Higgs...

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Discussion

Gene Vincent

Original Poster:

4,002 posts

173 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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It will be announced on the 4th July that it has been found to a certainty of 4 sigma (maybe 5!)... but there is a twist in the tale.

Simpo Two

88,999 posts

280 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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What's 4 sigma in decimals?

Whitefly Swatter

1,128 posts

214 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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Simpo Two said:
What's 4 sigma in decimals?
A level of "five sigma" is required to claim a discovery, meaning there is less than a one in a million chance the data spike is down to a statistical fluke

Six Sigma, which equates to 3.4 DPMO, or 99.9997% defect-free. Five Sigma = 233 DPMO, or 99.98% defect-free

Five Sigma = 233 DPMO, or 99.98% defect-free

Four Sigma = 6,210 DPMO, or 99.4% defect-free

Three Sigma = 66,807 DPMO, or 93.3% defect-free

Two Sigma = 308,538 DPMO, or 69.1% defect-free

One Sigma = 691,462 DPMO, or 30.9% defect-free


AJI

5,180 posts

232 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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What is this 'twist'?

I was at CERN only a few weeks ago on a holiday trip. I was asking the tour guides various questions and they were adament they were close to confirmation. Well more an exlusion process rather than discovery process was the general theme I got. But as I'm not an expert in this field I could have misinterpreted it.


Gene Vincent

Original Poster:

4,002 posts

173 months

Friday 29th June 2012
quotequote all
AJI said:
What is this 'twist'?

I was at CERN only a few weeks ago on a holiday trip. I was asking the tour guides various questions and they were adament they were close to confirmation. Well more an exlusion process rather than discovery process was the general theme I got. But as I'm not an expert in this field I could have misinterpreted it.
My guess... a new branch of science finally grasping the existence of a further dimension to account for the vast majority of mass that it is not accounted for by the Higgs.

The Higgs as we now know it can't account for either 99% of mass nor any real account for gravity.

It is but a vague shadow of what it was hoped to be.

Simpo Two

88,999 posts

280 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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Is 'defect-free' the same as probabilty?

NorthernBoy

12,642 posts

272 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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Whitefly Swatter said:
A level of "five sigma" is required to claim a discovery, meaning there is less than a one in a million chance the data spike is down to a statistical fluke
That's not quite right. It's one in a million chance that the results would be at this level or greater if the phenomenon were not to exist. It's a subtle, but important, difference.

jbudgie

9,396 posts

227 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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Gene Vincent said:
It will be announced on the 4th July that it has been found to a certainty of 4 sigma (maybe 5!)... but there is a twist in the tale.
How do you know this ?

Simpo Two

88,999 posts

280 months

Friday 29th June 2012
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I deduce that Higgs bosons allow you to travel in time...

jbudgie

9,396 posts

227 months

Sunday 1st July 2012
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biggrin

hornet

6,333 posts

265 months

Sunday 1st July 2012
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If they find the Higgs, should they also start finding the lighter superpartners, or is that still beyond the capabilities of the LHC? My understanding was the LHC has yet to be properly turned up to eleven? Be interesting to see what they say!

JohneeBoy

509 posts

190 months

Monday 2nd July 2012
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I'll be at a recording for The Infinite Monkey Cage later today, a show hosted by Brian Cox, so maybe some insight will be given there.

jshell

11,512 posts

220 months

Monday 2nd July 2012
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hornet said:
If they find the Higgs, should they also start finding the lighter superpartners, or is that still beyond the capabilities of the LHC? My understanding was the LHC has yet to be properly turned up to eleven? Be interesting to see what they say!
I'm off to buy tinned beans and more ammo and timber for the doors and windows. I'm not getting caught out by the black hole or zombie apocalypse.

Use Psychology

11,327 posts

207 months

Monday 2nd July 2012
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I think whatever they've found may have a different mass from what people were expecting.

Derek Smith

47,461 posts

263 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2012
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Strongest suggestion yet that CERN has something of note to disclose as Tevatron want a share of the publicity:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-co...

Gene Vincent

Original Poster:

4,002 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2012
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I hate it when the press gets hold of this as they always get it wrong.

Any Higgs presence will not solve mass, it 'may' solve rest mass of particles, but that is an insubstantial amount of overall mass.

It is nothing like any form whatsoever of a 'God' particle.

What it should do, with luck, is give us a number for a 'planckian type' of minimal rest-mass unit... effectively a further 'constant' and that is Physics is a big thing.

The thing is that particles should really have zero mass, but they don't... so our model falls apart rather disastrously, the Electron rest-mass may proven not to be fundamental and the Higgs mechanism causes such... this is good as the alternative is that each electron produces its own field giving itself a rest-mass through interaction of singular fields, this is a dreadful thought as in nature such profligate energy use is all wrong.

Simpo Two

88,999 posts

280 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2012
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So the Higgs boson is the equivalent of the Euro - ie, it 'has' to be there because the alternative is distasteful?

Gene Vincent

Original Poster:

4,002 posts

173 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2012
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Simpo Two said:
So the Higgs boson is the equivalent of the Euro - ie, it 'has' to be there because the alternative is distasteful?
More than distasteful, closer to disastrous.

Use Psychology

11,327 posts

207 months

Tuesday 3rd July 2012
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no way, it'd be ace. nothing better could happen to physics than discovering a great, gaping hole at the centre of it all. think of advances that we would make.