Eh? How does that work (Kenlowe)
Discussion
I wired my Kenlowe kit in so that the relay feed came from an ignition source (back of the alternator) as I didn't like walking away from the car with the fan running.
The motor feed is straight from the battery so the fan runs fine when at temperature and the ignition is on.
It's worked like that for about 3 months when today I noticed some peculiar behaviour.
I turned the ignition off and the fan cut out (as expected) then there was a pause of 1-2 seconds and it came back on, at the same time the battery light (red dashboard light) came on showing that at least part of the ignition circuit was live.
As soon as the fan cooled the car a little it all went off again.
What I don't understand is "how the heck can that happen?" I don't know if it's related at all but I had just washed the car and I did have the garage fir a new alternator a few weeks back and this is the first time I've driven it since.
I checked and the relay feed is still connected to the ignition circuit but I suspect something is feeding back through that connection and iluminating the dashboard light...
I guess it must be an internal fault in the Kenlowe relay (?)
The motor feed is straight from the battery so the fan runs fine when at temperature and the ignition is on.
It's worked like that for about 3 months when today I noticed some peculiar behaviour.
I turned the ignition off and the fan cut out (as expected) then there was a pause of 1-2 seconds and it came back on, at the same time the battery light (red dashboard light) came on showing that at least part of the ignition circuit was live.
As soon as the fan cooled the car a little it all went off again.
What I don't understand is "how the heck can that happen?" I don't know if it's related at all but I had just washed the car and I did have the garage fir a new alternator a few weeks back and this is the first time I've driven it since.
I checked and the relay feed is still connected to the ignition circuit but I suspect something is feeding back through that connection and iluminating the dashboard light...
I guess it must be an internal fault in the Kenlowe relay (?)
Julesprivate said:
I wired my Kenlowe kit in so that the relay feed came from an ignition source (back of the alternator)
That don't sound right to me, exactly where have you (or the garage) connected it?The big terminal is constant live and I'd have though connecting to the small connection (ignition light) could do funny things?
phillpot said:
Julesprivate said:
I wired my Kenlowe kit in so that the relay feed came from an ignition source (back of the alternator)
That don't sound right to me, exactly where have you (or the garage) connected it?The big terminal is constant live and I'd have though connecting to the small connection (ignition light) could do funny things?
Rob
Thanks Rob - but I think that does depend on the alternator fitted, mine's a replacement unit, I'll pop out in the daylight to find who made it (suspect it's a Lucas one though). The small terminal MIGHT be a battery sense input or it might be an aux output or it might even be a rev counter feed (all depends on the manufacturer) it could even be an unregulated output.... I've been doing a lot of reading LOL It could also be exactly what you said...
Thinking back on it I was actually wrong in my first post. I connected the kenlowe 12V ignition wire to the smaller brown wire on the rear of the alternator, the one connected to the same black plug as the H/D alternator output wire. That's the 12V ignition feed into the alternator that acts as the exciter so it should be fine to use.
I'm not actually sure that it is a Kenlowe issue now as the red light came on earlier (ignition off, keys in my pocket) and the fan didn't come on (the car was too cool to need it) so it may not be the Kenlowe feeding back, it may be something else that's shorting out, causing an ignition feed that the Kenlowe "made use of".
I'll see if it continues to happen and take proper look over the weekend.
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated
Thinking back on it I was actually wrong in my first post. I connected the kenlowe 12V ignition wire to the smaller brown wire on the rear of the alternator, the one connected to the same black plug as the H/D alternator output wire. That's the 12V ignition feed into the alternator that acts as the exciter so it should be fine to use.
I'm not actually sure that it is a Kenlowe issue now as the red light came on earlier (ignition off, keys in my pocket) and the fan didn't come on (the car was too cool to need it) so it may not be the Kenlowe feeding back, it may be something else that's shorting out, causing an ignition feed that the Kenlowe "made use of".
I'll see if it continues to happen and take proper look over the weekend.
