Shock Horror - V8 911?
Discussion
Dont know if anyone else out there has seen this weeks Autocar? Well, shock horror one of the news items is the fact that the next generation 911 will have V8 power!!!
Now, Porsche have always stuck to the "evolution not revolution" principle and the 911 is one of the best examples of this. The car has nicely evolved over the years and is constantly kept on top of the group by the evolution developement they do. Ok, so the 996 is water cooled, but you have to admit that to get the increased power for that model they really did have to go water rather than air.... either way the 996 is still one of the best GT cars on the market (if not the best).
So why spoil the mix and drop a V8? It is lost on me. What are Porsche thinking? Ah, sorry USA - thinking of that market.... But it is going to ruin one of the best aspects of the 911 - the noise. Nothing else sounds like it out there - you can tell them a mile off (with sports exhaust).....
What is the world coming too? Porsche have just going DOWN in my estimation - and they are doing a 4x4 too. What ever next? 911 MPV? A super-mini to rival the Fiesta? How about a diesel?
Cheers,
Paul
Now, Porsche have always stuck to the "evolution not revolution" principle and the 911 is one of the best examples of this. The car has nicely evolved over the years and is constantly kept on top of the group by the evolution developement they do. Ok, so the 996 is water cooled, but you have to admit that to get the increased power for that model they really did have to go water rather than air.... either way the 996 is still one of the best GT cars on the market (if not the best).
So why spoil the mix and drop a V8? It is lost on me. What are Porsche thinking? Ah, sorry USA - thinking of that market.... But it is going to ruin one of the best aspects of the 911 - the noise. Nothing else sounds like it out there - you can tell them a mile off (with sports exhaust).....
What is the world coming too? Porsche have just going DOWN in my estimation - and they are doing a 4x4 too. What ever next? 911 MPV? A super-mini to rival the Fiesta? How about a diesel?
Cheers,
Paul
Well wasn't the story that the 911 was originally to be called 901 but that was a Peugeot registered name?
(Which is odd because: Ferrari and Pegeot have both produced a 206. Ferrari have done a 308 and you can see Peugeot doing that too. Is something going on here that we don't know about
)
PS Ferrari/BMW 328.
(Which is odd because: Ferrari and Pegeot have both produced a 206. Ferrari have done a 308 and you can see Peugeot doing that too. Is something going on here that we don't know about
) PS Ferrari/BMW 328.
Haven't seen this weeks Autocar yet Paul, but I'm not sure why you're so upset by Porsche using a V8 in the next evolution of the 911.
The change from air to water cooling was forced by emissions considerations primarily. The new V8 as seen in the Cayenne is a pretty good bet to be a remarkable motor given the quoted figures and Porsche's engine know-how.
If my information is correct - and not having seen the Autocar article I may be contradicted here - but the next version of the 911 is to have the choice of either Flat Six or V8 power ..... sounds like a pretty tasty combo to me.
If they were to ditch the Flat 6 I'm sure there would be a collective howl from Porsche purists, however I'd recommend them to drive the next incarnation first with an open mind before judging..... after all we'd all still be driving steam powered cars if car makers weren't allowed to change things....
The change from air to water cooling was forced by emissions considerations primarily. The new V8 as seen in the Cayenne is a pretty good bet to be a remarkable motor given the quoted figures and Porsche's engine know-how.
If my information is correct - and not having seen the Autocar article I may be contradicted here - but the next version of the 911 is to have the choice of either Flat Six or V8 power ..... sounds like a pretty tasty combo to me.
If they were to ditch the Flat 6 I'm sure there would be a collective howl from Porsche purists, however I'd recommend them to drive the next incarnation first with an open mind before judging..... after all we'd all still be driving steam powered cars if car makers weren't allowed to change things....
quote:
If they were to ditch the Flat 6 I'm sure there would be a collective howl from Porsche purists, however I'd recommend them to drive the next incarnation first with an open mind before judging..... after all we'd all still be driving steam powered cars if car makers weren't allowed to change things....
Yes, it is not the fact that the end result will probably be a very good car (by the way, when exactly did Porsche last make a crap car?). But in this age of making everything look / sound / drive the same then this is just another example. Ok, so a V8 sounds good, but lets be honest - for a world market the Porsche engineers will have to make it meet some serious emmissions regs. Therefore it will sound good, but not loud at all - and that traditional flat six was just so unique.
I am not knocking the fact that Porsche is being daft, as they are the most profitable car manufacturer in the world and that must count for something. The problem is that in the pursuit of more sales, they are loosing that unique "Porsche" element. It is a shame, but I guess inevitable.
So, come a year or so you will have the choice of the following:
Jaguar XKR - V8 Supercharger
Merc AMG SL55 - V8 Supercharger
Ferrari 360 - V8 (ok so slightly more than the rest here!)
Maserati 3200 - V8 Turbo
Porsche 911 - V8 Turbo & V8
All starting to look a very similar mechanical setup. It seems that only VW group and TVR are doing anything different. I mean W12's and W8's with a loverly Straight 6 thrown in - and why did TVR do the SP6 engine - cos they could (to be unique).
Car will probably sell loads, but lets face it - all starting to get just a little too commercial for my liking.
Cheers,
Paul
Paul, I agree with a lot of what you say - individuality is one of the most attractive thing about the 911, whatever incarnation - discerning owners tend to appreciate such things.
I don't think you have to worry so much though - basically because the flat 6 / 911 combination is a marketing man's dream - the very forces that threaten to "homogenise" (no time to check dictionary) sports cars cannot get away from the fact that the flat six is utterly addictive and will pull buyers like myself and I suspect you back to the fold for years to come.
The use of the Cayenne V8 is simply a logical step forward in terms of variation and sales. The fear is that the six is left in a cul-de-sac and not developed. I certainly hope it isn't, and my marketing instincts (for what they are worth) tell me that it won't be the case.
As for bag of nails Thom, respect your views - have enjoyed my own 924S and 944S2 and found the engines to be excellent - but couldn't disagree more about the 911 six cylinder. I didn't really understand until I bought my own (for reasons other than the engine) - now I can't resist putting the roof down and finding high walls to drive past or tunnels to go through.... it is utterly addictive...
I don't think you have to worry so much though - basically because the flat 6 / 911 combination is a marketing man's dream - the very forces that threaten to "homogenise" (no time to check dictionary) sports cars cannot get away from the fact that the flat six is utterly addictive and will pull buyers like myself and I suspect you back to the fold for years to come.
The use of the Cayenne V8 is simply a logical step forward in terms of variation and sales. The fear is that the six is left in a cul-de-sac and not developed. I certainly hope it isn't, and my marketing instincts (for what they are worth) tell me that it won't be the case.
As for bag of nails Thom, respect your views - have enjoyed my own 924S and 944S2 and found the engines to be excellent - but couldn't disagree more about the 911 six cylinder. I didn't really understand until I bought my own (for reasons other than the engine) - now I can't resist putting the roof down and finding high walls to drive past or tunnels to go through.... it is utterly addictive...
I think Porsche are striving to move the Boxster and 911 further apart. I know for 911 fans the Boxter will never be able to replace their beloved rear-engined beastie, but you have to admit that the Boxter S almost treads on the toes of lowlier 911's. A V8 option helps differentiate them a little more.
quote:
I think Porsche are striving to move the Boxster and 911 further apart. I know for 911 fans the Boxter will never be able to replace their beloved rear-engined beastie, but you have to admit that the Boxter S almost treads on the toes of lowlier 911's. A V8 option helps differentiate them a little more.
Good comment - didnt think of that one. What was the figure I heard - 63% of all Boxsters sold in the UK are the S model. Starts getting expensive and with a performance that is starting to get close to that of the 911 Carrera.... good observation.
Cheers,
Paul
quote:
I am not knocking the fact that Porsche is being daft, as they are the most profitable car manufacturer in the world and that must count for something.
Car will probably sell loads, but lets face it - all starting to get just a little too commercial for my liking.
And your point is?
quote:
now I can't resist putting the roof down and finding high walls to drive past or tunnels to go through.... it is utterly addictive...
Well, I admit my opinion is widely based on hearing the cars while not being aboard.
I have had several rides in 911s - in an early 3.2 and a 993 convertible with its roof down - but I can't remember having been particularly impressed. I suppose it is a whole different experience when you are in control of the loud pedal
I'm not very happy with some of porsche's recent decisions: the cayenne idea, ugly turbo 996 front end, no new RS model for ages. The present carrera could be the last proper 911. Mind you, I've been moaning about that since the demise of air cooling in the 993. But this time I mean it. The flat six is the only engine you could seriously consider putting in there. If they must have a 928 V8 again it should stand as a seperate model, not be forced onto the 911 icon.
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