New starter and pregnancy

[defblade]

Well, not even as far as a new starter, really.

Interviews last weekend, one girl (known to the business via her mother who works closely (but not same company or anything)with us) offered job - maybe not as the strongest candidate otherwise but because something of a known quantity - on Monday (verbally, nothing signed or anything), on Tuesday finds out she's pregnant...

... management now don't want to give her the job, they are still advertising the position and taking in CVs, girl's mother is startign to mumble about discrimination.

Does girl have any grounds for action?

Notes:
I work here as a self-employed contractor so no skin off my nose either way;
the other staff have no input into the situation but are interested;
the positiion does require (legal/ethical requirment) training that would be difficult to complete in the usual timeframes if the person is off having a baby.

[davepoth]

Very iffy ground. With the offer made, it's extremely difficult to rescind it without looking exactly like what it's going to look like.

[rog007]

defblade said:

...one girl...offered job...verbally

She's now you're employee. Period.

[kiethton]

So she hasn't started and has no contract, I would annul the position and re-advertise as something marginally different:

Sales pricing analyst to market analyst etc.

That way the position is no longer available.

[warp9]

rog007 said:

defblade said:

...one girl...offered job...verbally

She's now you're employee. Period.

'What conversation, you must have mis-understood?'

Surely it's got to be in writing?

[harry010]

davepoth said:

Very iffy ground. With the offer made, it's extremely difficult to rescind it without looking exactly like what it's going to look like.

This.

[shtu]

Has to be said, remarkable timing on the candidate's part.

[Gargamel]

I have had similar situations, though in both cases the candidate themselves backed out from a sense of decency.

The tough line is no contract, signed, no binding job. Some reputational issues remain.


A verbal offer is merely an indication you would like to hire them and an agreement on numbers, it is not binding.

[Kermit power]

rog007 said:

defblade said:

...one girl...offered job...verbally

She's now you're employee. Period.

It's the lack of the latter which is the problem, surely?

On the plus side, presumably they don't need to pay her a penny in maternity pay?

The rules say the employee must have been employed continuously by the same employer for at least 26 weeks by the 15th week before the baby is due.

A human pregnancy is 38 weeks long, and on the assumption that she didn't fall pregnant during Monday night celebrations of her job offer, then she'll fall well short of the mark.

If I were the manager, I'd let the job offer stand but make clear that she will not receive a penny of maternity pay from your employer.

[rog007]

Gargamel said:

A verbal offer is merely an indication you would like to hire them and an agreement on numbers, it is not binding.

It is binding if she accepted the offer, verbally or in writing, according to employment law:

'Is it breach of contract to withdraw a job offer, or to turn it down, after it has been accepted?
Yes. The contract is made as soon as you accept the offer, and both sides are bound by the terms until the contract is terminated.'

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/E...

[phil-sti]

Sex discrimination has that statutory period before it can be used in a tribunial so be very careful. As stated though you won't have to pay her maternity pay.

[Countdown]

shtu said:

Has to be said, remarkable timing on the candidate's part.

Not sure. If she was playing the game she wouldn't have mentioned it until she had her feet under the table.

[anonymous-user]

phil-sti said:

Sex discrimination has that statutory period before it can be used in a tribunial so be very careful. As stated though you won't have to pay her maternity pay.

What statutory period?

It is illegal to discrimate for reasons of sex. End of. Not even 'iffy'.

Clearly the reason they now don't want to give her a job, regardless of what has been said, written, not written, whatever, is because she is pregnant. Sex discrimination.

Bang to rights.

Give her the job and don't let her see this thread or she'll be able to claim that she couldn't now take the job after seeing how discriminatory you are and she'll take you to the cleaners in any case.

Classic, it really is.

[Countdown]

phil-sti said:

Sex discrimination has that statutory period before it can be used in a tribunial so be very careful. As stated though you won't have to pay her maternity pay.

Depending on the size of the company most if not all SMP is claimed back from the Guv'mint.

The ballache is recruiting/employing/training somebody for 9 months. THAT person will be looking for permanent employment elsewhere from Day 1 so you never know when the ballache will start again. And if you employ from agency you're looking at paying a hefty premium.

PITA for small firms.

[phil-sti]

I meant doesn't have a stat period lol

[defblade]

REALIST123 said:

What statutory period?

It is illegal to discrimate for reasons of sex. End of. Not even 'iffy'.

Clearly the reason they now don't want to give her a job, regardless of what has been said, written, not written, whatever, is because she is pregnant. Sex discrimination.

Bang to rights.

Give her the job and don't let her see this thread or she'll be able to claim that she couldn't now take the job after seeing how discriminatory you are and she'll take you to the cleaners in any case.

Classic, it really is.

Thanks for all the comments, folks, bosses may well be right up the river then

As I said, I'm really not involved in this at all as I'm not even an employee of the company, but all the girls there want to know how this could turn out - gossip, mainly - and I knew PH wouldn't let me down

[southendpier]

go through her cv with a fine toothed comb any falsification get rid. preggers or not.

[harry010]

southendpier said:

go through her cv with a fine toothed comb any falsification get rid. preggers or not.

Really?

Women do have children, it's a fact of life - she has been offered the job presumably because she was the best for it, she should not lose the opportunity just because she happens to have fallen pregnant. I don't know how far along she is, but if it's less than 25 weeks (and I'm guessing it's quite a bit less than that) she was under no obligation whatsoever to tell the employer of her condition.

It sounds to me as if she has tried to be fair in letting them know as soon as possible, and unless there is any reason she cannot do the job whilst pregnant she should not be discriminated against.

Harry, 24 weeks pregnant.

[Deva Link]

REALIST123 said:

It is illegal to discrimate for reasons of sex. End of. Not even 'iffy'.

Clearly the reason they now don't want to give her a job, regardless of what has been said, written, not written, whatever, is because she is pregnant. Sex discrimination.

What would happen if the employer took on another woman instead of the one who has fallen pregnant - surely a claim of sex descrimination would look a bit daft then?

[NiceCupOfTea]

davepoth said:

Very iffy ground. With the offer made, it's extremely difficult to rescind it without looking exactly like what it's going to look like. it is.