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated
Le TVR said:
If you have taken the feed from the control input to the alternator its possible that the diode pack has now decided to go intermittent short. That could then give an indirect connection to the battery and the ignition light would come on.
I've moved the connection now to another 12V ignition fed source. Went out to start the car this morning and it's completely dead, no ignition lights, nothing. Put a jump start pack on it and the ignition lit up but it couldn't provide enough current to start the car and now the ignition doesn't even lighht up!That's a real shame as the car had been really relaible up til now.
If it is an intermittant short on the diode pack what might cause it as the pack is only a few weeks old (replaced in July), if it's something I did (wiring the fan up to the srong source) then I'm OK with that (in fact I'd be happy!) but if it's something else then I guess I need to find it!
Current symptoms are:
No power when ignition circuit turned on, obviously car won't crank/start.
I'll check the battery voltage tonight and see if I can put it on charge (if it stops raining (EVER))
Is it worth looking at the yellow connector?
As you've just been sorting out electrics I'd suspect that as the most likely cause.
Did you manage to blow a fuse, mis-connect or dis-connect something else?
Obviously battery state is the first check.
On this rare occasion I'm going to say unlikely to be yellow connector (I'll be wrong now!) & more likely something else disturbed.
Did you manage to blow a fuse, mis-connect or dis-connect something else?
Obviously battery state is the first check.
On this rare occasion I'm going to say unlikely to be yellow connector (I'll be wrong now!) & more likely something else disturbed.
I haven't really disturbed anything. I fitted a Kenlowe fan back in June and that has been working fine. I recently moved a single wire from the install to a different ignition fed source under the bonnet, but that was just one wire which I have moved from the back of the alternator. I didn't need to move any wires at all to do that, just desolder the wire and clamp it temporarily elsewhere..
I moved it AFTER the strange symptoms started (ignition coming on even with no key in) and the car has been sat on the drive for a week after that.
It might just be a duff battery, the car is only used once or twice a week or so for a short journey (less than 10 miles each way) so it doesn't get a great deal of opportunity to recharge the battery BUT it has been working 100% flawlessly for the past 3 months like that.
I think the Kenlowe fitting might be a red herring, but I'll see what the battery readings are tonight and go from there.
I've read a bit about the yellow connector, I'm not going to fixate on that but just out of interest where is it (so I can take a quick look at that later too).
I moved it AFTER the strange symptoms started (ignition coming on even with no key in) and the car has been sat on the drive for a week after that.
It might just be a duff battery, the car is only used once or twice a week or so for a short journey (less than 10 miles each way) so it doesn't get a great deal of opportunity to recharge the battery BUT it has been working 100% flawlessly for the past 3 months like that.
I think the Kenlowe fitting might be a red herring, but I'll see what the battery readings are tonight and go from there.
I've read a bit about the yellow connector, I'm not going to fixate on that but just out of interest where is it (so I can take a quick look at that later too).
Yellow connector is inside the lower steering column cover. There are short wires soldered to the back of the ignition switch which then go into one half of the yellow connector if you still have it. The other half is connected to the car loom. They carry a lot of load and get hot and eventually give an intermittent connection.
Rob.
Rob.
Does the search facility EVER work here?
Looking on the net i understand the yellow connector is insie the sterring collumn, so i assume i just remove the lower shroud and it should be there.
As the fault now appears to be "nothing at all happens when i switch on the ignition" (i.e. no lights of any description) I'll check the battery first and then look there...
Looking on the net i understand the yellow connector is insie the sterring collumn, so i assume i just remove the lower shroud and it should be there.
As the fault now appears to be "nothing at all happens when i switch on the ignition" (i.e. no lights of any description) I'll check the battery first and then look there...
Julesprivate said:
Does the search facility EVER work here?
Looking on the net i understand the yellow connector is insie the sterring collumn, so i assume i just remove the lower shroud and it should be there.
As the fault now appears to be "nothing at all happens when i switch on the ignition" (i.e. no lights of any description) I'll check the battery first and then look there...
