Fuel Specs UK & USA
Discussion
Hi, Ive not posted for a while so please go easy, lol.
Is anyone on here clued up on Fuel types as I am looking at having some ECU's mapped from a well known company in the USA and my only worry is the map in question was developed using different fuel to ours as far as octane ratings go.
I asked the question and got this reply from said company, It sounds good but is it true?
''In the UK, Octane on fuels is quoted as ‘RON’ or ‘Research Octane Number.’ Without going into great detail as far as methodology, there is another common measurement system called ‘MON’ or ‘Motor Octane Number.’ MON typically yields a numerical value 10 points lower than RON from the same sample of fuel.
The Octane number quoted on the pump (PON or Pump Octane Number) in the USA and Canada is an average of RON & MON (RON + MON / 2.) So if you are comparing UK & USA fuel, you typically need to add 5-6 points to a USA Octane number to get the EU equivalent.
Our ECU tuning process allows us to optimize ignition timing for a variety of fuels (including race fuels) but our primary performance map for the Bentley Continental GT is set up on USA 93 Octane (widely available in most states) which is roughly equivalent to 98-99 RON. Hope that all makes sense, but the short answer is we’re mapping onto the quality of fuel which is normally available in the UK. From memory I think Tesco and a couple of others have the odd station that offers 101 RON but for the most part it is still 98/99''.
If i were to get the car mapped over here, I would need 4 wheel rolling road and someone with very good experience and feedback. I would prefer to have the car done on a RR with some kind of insurance against destroying my car?.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? est price i should expect to pay?
The company in the USA has offered a very reasonable price for the ECU flash (reasonable compared to others i might add) hence my interest, but the question im looking to answer is can i use a map produced to run on the american fuel grade.
Any help from you guys is much appreciated as i do not want to rush in and find myself destroying my car.
Cheers Gaz (EX NOBBER)
Is anyone on here clued up on Fuel types as I am looking at having some ECU's mapped from a well known company in the USA and my only worry is the map in question was developed using different fuel to ours as far as octane ratings go.
I asked the question and got this reply from said company, It sounds good but is it true?
''In the UK, Octane on fuels is quoted as ‘RON’ or ‘Research Octane Number.’ Without going into great detail as far as methodology, there is another common measurement system called ‘MON’ or ‘Motor Octane Number.’ MON typically yields a numerical value 10 points lower than RON from the same sample of fuel.
The Octane number quoted on the pump (PON or Pump Octane Number) in the USA and Canada is an average of RON & MON (RON + MON / 2.) So if you are comparing UK & USA fuel, you typically need to add 5-6 points to a USA Octane number to get the EU equivalent.
Our ECU tuning process allows us to optimize ignition timing for a variety of fuels (including race fuels) but our primary performance map for the Bentley Continental GT is set up on USA 93 Octane (widely available in most states) which is roughly equivalent to 98-99 RON. Hope that all makes sense, but the short answer is we’re mapping onto the quality of fuel which is normally available in the UK. From memory I think Tesco and a couple of others have the odd station that offers 101 RON but for the most part it is still 98/99''.
If i were to get the car mapped over here, I would need 4 wheel rolling road and someone with very good experience and feedback. I would prefer to have the car done on a RR with some kind of insurance against destroying my car?.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? est price i should expect to pay?
The company in the USA has offered a very reasonable price for the ECU flash (reasonable compared to others i might add) hence my interest, but the question im looking to answer is can i use a map produced to run on the american fuel grade.
Any help from you guys is much appreciated as i do not want to rush in and find myself destroying my car.
Cheers Gaz (EX NOBBER)
Hello, im not an expert on re-mapping but heres my thoughts.
If you don't want to risk destroying your car, I'd suggest shelving the idea of using a map set up for US fuel.
Pay the extra and have it done by someone here who has experience with the car as there may be variations between a UK ecu and what the US get.
There's also very little chance you'll find a rolling road that will provide insurance, I've been to a few and it's always at your own risk, not negotiable.
Best of luck
G
If you don't want to risk destroying your car, I'd suggest shelving the idea of using a map set up for US fuel.
Pay the extra and have it done by someone here who has experience with the car as there may be variations between a UK ecu and what the US get.
There's also very little chance you'll find a rolling road that will provide insurance, I've been to a few and it's always at your own risk, not negotiable.
Best of luck
G
US posters in the know will tell you their fuel is poor compared to ours.
If you were using a UK map in America I would be worried because the chances are the fuel would be lower octane and therefore more prone to knock on a map based on using say UK 98 fuel.
However given the concensus that UK fuel is better octane generally then I see no problem.
Putting higher octane fuel in than the map is set up on won't make a jot of difference, it would be like me putting Shell Optimax in my wifes Honda Jazz, pointless and expensive with no power gain because the mapping is set to run on 95.
The problem with the US map could be that they may play it safe and map for their lowest octane fuel (very likely to avoid litigation)and once you load it and use our "better fuel" the map can't / won't make use of it and you could end up with less power than you started with.
If you were using a UK map in America I would be worried because the chances are the fuel would be lower octane and therefore more prone to knock on a map based on using say UK 98 fuel.
However given the concensus that UK fuel is better octane generally then I see no problem.
Putting higher octane fuel in than the map is set up on won't make a jot of difference, it would be like me putting Shell Optimax in my wifes Honda Jazz, pointless and expensive with no power gain because the mapping is set to run on 95.
The problem with the US map could be that they may play it safe and map for their lowest octane fuel (very likely to avoid litigation)and once you load it and use our "better fuel" the map can't / won't make use of it and you could end up with less power than you started with.
Thanks for your replies, I am happy that the info given to me was correct so if thats the case there should be no issue using this map as its basically been tuned on the same fuel as ours.
I dont see based on the info given to me how the fuel is weaker?, is there more to it? Obviously there are variants of fuel but all i need to know is will the US map be safe on my car? If the info given is stating the map was produced on the equivalent fuel to our own so i do not see a problem?
The car is a Continental GT by the way, they have 2 ECU's for the W12 engine.
Once again thanks for your input
Gaz.
I dont see based on the info given to me how the fuel is weaker?, is there more to it? Obviously there are variants of fuel but all i need to know is will the US map be safe on my car? If the info given is stating the map was produced on the equivalent fuel to our own so i do not see a problem?
The car is a Continental GT by the way, they have 2 ECU's for the W12 engine.
Once again thanks for your input
Gaz.
I will now attempt to give all you great unwashed a master class on fuel 
RON (Research Octane Number) is the octane number you will see at all European roadside fuel stations. In America they display the AKI (Anti Knock Index) which is the average of RON and MON (Motor Octane Number). The British Standards minimum requirement for Premium Unleaded is 95RON and 85MON and Super Unleaded is 97RON and 86MON.
MON is determined in a single cylinder engine similar to the RON engine with a few changes that make operating conditions more severe and therefore the octane numbers are lower. The MON engine run at 900 RPM with a 300ºF (148.9ºC) mixture temperature. Spark advance varies with compression ratio. In a real world engine, MON is necessary to satisfy octane demands at wide open throttle. This is a very important number for racing engines since they spend a high percentage of their lives under high speed and high load conditions. Racing engines cannot afford to be short on octane quality, since detonation or preignition will quickly reduce a racing engine to junk.
The MON appetite of an engine with 13:1 compression ratio and a four inch bore varies with operating conditions but is normally around 101. To cover yourself for extreme conditions, it is wise to have an octane cushion, but there is no advantage to using a very high octane quality product if you do not need it - more octane does not give more power in that case which is a normal misunderstanding.
The octane quality of a gasoline is its ability to resist detonation, a form of abnormal combustion. Detonation occurs when the air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it can no longer keep from self igniting. Two types of abnormal combustion are common: the first is detonation as previously mentioned and the other is preignition.
RON is determined in a single cylinder variable compression ratio engine that operates at 600 RPM with a 125ºF (51.7ºC) inlet air temperature at standard barometric pressure. Spark advance is fixed at 13º BTDC. In a real world engine, RON is necessary to satisfy part throttle knock problems. High RON values are more important in carburetor engines than in fuel injector engines as the filling of the combustion chamber is not as efficient.
All of this means protection from detonation NOT power!
Detonation occurs after the sparkplug has ignited the air-fuel mixture and the flame front is moving through the combustion chamber. If, during this burning process, the unburned air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it is no longer stable, it will explode (burn up to 10 times faster) and as a result increase pressure on the piston before Top Dead Centre (TDC). Piston burning and rod bearing damage are the result as well of loss of power.
Most of this is vital for race engines. It is written with that in mind because a lot of you trck your cars and even for road use the stresses are greater than a "Honda Jizz" so it is still relevent.
Are there any qustions? No?
Class dismissed.
RON (Research Octane Number) is the octane number you will see at all European roadside fuel stations. In America they display the AKI (Anti Knock Index) which is the average of RON and MON (Motor Octane Number). The British Standards minimum requirement for Premium Unleaded is 95RON and 85MON and Super Unleaded is 97RON and 86MON.
MON is determined in a single cylinder engine similar to the RON engine with a few changes that make operating conditions more severe and therefore the octane numbers are lower. The MON engine run at 900 RPM with a 300ºF (148.9ºC) mixture temperature. Spark advance varies with compression ratio. In a real world engine, MON is necessary to satisfy octane demands at wide open throttle. This is a very important number for racing engines since they spend a high percentage of their lives under high speed and high load conditions. Racing engines cannot afford to be short on octane quality, since detonation or preignition will quickly reduce a racing engine to junk.
The MON appetite of an engine with 13:1 compression ratio and a four inch bore varies with operating conditions but is normally around 101. To cover yourself for extreme conditions, it is wise to have an octane cushion, but there is no advantage to using a very high octane quality product if you do not need it - more octane does not give more power in that case which is a normal misunderstanding.
The octane quality of a gasoline is its ability to resist detonation, a form of abnormal combustion. Detonation occurs when the air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it can no longer keep from self igniting. Two types of abnormal combustion are common: the first is detonation as previously mentioned and the other is preignition.
RON is determined in a single cylinder variable compression ratio engine that operates at 600 RPM with a 125ºF (51.7ºC) inlet air temperature at standard barometric pressure. Spark advance is fixed at 13º BTDC. In a real world engine, RON is necessary to satisfy part throttle knock problems. High RON values are more important in carburetor engines than in fuel injector engines as the filling of the combustion chamber is not as efficient.
All of this means protection from detonation NOT power!
Detonation occurs after the sparkplug has ignited the air-fuel mixture and the flame front is moving through the combustion chamber. If, during this burning process, the unburned air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it is no longer stable, it will explode (burn up to 10 times faster) and as a result increase pressure on the piston before Top Dead Centre (TDC). Piston burning and rod bearing damage are the result as well of loss of power.
Most of this is vital for race engines. It is written with that in mind because a lot of you trck your cars and even for road use the stresses are greater than a "Honda Jizz" so it is still relevent.
Are there any qustions? No?
Class dismissed.
sunoco69 said:
I will now attempt to give all you great unwashed a master class on fuel
RON (Research Octane Number) is the octane number you will see at all European roadside fuel stations. In America they display the AKI (Anti Knock Index) which is the average of RON and MON (Motor Octane Number). The British Standards minimum requirement for Premium Unleaded is 95RON and 85MON and Super Unleaded is 97RON and 86MON.
MON is determined in a single cylinder engine similar to the RON engine with a few changes that make operating conditions more severe and therefore the octane numbers are lower. The MON engine run at 900 RPM with a 300ºF (148.9ºC) mixture temperature. Spark advance varies with compression ratio. In a real world engine, MON is necessary to satisfy octane demands at wide open throttle. This is a very important number for racing engines since they spend a high percentage of their lives under high speed and high load conditions. Racing engines cannot afford to be short on octane quality, since detonation or preignition will quickly reduce a racing engine to junk.
