it'll be a bit awkward I guess if I ask "er... I'm thinking of discussion my career progression and pay grade in the company" and the FD answers "There's nothing to discuss..." :P
I think a bespoke career progression plan is definitely there but it just depends on the Board if they would approve it. If I progress into the next grade it will give me more responsibilities for managing a few tasks (I am actually doing this unofficially now anyway but it is hard as I normally get ignored unless the FD is involved). The thing is the company is investing heavily this year on infrastructure and also additional staffing due to growth so it would be hard to push for anything I guess unless offered. Oh well, there's 2 months for me to have a good think.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff