Women cyclists and HGVs

[oyster]

Coming into work this morning towards Blackfriars Bridge there's 2 HGVs waiting at the lights to turn left into Stamford St, both clearly indicating and both clearly positioned to turn left as the lights go green.

Most cyclists have either gone well ahead of the first HGV and waiting just across the stop line, some cyclists (including myself) stayed behind the second HGV.

As the lights turn green, the first HGV patiently waits until the cyclists in front of him have pulled away safely then begins to turn left. As he does so, 2 women cyclists decide to cut down the inside at a fairly slow pace. Fortunately the HGV driver sees them, brakes and sounds his horn. These 2 women carry on straight ahead without a care in the world.

I'm finding it really hard to not sound sexist, but why do women cyclists seem to do this so much? And the stats back this up - with the amount of female cyclist deaths being proportionately so much higher than for men.

[anonymous-user]

did you catch the cyclists and have a word? not being pedantic but they will do it again and again until they are involved in an accident and then it will get blamed on the driver by the cycle commuter mafia as another example of bad driving...

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 28th August 13:21

[kenno78]

I stopped a woman on her bike who did something very similar by smithfield market.

Big concrete mixing truck signalling left and stationary at the lights. She's trying to squeeze through the gap between truck and kerb. The gaps so tight she's having to use her left leg on the kerb to keep upright. The lights go green and she's about halfway up the side of the truck. I wince anticipating the sound of crushing metal and bones.

Thankfully, the trucks passenger notices her and the truck slams on his brakes. The passenger opens his door and strikes up a dialogue with the woman, explaining the dangers. She's not interested in listening to him as she drags her bike onto the pavement.

I stop by and also explain that he was in the right and she was very lucky not to have ended up under his wheels. She tells me to mind my own business and that it's her life and I had no right in telling her how to live it.

I now leave them be.

[djglover]

yes, I have often observed this happen and it's mainly women too. I think most of the recent london deaths from left turning lorries are women.

[sleep envy]

kenno78 said:

She's not interested in listening to him as she drags her bike onto the pavement.

I stop by and also explain that he was in the right and she was very lucky not to have ended up under his wheels. She tells me to mind my own business and that it's her life and I had no right in telling her how to live it.

Darwinism FTW.

[Hackney]

I see this all the time in London, apparently cycling with blinkers on and a death wish.
But obviously it's always going to be the fault of the HGV driver or due to poor town planning.

[oyster]

pablo said:

did you catch the cyclists and have a word? not being pedantic but they will do it again and again until they are involved in an accident and then it will get blamed on the driver by the cycle commuter mafia as another example of bad driving...

Edited by pablo on Tuesday 28th August 13:21

I didn't unfortunately. Regret not doing so, now you've said it.

[funinhounslow]

I don't know the junction in question but is there a "bike lane" (gutter painted green) there? It could simply be that they are blindly following the bike lane assuming it is the correct thing to do rather than employing a basic bit of road awareness? 

I think these bike lanes and advance stop areas can sometimes be counterproductive by encouraging cyclists to go for the safety of the ASL, when often it is easier and safer to hang back, especially if there are only a couple of vehicles ahead. 

I think it's the classic combination of a lack of road awareness and hopelessly inadequate provision for cyclists. Wasn't that poor bloke who got killed during the Olympics a beginner who got left hooked by a bus?

[otherman]

djglover said:

yes, I have often observed this happen and it's mainly women too. I think most of the recent london deaths from left turning lorries are women.

You think based on what?

I decided to look this one up. The study Deaths of cyclists in london: trends from 1992 to 2006 appears to be the recent and comprehensive study on the subject and on this specific subject it says;

"Freight vehicles were involved in 103 of 242 (43%) of all incidents and the vehicle was making a left turn in over half of these (53%)"- so it looks like folks are right that this is a common way cyclists come to grief

"Almost three quarters of fatalities were male (n = 177)" - although since we don't know what proportion of all cyclists are male we can't say if this makes them higher or lower risk

"There was no difference between the sexes for fatalities caused by freight vehicles turning left (p = 0.35)" note this is no difference in probability, not no difference in numbers. So I'm afraid you're all wrong about this and are just sexist pigs.

[robpearson]

do you think we should cross-post this to mumsnet? they might appreciate our expert advice over there ;-)

[heebeegeetee]

swerni said:

to carry on with a theme.

Just been out for a 25 mile ride to Kingston.
Why do people( predominantly women) have no fking idea what indicators are for?

I think signalling ones intention while driving has become somewhat of a lost art

The UK, as a whole, has practically given up on indicating imo. I have no idea why.

[2volvos]

Totally agree - how often are you there sat waiting to enter a roundabout, riding and driving, while ignorant sods take the exit before yours without indicating left.

Men, women, BMWs, vans, Skodas, Vauxhalls, Fords, the whole bloody lot of 'em. Grr.

[croyde]

Hardly surprising, have you seen how most women drive. Concentrate on everything apart from actual driving and they admit it too. One of the school mum's the other day said that she had to dash as she had to go back to the Audi she had just reversed into. "I've got those reversing beepers but my mind must have been on other things" she said as she got into her car.

[Genelec]

I'm sorry, but what the fk? Really? Are you all actually Bernard Manning/Jim Davidson?

[croyde]

I'm here all week, try the veal.

[crisisjez]

Regardless of sex this is becoming a repeated theme, isn't it about time the government launched a road safety campaign to address this?
A letter to your local MP would take no longer than a post on here and may actually achieve something.

[sleep envy]

crisisjez said:

isn't it about time the government launched a road safety campaign to address this?

Are you serious?

[crisisjez]

sleep envy said:

crisisjez said:

isn't it about time the government launched a road safety campaign to address this?

Are you serious?

Yes, I watch the TV every night and am yet to see an advert, I read the paper, no ads in that either. I listen to the radio, no ads.
I'm guessing that once again a few passive ads on the side of a London Taxi are the Gov's lip service response to the problem.
And all aimed at the driver too no doubt.
With our recent successes in cycling on the world stage I can well imagine that the statistics will take an upward turn unless some educating is done.
This could easily be done with a small road safety brochure given free with any new bike sold, not guranteed but better than nothing.

Edited by crisisjez on Wednesday 29th August 08:19

[anonymous-user]

crisisjez said:

sleep envy said:

crisisjez said:

isn't it about time the government launched a road safety campaign to address this?

Are you serious?

Yes, I watch the TV every night and am yet to see an advert, I read the paper, no ads in that either. I listen to the radio, no ads.
I'm guessing that once again a few passive ads on the side of a London Taxi are the Gov's lip service response to the problem.

I think there comes a point when people are expected to look after themselves. I'd say that point comes when you can tie your own shoelaces and remain upright on a bicycle.

if you cycle up the left hand side of a vehicle indicating left and get knocked off, you really have only got yourself to blame. no ad campaign can address that level of stupidity.

we are flesh and bones, cars are steel and aluminium. its not rocket science to work out who will come off worse in a crash thus some form of self preservation is in order...

[CoolC]

crisisjez said:

sleep envy said:

crisisjez said:

isn't it about time the government launched a road safety campaign to address this?

Are you serious?

Yes, I watch the TV every night and am yet to see an advert, I read the paper, no ads in that either. I listen to the radio, no ads.
I'm guessing that once again a few passive ads on the side of a London Taxi are the Gov's lip service response to the problem.
And all aimed at the driver too no doubt.

Edited by crisisjez on Wednesday 29th August 08:14

Have to agree (to an extent). We were all sick to death of the Labour days when every ad break was filled with these things, but they were mostly crap that had either no relevance of was a "pay all your tax" type message.

A good well written, well thought out (i.e. use British Cycling or someone) message could be a good useful worthwhile Olympic legacy keeping all the new riders spurred on by Wiggo et al safe and well.