The MON appetite of an engine with 13:1 compression ratio and a four inch bore varies with operating conditions but is normally around 101. To cover yourself for extreme conditions, it is wise to have an octane cushion, but there is no advantage to using a very high octane quality product if you do not need it - more octane does not give more power in that case which is a normal misunderstanding.
The octane quality of a gasoline is its ability to resist detonation, a form of abnormal combustion. Detonation occurs when the air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it can no longer keep from self igniting. Two types of abnormal combustion are common: the first is detonation as previously mentioned and the other is preignition.
RON is determined in a single cylinder variable compression ratio engine that operates at 600 RPM with a 125ºF (51.7ºC) inlet air temperature at standard barometric pressure. Spark advance is fixed at 13º BTDC. In a real world engine, RON is necessary to satisfy part throttle knock problems. High RON values are more important in carburetor engines than in fuel injector engines as the filling of the combustion chamber is not as efficient.
All of this means protection from detonation NOT power!
Detonation occurs after the sparkplug has ignited the air-fuel mixture and the flame front is moving through the combustion chamber. If, during this burning process, the unburned air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it is no longer stable, it will explode (burn up to 10 times faster) and as a result increase pressure on the piston before Top Dead Centre (TDC). Piston burning and rod bearing damage are the result as well of loss of power.
Most of this is vital for race engines. It is written with that in mind because a lot of you trck your cars and even for road use the stresses are greater than a "Honda Jizz" so it is still relevent.
Are there any qustions? No?
Class dismissed.
Honda Jizz !! How very dare you.RON (Research Octane Number) is the octane number you will see at all European roadside fuel stations. In America they display the AKI (Anti Knock Index) which is the average of RON and MON (Motor Octane Number). The British Standards minimum requirement for Premium Unleaded is 95RON and 85MON and Super Unleaded is 97RON and 86MON.
MON is determined in a single cylinder engine similar to the RON engine with a few changes that make operating conditions more severe and therefore the octane numbers are lower. The MON engine run at 900 RPM with a 300ºF (148.9ºC) mixture temperature. Spark advance varies with compression ratio. In a real world engine, MON is necessary to satisfy octane demands at wide open throttle. This is a very important number for racing engines since they spend a high percentage of their lives under high speed and high load conditions. Racing engines cannot afford to be short on octane quality, since detonation or preignition will quickly reduce a racing engine to junk.
The MON appetite of an engine with 13:1 compression ratio and a four inch bore varies with operating conditions but is normally around 101. To cover yourself for extreme conditions, it is wise to have an octane cushion, but there is no advantage to using a very high octane quality product if you do not need it - more octane does not give more power in that case which is a normal misunderstanding.
The octane quality of a gasoline is its ability to resist detonation, a form of abnormal combustion. Detonation occurs when the air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it can no longer keep from self igniting. Two types of abnormal combustion are common: the first is detonation as previously mentioned and the other is preignition.
RON is determined in a single cylinder variable compression ratio engine that operates at 600 RPM with a 125ºF (51.7ºC) inlet air temperature at standard barometric pressure. Spark advance is fixed at 13º BTDC. In a real world engine, RON is necessary to satisfy part throttle knock problems. High RON values are more important in carburetor engines than in fuel injector engines as the filling of the combustion chamber is not as efficient.
All of this means protection from detonation NOT power!
Detonation occurs after the sparkplug has ignited the air-fuel mixture and the flame front is moving through the combustion chamber. If, during this burning process, the unburned air-fuel mixture reaches a temperature and/or pressure at which it is no longer stable, it will explode (burn up to 10 times faster) and as a result increase pressure on the piston before Top Dead Centre (TDC). Piston burning and rod bearing damage are the result as well of loss of power.
Most of this is vital for race engines. It is written with that in mind because a lot of you trck your cars and even for road use the stresses are greater than a "Honda Jizz" so it is still relevent.
Are there any qustions? No?
Class dismissed.
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff