996 Turbo first test drive disappointment
Discussion
Hi All, this is my first post on here.
I have been to look at a 996 Turbo today and I would be interested in your opinion on my evaluation of it.
A bit of back ground info.
I am about to sell my Lotus Elise due to lack of use. I have had it along time and have made it perfect with a nut and bolt restoration (which was completely unnecessary on a 22k mile car) which has been part of the ownership enjoyment. Since having my two young children the usage has reduced year on year.
My idea is to replace the Elise with a 2+2 so that I will be able to take all the family, whilst the kids are young, out at once. After a brief look at TVR Cerbera’s the Porsche 911 became the obvious choice. It will be a second car and only used on weekends.
I have a budget of £25k which, looking through the classifieds, looks like I can just about get a 996tt. The decision to sell the Elise is a very difficult one so I decided to convince myself the Porsche would offer sufficient driving enjoyment on the road and that I will be able to get one in good enough condition for me at my budget, so I arranged to look at a car today.
I have previously looked at one outside my budget at £33k, which was fabulous but I did not go as far as test driving it. The one I have looked at today was priced at £24k with 72k miles.
The car:
A 2001 manual from a independent dealer that seemed to sell more Audi’s, the Porsche being the most expensive car in stock. Externally it was in ok condition, not dents and not too many stone chips. It did look a little tired in places but it had not been prepared well. Looking underneath the exhaust along with everything else was pretty rusty with a coating of oil at the bottom of the engine.
Brakes, tyres had life left in them but had not been replaced for some time.
Inside the interior had clearly had a hard life with tears in the gear gaiter and general scratches in all the plastic trim and indentations in the back seats.
After a good look around the car I was given the keys and went out for a test drive.
The first thing I noticed was how rubbish the gear change was, I expected rifle bolt, what I got was completely vague.
This was the first 996tt I had driven so with 420bhp on my mind I set of cautiously. Within a minute a low oil warning appeared. When warmed up I took a deep breath and put my foot down briefly on a long downhill straight slip road. I was completely underwhelmed. Compared to the Elise which feels on its toes all the time with instant acceleration this felt laboured. If I was guessing the power I would have said I was driving a 170bhp diesel. On the way back another error message appeared saying oil sensor failure (or similar).
Does this sound right? Do you think there is something seriously wrong with this car? Would you expect someone used to a 120Bhp Elise to find the 996tt obviously faster, I would, to be honest I expected the power to be intimidating in the higher rev range.
Is the manual gear change usually like stirring porridge on higher mileage cars?
I was hoping I would now be convinced this would be the right decision but I am less convicted now, hopefully the general opinion will be that this car is faulty. I will try and get a drive of another car if I can, although I hate wasting people’s time if I am not in a position to buy.
I must admit despite my reservations about this particular cars condition I still think there was something special about it and I so much wanted my initial drive to bowl me over.
I would be really interested in any words of wisdom on this.
I have been to look at a 996 Turbo today and I would be interested in your opinion on my evaluation of it.
A bit of back ground info.
I am about to sell my Lotus Elise due to lack of use. I have had it along time and have made it perfect with a nut and bolt restoration (which was completely unnecessary on a 22k mile car) which has been part of the ownership enjoyment. Since having my two young children the usage has reduced year on year.
My idea is to replace the Elise with a 2+2 so that I will be able to take all the family, whilst the kids are young, out at once. After a brief look at TVR Cerbera’s the Porsche 911 became the obvious choice. It will be a second car and only used on weekends.
I have a budget of £25k which, looking through the classifieds, looks like I can just about get a 996tt. The decision to sell the Elise is a very difficult one so I decided to convince myself the Porsche would offer sufficient driving enjoyment on the road and that I will be able to get one in good enough condition for me at my budget, so I arranged to look at a car today.
I have previously looked at one outside my budget at £33k, which was fabulous but I did not go as far as test driving it. The one I have looked at today was priced at £24k with 72k miles.
The car:
A 2001 manual from a independent dealer that seemed to sell more Audi’s, the Porsche being the most expensive car in stock. Externally it was in ok condition, not dents and not too many stone chips. It did look a little tired in places but it had not been prepared well. Looking underneath the exhaust along with everything else was pretty rusty with a coating of oil at the bottom of the engine.
Brakes, tyres had life left in them but had not been replaced for some time.
Inside the interior had clearly had a hard life with tears in the gear gaiter and general scratches in all the plastic trim and indentations in the back seats.
After a good look around the car I was given the keys and went out for a test drive.
The first thing I noticed was how rubbish the gear change was, I expected rifle bolt, what I got was completely vague.
This was the first 996tt I had driven so with 420bhp on my mind I set of cautiously. Within a minute a low oil warning appeared. When warmed up I took a deep breath and put my foot down briefly on a long downhill straight slip road. I was completely underwhelmed. Compared to the Elise which feels on its toes all the time with instant acceleration this felt laboured. If I was guessing the power I would have said I was driving a 170bhp diesel. On the way back another error message appeared saying oil sensor failure (or similar).
Does this sound right? Do you think there is something seriously wrong with this car? Would you expect someone used to a 120Bhp Elise to find the 996tt obviously faster, I would, to be honest I expected the power to be intimidating in the higher rev range.
Is the manual gear change usually like stirring porridge on higher mileage cars?
I was hoping I would now be convinced this would be the right decision but I am less convicted now, hopefully the general opinion will be that this car is faulty. I will try and get a drive of another car if I can, although I hate wasting people’s time if I am not in a position to buy.
I must admit despite my reservations about this particular cars condition I still think there was something special about it and I so much wanted my initial drive to bowl me over.
I would be really interested in any words of wisdom on this.
Simple words of wisdom let it be.
Based on your report that car is sick. Your first clue was the low oil level warning light. Can't image the seller didn't know about that...You should have saved yourself some time and turned around taken the car back and walked away with a no thanks.
While it is my humble opinion the 996 Turbo is a fantastic car (love my 03!) not every example is a good one.
Some I'm sad to say are sick and need extensive/expensive work and some, a few of these are need a one way trip to the wrecking yard.
This one I suspect is in the latter category.
Keep looking. There is always another car.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
Based on your report that car is sick. Your first clue was the low oil level warning light. Can't image the seller didn't know about that...You should have saved yourself some time and turned around taken the car back and walked away with a no thanks.
While it is my humble opinion the 996 Turbo is a fantastic car (love my 03!) not every example is a good one.
Some I'm sad to say are sick and need extensive/expensive work and some, a few of these are need a one way trip to the wrecking yard.
This one I suspect is in the latter category.
Keep looking. There is always another car.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
if you are driving a 120hp elise and a 911 turbo felt like a 170bhp diesel then there is definetly something wrong. i have driven both cars and the 996 turbo is a much quicker car. in fact i have driven an elise fitted with a 260bhp 1.8t audi engine and the 911 turbo was still the quicker car.
drive another one and see how it feels. this example sounds pretty poor based on the issues you have described on a short test run! i would steer clear!
drive another one and see how it feels. this example sounds pretty poor based on the issues you have described on a short test run! i would steer clear!
You're always going to get some lag, but the biggest thing I notice about my TT is the torque, it just has spades of it and that's what impresses me the most more so than the power.
Reading your thread it sounds like the car is at the bottom of the heap and wasn't a good example. I would suggest that you keep on looking and try to get over the disappointment of a poorly kept example.
Reading your thread it sounds like the car is at the bottom of the heap and wasn't a good example. I would suggest that you keep on looking and try to get over the disappointment of a poorly kept example.
I have a 996 turbo and an Elise R.
The turbo definately has more go than the elise although the delivery is less peaky, the elise is no slouch from standstill up to around 70/80mph but for roll on acceleration from 30mph and up the turbo should feel like it came from a different planet.
The turbo should be boosting to 0.6/0.7 bar, if it isn't then there is a problem.
If your in north london feel free to pass by and test them back to back. The Elise R and more so the SC has a fantastic kick and loves to rev which might be more your thing than the torque of the turbo engine. I love having both as they are totally different.
The turbo definately has more go than the elise although the delivery is less peaky, the elise is no slouch from standstill up to around 70/80mph but for roll on acceleration from 30mph and up the turbo should feel like it came from a different planet.
The turbo should be boosting to 0.6/0.7 bar, if it isn't then there is a problem.
If your in north london feel free to pass by and test them back to back. The Elise R and more so the SC has a fantastic kick and loves to rev which might be more your thing than the torque of the turbo engine. I love having both as they are totally different.
OP - From your description that just doesn't sound right! First time I hit the loud pedal ih a 996 turbo it was like whooooaa 
I'd recommend you keep looking and try and drive another. I think when you drive a good one the difference will be like night and day!
£25k will probably get you into a decent higher mileage earlier model but if you were to stretch to £30k you'll get a lower mileage beauty, from a recognised Porsche independent, someone like JZM, Virgin etc who really know there cars.
I'd recommend you keep looking and try and drive another. I think when you drive a good one the difference will be like night and day!
£25k will probably get you into a decent higher mileage earlier model but if you were to stretch to £30k you'll get a lower mileage beauty, from a recognised Porsche independent, someone like JZM, Virgin etc who really know there cars.
I'd echo what everyone else says about the car you drove being a snotter, sadly with the amount they made their are plenty of crap ones out there that haven't been looked after & are now on the books of dealers that aren't selling you anything more than the badge.
One word of warning though, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, you're main experience these days is of that Elise. Nut & bolt resto, feels like brand new added to the fact that after flyweights almost any car feels big & cumbersome.
I had the same problem after driving a mr2 spyder as my daily for 3 years, everything felt like a big heavy old lump after that but you do need to adjust your mindset a little bit, which a one hour test drive will never do.
But that 996 you drive does sound like a heap-avoid!
One word of warning though, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, you're main experience these days is of that Elise. Nut & bolt resto, feels like brand new added to the fact that after flyweights almost any car feels big & cumbersome.
I had the same problem after driving a mr2 spyder as my daily for 3 years, everything felt like a big heavy old lump after that but you do need to adjust your mindset a little bit, which a one hour test drive will never do.
But that 996 you drive does sound like a heap-avoid!
Thanks for all the quick responses guys, I feel one hell of a lot happier now.
I will try and drive another. This is not as easy as it sounds in West Yorkshire with very few for sale trade (I would not waste a private seller until I was ready to buy). I had to travel 100 miles to stoke on Trent to see this one. When I have sold the Elise and have the cash I thing a trip to the London area is likely to provide more choice of cars.
I did look at another tip car at another dealer in stoke. It was one of those so called prestige car places that turned out to not have any prestigious cars in stock but 40 low value cars crammed into a small space with the 911 in the middle. It was in better general condition inside and out but the headlights were cloudy in patches. I spend 5-10mins looking at the car and looking for someone who worked there, with no look so I gave up and walked away. I have no idea how I could have test drove the car without air lifting it out of its location! I had contacted them to say I was coming as well.
There is a place in Birmingham (another 200mile round trip) that is advertising two cars that I will try and get to see.
Can anybody comment on what the manual gear change is like on a 996tt, that was another surprise.
I will try and drive another. This is not as easy as it sounds in West Yorkshire with very few for sale trade (I would not waste a private seller until I was ready to buy). I had to travel 100 miles to stoke on Trent to see this one. When I have sold the Elise and have the cash I thing a trip to the London area is likely to provide more choice of cars.
I did look at another tip car at another dealer in stoke. It was one of those so called prestige car places that turned out to not have any prestigious cars in stock but 40 low value cars crammed into a small space with the 911 in the middle. It was in better general condition inside and out but the headlights were cloudy in patches. I spend 5-10mins looking at the car and looking for someone who worked there, with no look so I gave up and walked away. I have no idea how I could have test drove the car without air lifting it out of its location! I had contacted them to say I was coming as well.
There is a place in Birmingham (another 200mile round trip) that is advertising two cars that I will try and get to see.
Can anybody comment on what the manual gear change is like on a 996tt, that was another surprise.
Had similar experience when I first drove one. Just felt a little boring.
HOWEVER, in a test drive very difficult to understand what the car is capable of. I would go on a passenger ride with someone who is used to and knows how to drive the car. Even a salesman. That will surely win you over. It is an outstanding car and unbelievable performance wise.
(And yes, the one you drove was probably a dog - so go and see others).
HOWEVER, in a test drive very difficult to understand what the car is capable of. I would go on a passenger ride with someone who is used to and knows how to drive the car. Even a salesman. That will surely win you over. It is an outstanding car and unbelievable performance wise.
(And yes, the one you drove was probably a dog - so go and see others).
I felt a bit underwhelmed when I went from a Tvr T350, the Porsche is a heavy beast !
but once remapped its how I expected it should of felt std
Biggest and best feature for me is the grip it's phenomenal,no more tip toeing around in the wet
Great family sports car that grows on you day by day
but once remapped its how I expected it should of felt std
Biggest and best feature for me is the grip it's phenomenal,no more tip toeing around in the wet
Great family sports car that grows on you day by day
Maybe I'm a bit off with 996 turbo valuations, but I would think £25k would get you a good one (certainly much better than the one you drove!) - although maybe only if you went private.
If I was selling mine (excellent condition, 02, just rolled over 50k miles and just had major service, plenty of tread on all tyres, new brake pads / discs all round 6k miles ago etc. etc.) - I'd expect to get £25k.
The one comment I would make is regarding gear changes - 996 turbo doesn't have the best feel regarding gear changes - quite long travel. But that's probably the only thing that was common in the car you drove - everything else makes it sound like a very sick car indeed.
If I was selling mine (excellent condition, 02, just rolled over 50k miles and just had major service, plenty of tread on all tyres, new brake pads / discs all round 6k miles ago etc. etc.) - I'd expect to get £25k.
The one comment I would make is regarding gear changes - 996 turbo doesn't have the best feel regarding gear changes - quite long travel. But that's probably the only thing that was common in the car you drove - everything else makes it sound like a very sick car indeed.
That is certainly a point and a concern. A week end car has to be an experience to drive and I thought and still believe from the comments so far that should be the case.
I have a brand new everyday car as well which a 11 year old 72k mile car will never feel as tight as.
I have a brand new everyday car as well which a 11 year old 72k mile car will never feel as tight as.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'd echo what everyone else says about the car you drove being a snotter, sadly with the amount they made their are plenty of crap ones out there that haven't been looked after & are now on the books of dealers that aren't selling you anything more than the badge.
One word of warning though, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, you're main experience these days is of that Elise. Nut & bolt resto, feels like brand new added to the fact that after flyweights almost any car feels big & cumbersome.
I had the same problem after driving a mr2 spyder as my daily for 3 years, everything felt like a big heavy old lump after that but you do need to adjust your mindset a little bit, which a one hour test drive will never do.
But that 996 you drive does sound like a heap-avoid!
One word of warning though, as I'm sure I don't have to tell you, you're main experience these days is of that Elise. Nut & bolt resto, feels like brand new added to the fact that after flyweights almost any car feels big & cumbersome.
I had the same problem after driving a mr2 spyder as my daily for 3 years, everything felt like a big heavy old lump after that but you do need to adjust your mindset a little bit, which a one hour test drive will never do.
But that 996 you drive does sound like a heap-avoid!
Ramsden15 said:
That is certainly a point and a concern. A week end car has to be an experience to drive and I thought and still believe from the comments so far that should be the case.
I have a brand new everyday car as well which a 11 year old 72k mile car will never feel as tight as.
Actually - and I know I'll be in the minority here - but personally, I wouldn't want a 996 turbo as a weekend car.I have a brand new everyday car as well which a 11 year old 72k mile car will never feel as tight as.
Don't get me wrong - they are excellent cars, and very capable at almost everything (carrying lots of luggage being the exception). I like mine a lot - but I use it as a daily car. To me, driving it is not enough of an event for it to survive as just a weekend car - it is not special enough. A GT3 probably would be, an Elise would be, my 348 is - but a 996 turbo isn't. At least not for me.
ETA : To put it simply, in my view the 996 turbo is a very fast GT car. For a weekend only car, I want a sports car.
NBTBRV8 said:
You're always going to get some lag, but the biggest thing I notice about my TT is the torque, it just has spades of it and that's what impresses me the most more so than the power.
Reading your thread it sounds like the car is at the bottom of the heap and wasn't a good example. I would suggest that you keep on looking and try to get over the disappointment of a poorly kept example.
What colour is your Audi ?Reading your thread it sounds like the car is at the bottom of the heap and wasn't a good example. I would suggest that you keep on looking and try to get over the disappointment of a poorly kept example.
davek_964 said:
Actually - and I know I'll be in the minority here - but personally, I wouldn't want a 996 turbo as a weekend car.
Don't get me wrong - they are excellent cars, and very capable at almost everything (carrying lots of luggage being the exception). I like mine a lot - but I use it as a daily car. To me, driving it is not enough of an event for it to survive as just a weekend car - it is not special enough. A GT3 probably would be, an Elise would be, my 348 is - but a 996 turbo isn't. At least not for me.
I have to agree on this one. I am not slagging the 996 turbo off as it is a cracking car. But I bought one which was planned for, and used as, a "weekend" car. And I found pretty quickly that it wasn't special enough. In the same breath there are many people who do use them as weekenders and are very happy , but it just didn't do it for me.Don't get me wrong - they are excellent cars, and very capable at almost everything (carrying lots of luggage being the exception). I like mine a lot - but I use it as a daily car. To me, driving it is not enough of an event for it to survive as just a weekend car - it is not special enough. A GT3 probably would be, an Elise would be, my 348 is - but a 996 turbo isn't. At least not for me.
My previous Porsche's , 944S2 and certainly my 964C2 both had more of that "event" driving experience to be honest. So I wholeheartedly agree with davek in that the 996 turbo is more of a very rapid GT car than a sportscar. Coming from an Elise I think you will possibly discover the same feelings.
Edited by willmac on Saturday 25th August 08:54
The 996 TT is a great car but gives a different 911 experience to a NA one. For pure driving fun I prefer RWD, NA, narrow-bodied 911s on skinnier tyres. Have you considered the 3.2/964/993 as alternatives? All would be much slower in a straight line but make up for it (for me) in feedback and feel.
Test drives can ruin plans. A few years back I was trying to convince my wife to accept a 996 TT (with tiptronic) to be her daily driver. I thought it was workable as she doesn't drive much and with 4WD and auto it would have been ok here in Switzerland during the winter. I drove a few and liked them, even with the tiptronic. Persuaded my wife to have a drive and arranged a test drive of one locally. What I didn't know was that it had a really loud exhaust. Wife hated it. Before I could persuade her otherwise I saw an E93 M3 at a ridiculously low price so bought that instead.
Test drives can ruin plans. A few years back I was trying to convince my wife to accept a 996 TT (with tiptronic) to be her daily driver. I thought it was workable as she doesn't drive much and with 4WD and auto it would have been ok here in Switzerland during the winter. I drove a few and liked them, even with the tiptronic. Persuaded my wife to have a drive and arranged a test drive of one locally. What I didn't know was that it had a really loud exhaust. Wife hated it. Before I could persuade her otherwise I saw an E93 M3 at a ridiculously low price so bought that instead.
I agree with some of previous posters - I am very happy with my porsche turbo as a weekend car because it fits my criteria. It very quick, good place to be, looks good, handles exceptionally well, carries four and is very good in the wet 
... And mush better than my golf diesel daily drive.
For others the Porsche turbo does not fit the bill because of what they want from the car over and above their daily driver. A porsche GT probably ticks their boxes. For me my alternative weekend car is an ariel atom 300 which is completely barmy and definitely scratches the like a bike itch!
The OP wants a car with 4 seats. The Porsche turbo may well be very good weekend car if it meets your check list - however I would suggest also looking at the NA 996 porsches as well, especially since you are coming from a lotus. You are also going to get more for your money. I have driven my friends 996 Porsche Carrera several times, an excellent weekend car, sounds wonderful etc and is nine tenths of 996 gt3 IMHO especially on public roads.
... And mush better than my golf diesel daily drive.For others the Porsche turbo does not fit the bill because of what they want from the car over and above their daily driver. A porsche GT probably ticks their boxes. For me my alternative weekend car is an ariel atom 300 which is completely barmy and definitely scratches the like a bike itch!
The OP wants a car with 4 seats. The Porsche turbo may well be very good weekend car if it meets your check list - however I would suggest also looking at the NA 996 porsches as well, especially since you are coming from a lotus. You are also going to get more for your money. I have driven my friends 996 Porsche Carrera several times, an excellent weekend car, sounds wonderful etc and is nine tenths of 996 gt3 IMHO especially on public roads.
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