Money working in IT
Discussion
Hi all,
I am a regular poster, posting under a pseudonym for this one. I am doing my own research and also hoping for the benefit of your experience.
I currently a partner in a small IT service company but the money is just 'OK' and, due to laziness of others involved, I can't see us doing more/earning more in future unless I drive it myself (for a small share of the profit). I would ideally keep this involvement, though on the back burner (evenings and weekends).
I am in my mid 30's and considering what direction to take in the next couple of years, purely to earn the most money as an individual.
I appreciate that things change all the time but what I am wondering is where is the big money in IT at the moment? Has anyone seen an individual in the field of IT earn £150,000 and upwards per annum in the last couple of years, be it contracting, in house, as a one man band limited company, or working for a service provider?
I am based in the north but would ideally combine travel for 3/4 days a week and telework so I should be able to work in the UK or Europe.
I am currently very hands on technical, as well as currently doing consultancy/quotes/credit control/internal systems/account management/HR. I can invest time and money developing my skills and qualifications in specific areas - if there is a route to big money there. A move into pure management or programming would be hardest for me, as I have always been a 'do-er' to some extent and have never been a commercial programmer, but I am not averse to going down those routes. I have touched on IT forensics in the past at work, which was very interesting/fulfilling, and wonder if there is any real money there.
So, thanks for your time in reading this - and can anyone tell me where the money is please??
I am a regular poster, posting under a pseudonym for this one. I am doing my own research and also hoping for the benefit of your experience.
I currently a partner in a small IT service company but the money is just 'OK' and, due to laziness of others involved, I can't see us doing more/earning more in future unless I drive it myself (for a small share of the profit). I would ideally keep this involvement, though on the back burner (evenings and weekends).
I am in my mid 30's and considering what direction to take in the next couple of years, purely to earn the most money as an individual.
I appreciate that things change all the time but what I am wondering is where is the big money in IT at the moment? Has anyone seen an individual in the field of IT earn £150,000 and upwards per annum in the last couple of years, be it contracting, in house, as a one man band limited company, or working for a service provider?
I am based in the north but would ideally combine travel for 3/4 days a week and telework so I should be able to work in the UK or Europe.
I am currently very hands on technical, as well as currently doing consultancy/quotes/credit control/internal systems/account management/HR. I can invest time and money developing my skills and qualifications in specific areas - if there is a route to big money there. A move into pure management or programming would be hardest for me, as I have always been a 'do-er' to some extent and have never been a commercial programmer, but I am not averse to going down those routes. I have touched on IT forensics in the past at work, which was very interesting/fulfilling, and wonder if there is any real money there.
So, thanks for your time in reading this - and can anyone tell me where the money is please??
Permie salaries of £150k basic tend to be CIO or Executive Director level. You might find some specialists inside Investment banking and hedge funds into £250k basics for non-heads of department.
As a contractor, £550 a day gets you the permie equivalent of around £200k per year but carries additional risks.
Specialists will get £700-800 per day, senior programme managers, programme directors and interim managers getting £1k-2k per day.
Unless you are a mathematical genius, you will need to move to London or New York full-time and spend 10 years getting training/experience. I know of contractors who do well on the Hong Kong/Singapore/Zurich/Euro circuits but they all did their fair share of time in London or New York.
So, if you want to get into the big money, it's in management. You will need to pick management or technical, in theory you can do both but it takes years more of experience to pull it off on your CV.
As a contractor, £550 a day gets you the permie equivalent of around £200k per year but carries additional risks.
Specialists will get £700-800 per day, senior programme managers, programme directors and interim managers getting £1k-2k per day.
Unless you are a mathematical genius, you will need to move to London or New York full-time and spend 10 years getting training/experience. I know of contractors who do well on the Hong Kong/Singapore/Zurich/Euro circuits but they all did their fair share of time in London or New York.
So, if you want to get into the big money, it's in management. You will need to pick management or technical, in theory you can do both but it takes years more of experience to pull it off on your CV.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Saturday 7th July 18:15
What are your IT skills and qualifications? Your post says very little about this, yet that would surely indicate what sectors and roles you should be targeting for future career progression.
You also slightly confuse me by stating "very hands on technical" and a "do-er", yet "programming would be hardest for me". If you're not a programmer and find it hard, then what are you technically good at?
I've been working as a contract programmer myself for several years, and decent money certainly is available if you have the right qualifications, skills and experience. However unless you are a particularly gifted individual, then starting from scratch it's going to take a number of years to learn the required skills and gain a track record before even appearing as a credible candidate.
You also slightly confuse me by stating "very hands on technical" and a "do-er", yet "programming would be hardest for me". If you're not a programmer and find it hard, then what are you technically good at?
I've been working as a contract programmer myself for several years, and decent money certainly is available if you have the right qualifications, skills and experience. However unless you are a particularly gifted individual, then starting from scratch it's going to take a number of years to learn the required skills and gain a track record before even appearing as a credible candidate.
Yes, I'm currently getting more than the figure you mentioned by working in Canary Wharf on a specialist, high profile migration.
Top end Programme Managers and developers can command good wages, but you need to have the skills and experience to back it up. Typically going from "break fix" type companies into this won't work
Sales may be another opportunity, but again experience needed
Top end Programme Managers and developers can command good wages, but you need to have the skills and experience to back it up. Typically going from "break fix" type companies into this won't work
Sales may be another opportunity, but again experience needed
Two well-trod ways to do this as an individual:
- Write software that sells well (three tricky bits: the idea, the development, the sales).
- Get the experience to command suitable contract rates (usually requires significant up-front time investment in corporate world before making the switch).
Thanks to all for the replies - food for thought!
Programming wise, I don't find it hard. The difficulty is the big gap between where I am now and the skill required of a commercially capable programmer. I started at home at an early age and got quite into VB6 at work (wrote a system audit tool using Windows API) but this was more a hobby than a commercial level of skill. I learn and retain info. It sounds arrogant but I am certain that I become commercially competent at a basic level in 1 to 2 years and continue constant learning to become an expert - IF I decide to specialise in programming. Old friends keep trying to drag me into SAP development.
I have a feeling that programming could become boring for me personally though - how do you find it?
The most plausible route at the moment seems to be belatedly getting on the virtualisation/private cloud wagon (getting VMWare/Xenserver certified), or maybe get in early on the next generation of Windows Server/Exchange server. I thought the demand for IPv6 skills might be on the up.
Olivera said:
What are your IT skills and qualifications? Your post says very little about this, yet that would surely indicate what sectors and roles you should be targeting for future career progression.
You also slightly confuse me by stating "very hands on technical" and a "do-er", yet "programming would be hardest for me". If you're not a programmer and find it hard, then what are you technically good at?
I've been working as a contract programmer myself for several years, and decent money certainly is available if you have the right qualifications, skills and experience. However unless you are a particularly gifted individual, then starting from scratch it's going to take a number of years to learn the required skills and gain a track record before even appearing as a credible candidate.
When I say hands on, I mean:You also slightly confuse me by stating "very hands on technical" and a "do-er", yet "programming would be hardest for me". If you're not a programmer and find it hard, then what are you technically good at?
I've been working as a contract programmer myself for several years, and decent money certainly is available if you have the right qualifications, skills and experience. However unless you are a particularly gifted individual, then starting from scratch it's going to take a number of years to learn the required skills and gain a track record before even appearing as a credible candidate.
- I have passed about 20 Microsoft exams, CCNA (and Novell Netware exams in the past!)
- 15 years continuous experience
- Completed many Exchange setups and migrations for SME's from 5.5/2000/2003/2007/2010
- Many Small Business Server migrations and deployments as well as multi-site Active Directory deployments, group policy creation, application packaging and deployment, internal/external DNS setup
- Citrix Metaframe Terminal Server deployment/application publishing
- Small scale Citrix Xenserver virtualisation deployments
- IT disaster recovery planning
- Multisite IPv4 network deployment with site to site VPN
- A bit of MS Office VBScripting
Programming wise, I don't find it hard. The difficulty is the big gap between where I am now and the skill required of a commercially capable programmer. I started at home at an early age and got quite into VB6 at work (wrote a system audit tool using Windows API) but this was more a hobby than a commercial level of skill. I learn and retain info. It sounds arrogant but I am certain that I become commercially competent at a basic level in 1 to 2 years and continue constant learning to become an expert - IF I decide to specialise in programming. Old friends keep trying to drag me into SAP development.
I have a feeling that programming could become boring for me personally though - how do you find it?
The most plausible route at the moment seems to be belatedly getting on the virtualisation/private cloud wagon (getting VMWare/Xenserver certified), or maybe get in early on the next generation of Windows Server/Exchange server. I thought the demand for IPv6 skills might be on the up.
ITPro said:
I have a feeling that programming could become boring for me personally though - how do you find it?
I find it is a tricky balance between earning money, keeping up with the latest developments and doing interesting work. At the moment I'm on a good contract but it's not the most interesting work and the client is certainly well behind the latest technology curve. It is exceptionally convenient though.Edited by ewenm on Saturday 7th July 21:50
discodeek said:
i work with a guy who contracts - Cisco CCIE -many many years a CCIE, daily rate of around £900.
other guys in the team that are CCNP and have good skills come and go on salaries of 45k to 60k...
But to be fair CCIE is fairly specialised, requires years of experience, and from what I hear a lot of study and investment, (1.5K to take the practical exam in France)? And usually a few attempts at that too apparently... other guys in the team that are CCNP and have good skills come and go on salaries of 45k to 60k...
Thanks again all - enjoying these replies! It is clear to me that I am currently stuck with smaller clients which leaves me with general skills (as opposed to specialised) and makes the route to larger scale enterprises longer.
I appreciate I am talking about very different skilled professions as if picking sweets in a shop, but I am thinking long term direction over 2/5/10 years.
Sales: I really don't think I am cut out for 100% sales! The best target might be 'enterprise sales support', e.g. attending pre-sales meetings to assess requirements and come up with a detailed proposal back at the office, and maybe project managing the rollout.
I realise CCIE would require me to move to a bigger service provider, telco or global company for many years and get exposure to much more Cisco kit than I currently see, and many exams before the fabled supervised practical exam!! I'll have a chat with a contact who is a CCIE/security specialist and see what route he went.
I am thinking it would be beneficial to direct our current small company into virtualisation/SAN and assuming I become the presales/implementation person, take a higher wage to address my smaller share ownership/profit slice.
I appreciate I am talking about very different skilled professions as if picking sweets in a shop, but I am thinking long term direction over 2/5/10 years.
Sales: I really don't think I am cut out for 100% sales! The best target might be 'enterprise sales support', e.g. attending pre-sales meetings to assess requirements and come up with a detailed proposal back at the office, and maybe project managing the rollout.
I realise CCIE would require me to move to a bigger service provider, telco or global company for many years and get exposure to much more Cisco kit than I currently see, and many exams before the fabled supervised practical exam!! I'll have a chat with a contact who is a CCIE/security specialist and see what route he went.
I am thinking it would be beneficial to direct our current small company into virtualisation/SAN and assuming I become the presales/implementation person, take a higher wage to address my smaller share ownership/profit slice.
Brother D said:
But to be fair CCIE is fairly specialised, requires years of experience, and from what I hear a lot of study and investment, (1.5K to take the practical exam in France)? And usually a few attempts at that too apparently...
A network person on 900 a day as a contractor would be exceptional, I have worked with triple and quad CCIE's who are not on no where near that a day. I have also worked with plenty of rubbish CCIEs so don't think that it will guarantee you a job or a rate. One of the testing centers is in Belgium not France.stneville said:
A network person on 900 a day as a contractor would be exceptional, I have worked with triple and quad CCIE's who are not on no where near that a day. I have also worked with plenty of rubbish CCIEs so don't think that it will guarantee you a job or a rate. One of the testing centers is in Belgium not France.
Indeed, I see some at £500 ish per dayTo me, this thread is back to front.
If you want to make that sort of money then the question you should be asking is how you can deliver value to a client/company sufficient to make it worth them paying big money.
The answer is that to be worth such sums you would need to deliver something quite significant either through management/business process improvement or sales. Value to large businesses is in significant projects.
Frankly small scale deployments such as you list in your experience are nowhere near the mark. Its all small scale technical stuff - it does not have the value to justify big money. Either gain business understanding or look for a niche where price isn't an issue - distress situations where things have gone badly wrong or where things going wrong has significant costs.
My first big earner was many years ago, £5000 for a weekend recovering a crashed server containing a key db which had been missed off the backup schedule.
And of your suggestions - SAP because it could give you a way into business processes.
If you want to make that sort of money then the question you should be asking is how you can deliver value to a client/company sufficient to make it worth them paying big money.
The answer is that to be worth such sums you would need to deliver something quite significant either through management/business process improvement or sales. Value to large businesses is in significant projects.
Frankly small scale deployments such as you list in your experience are nowhere near the mark. Its all small scale technical stuff - it does not have the value to justify big money. Either gain business understanding or look for a niche where price isn't an issue - distress situations where things have gone badly wrong or where things going wrong has significant costs.
My first big earner was many years ago, £5000 for a weekend recovering a crashed server containing a key db which had been missed off the backup schedule.
And of your suggestions - SAP because it could give you a way into business processes.
Edited by TooLateForAName on Sunday 8th July 14:43
You need to do one of two things:
1. Get your own personal skills up to a level where you can command a higher day rate, or the salary equivalent.
2. Get some kind of recurring revenue that adds to whatever dayrate you can command.
You will not achieve (1) by focusing on small businesses. You need either large scale corporate, or niche skills focused on a sector that commands high rates (maybe oil and gas).
Achieving (2) will require a change in business plan. Multiple clients, all on a retainer. Offering a range of services, some of which utilise lower paid staff where you take a cut etc.
Work out which option you prefer, and focus your short term objectives towards achieving that.
1. Get your own personal skills up to a level where you can command a higher day rate, or the salary equivalent.
2. Get some kind of recurring revenue that adds to whatever dayrate you can command.
You will not achieve (1) by focusing on small businesses. You need either large scale corporate, or niche skills focused on a sector that commands high rates (maybe oil and gas).
Achieving (2) will require a change in business plan. Multiple clients, all on a retainer. Offering a range of services, some of which utilise lower paid staff where you take a cut etc.
Work out which option you prefer, and focus your short term objectives towards achieving that.
ITPro said:
I appreciate that things change all the time but what I am wondering is where is the big money in IT at the moment? Has anyone seen an individual in the field of IT earn £150,000 and upwards per annum in the last couple of years, be it contracting, in house, as a one man band limited company, or working for a service provider?
Lots of them. All of whom are or were programmers, with the exception of a few sales people. And outside of the sales people none of them were in permanent positions without being directors.TooLateForAName said:
To me, this thread is back to front.
If you want to make that sort of money then the question you should be asking is how you can deliver value to a client/company sufficient to make it worth them paying big money.
Thanks for this. I know that I would have to bring considerable skills, experience and value to big enterprises to get to big money contracts. This thread has helped identify some examples of how it is being done at the moment, and it looks like commercial aware developers are top. It's a good idea to look specifically at where value has been added by well rewarded contractors in the past - I will have a think about that. If you want to make that sort of money then the question you should be asking is how you can deliver value to a client/company sufficient to make it worth them paying big money.
Edited by TooLateForAName on Sunday 8th July 14:43
0000 - Thanks for that input, interesting that you have seen many high earning programmers.
Has anyone reading been exposed to IT forensics, being an expert witness in court and so on? I guess the market for this is dependent on litigation or working for defendants, as the Police appear to do their own investigating.
ITPro said:
Has anyone reading been exposed to IT forensics, being an expert witness in court and so on? I guess the market for this is dependent on litigation or working for defendants, as the Police appear to do their own investigating.
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