I think the battery state will tell you a lot. From your first post (glowing ignition light with ignition off) it looks like a fault may have developed with the alternator diode which is allowing a slow drain on the battery, in which case it would be completely dead by now. May take a long slow charge to pull it back.Looking on the net i understand the yellow connector is insie the sterring collumn, so i assume i just remove the lower shroud and it should be there.
As the fault now appears to be "nothing at all happens when i switch on the ignition" (i.e. no lights of any description) I'll check the battery first and then look there...
Rob.
Thanks Rob (and everyone else). I'm stuck in work so have been doing a bit of reading. It seems the diode pack is the most likely culprit (if there is only one fault), when i went on holiday in June i lkeft the car with a garage to do a bit of work.
They commented that the car battery kept going flat and diagnosed a diode failure. I'd never had that issue before (battery going flat) but I had (JUST) fitted the Kenlowe kit, wired to the ignition feed to the exciter on the alternator.
Prior to that I had always had to "blip" the throttle to get the charging light to go out, when i got the car back I no longer needed to do that.
Last week i noticed the need to blip the throttle was back otherwise the battery light stayed on and the V-Meter didn't indicatea charge going to battery, but otherwise it was fine.
THEN the strange symptom of the battery light coming on even when I had the key in my pocket!
NOW a flat battery.
I wonder if when i connected the Kenlowe feed tot he exciter cct I managed to break the diode, which the garage replaced....and has promptly failed again.
I think/hope that moving the Kenlowe feed wire to somewhere else and then replacing the diode pack (again) might resolve the issue (after I charge the battery!). I'll call the garage tomorrow to order a diode pack, charge the battery and try it to see what happens.
I am definately starting to think this is all my fault... poor car!
They commented that the car battery kept going flat and diagnosed a diode failure. I'd never had that issue before (battery going flat) but I had (JUST) fitted the Kenlowe kit, wired to the ignition feed to the exciter on the alternator.
Prior to that I had always had to "blip" the throttle to get the charging light to go out, when i got the car back I no longer needed to do that.
Last week i noticed the need to blip the throttle was back otherwise the battery light stayed on and the V-Meter didn't indicatea charge going to battery, but otherwise it was fine.
THEN the strange symptom of the battery light coming on even when I had the key in my pocket!
NOW a flat battery.
I wonder if when i connected the Kenlowe feed tot he exciter cct I managed to break the diode, which the garage replaced....and has promptly failed again.
I think/hope that moving the Kenlowe feed wire to somewhere else and then replacing the diode pack (again) might resolve the issue (after I charge the battery!). I'll call the garage tomorrow to order a diode pack, charge the battery and try it to see what happens.
I am definately starting to think this is all my fault... poor car!
well good news and bad...
car is running again, battery was down to 2.5V. It charged up quickly and started OK...
Unfortunately the Kenlowe fan doesn't appear to be working at all now. I'v.e misplaced the wiring diagram but the fan doesn't come on at all now even though it is wired up correctly.
To check the probe I wired the ignition fed wire to the controller to the brakepad warning feed. When the probe get up to temperature the brakepad warning light comes on (so the probe i earthing OK) but the fan doesn't come on o i suspect the relay in the Kenlowe kit may have failed.
I'll pop out and hard wire the fan for the moment to see if the fan i Ok, then pop the relay off and bench test it.
As I need to blip the throttle to get the alternator to start charging I suspect the diodes have failed but clearly that's my fault!
car is running again, battery was down to 2.5V. It charged up quickly and started OK...
Unfortunately the Kenlowe fan doesn't appear to be working at all now. I'v.e misplaced the wiring diagram but the fan doesn't come on at all now even though it is wired up correctly.
To check the probe I wired the ignition fed wire to the controller to the brakepad warning feed. When the probe get up to temperature the brakepad warning light comes on (so the probe i earthing OK) but the fan doesn't come on o i suspect the relay in the Kenlowe kit may have failed.
I'll pop out and hard wire the fan for the moment to see if the fan i Ok, then pop the relay off and bench test it.
As I need to blip the throttle to get the alternator to start charging I suspect the diodes have failed but clearly that's my fault!
IT LIVES
OK so one thing is completely clear - this was all my fault! The poor car never stood a chance.
Logically it all makes sense now, hindsight is indeed 20/20.
I'd originally wired the 12V ignition source from the exciter cct on the alternator. That's the feed to the Kenlowe relay, so in cct diagram terms that meant I was earthing the exciter cct through the coil in the relay - not the best idea I've ever had. That effectively shorted the diodes out whenever the fan probe got up to temperature, so no wonder they have given up the ghost.
I then moved the 12V ignition feed to the brake fluid (not pad) warning cct, surmising that it'd put the brake warning light on when the probe got up to temperature (which it did indeed do). Unfortunately that cct can't flow enough current to actually energise the kenlowe relay so the fan didn't come on.
I've now moved it straight to the +ve terminal of the battery, so the fan runs independent of the ignition (but obviously only when the probe tells it to). it's not ideal, but it works for now.
Over the next couple of days I'll monitor things to see if the diodes do indeed drain the battery (I suspect they might) and if so I'll replace them.
For now I just need to "blip" the throttle once to excite the diodes and switch the alternator on (no big deal).
on the positive side my clock now works! from day 1 it's always had the hours counting up at one second intervals (stuck button) but no amount of teasing could get it to stop. Today whilst waiting for the fan to cut in a couple of times I removed the button, cleaned the contacts and put it back together, so now it reads the correct time for the first time in my ownership!
I also worked out how to get the stereo to play the MP3 tracks in random order which had been bugging me for ages - so all in all not a total waste of my time.
I owe the car a big apology for treating it so poorly, I think I'll take it in to work tomorrow, the scenic route....assuming the battery doesn't die overnight. LOL
Thanks for the help & support (and insight) - those of you who'd gathered it was "operator error" were indeed correct...
OK so one thing is completely clear - this was all my fault! The poor car never stood a chance.
Logically it all makes sense now, hindsight is indeed 20/20.
I'd originally wired the 12V ignition source from the exciter cct on the alternator. That's the feed to the Kenlowe relay, so in cct diagram terms that meant I was earthing the exciter cct through the coil in the relay - not the best idea I've ever had. That effectively shorted the diodes out whenever the fan probe got up to temperature, so no wonder they have given up the ghost.
I then moved the 12V ignition feed to the brake fluid (not pad) warning cct, surmising that it'd put the brake warning light on when the probe got up to temperature (which it did indeed do). Unfortunately that cct can't flow enough current to actually energise the kenlowe relay so the fan didn't come on.
I've now moved it straight to the +ve terminal of the battery, so the fan runs independent of the ignition (but obviously only when the probe tells it to). it's not ideal, but it works for now.
Over the next couple of days I'll monitor things to see if the diodes do indeed drain the battery (I suspect they might) and if so I'll replace them.
For now I just need to "blip" the throttle once to excite the diodes and switch the alternator on (no big deal).
on the positive side my clock now works! from day 1 it's always had the hours counting up at one second intervals (stuck button) but no amount of teasing could get it to stop. Today whilst waiting for the fan to cut in a couple of times I removed the button, cleaned the contacts and put it back together, so now it reads the correct time for the first time in my ownership!
I also worked out how to get the stereo to play the MP3 tracks in random order which had been bugging me for ages - so all in all not a total waste of my time.
I owe the car a big apology for treating it so poorly, I think I'll take it in to work tomorrow, the scenic route....assuming the battery doesn't die overnight. LOL
Thanks for the help & support (and insight) - those of you who'd gathered it was "operator error" were indeed correct...
phillpot said:
Think that's quite normal with an S ?
Is it? That's interesting.... I didn't need to do that when the diode pack was first installed..reading up on the net it seems this is a common thing, so not a problem, just something to be aware of I guess. That's cool
Edited by Julesprivate on Wednesday 29th August 21:47
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