Cayman 2.7 - less problems than the 3.4s?
Discussion
Hi,
I am considering a Porsche Cayman S for my next car (2006/07 model year), but after reading forum posts (from forums around the world) am slightly concerned at the number of catastrophic engine related problems these cars seem to have. Along the way I did read that the 2.7 model was not prone to these problems? But with all the forum related overload am not sure if I read that right or not. Is this the case, or is this car also subject to the same design flaws?
I am considering a Porsche Cayman S for my next car (2006/07 model year), but after reading forum posts (from forums around the world) am slightly concerned at the number of catastrophic engine related problems these cars seem to have. Along the way I did read that the 2.7 model was not prone to these problems? But with all the forum related overload am not sure if I read that right or not. Is this the case, or is this car also subject to the same design flaws?
I really like the small engine:
- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I do wonder what the percentage of failures are and also read that it is a case of when, rather than if bore scoring happens. This means owning without a warranty is something I can't gamble on. Unfortunately in my price range the cars are 5 to 6 years old, which means a max of 2 years or so OPC warranty. Apparently even so much as having the wheels painted outside of the dealer network or changing the audio system would void the warranty!!! Seems excessive.I looked at Warranty Wise as an alternative, but when pressed they said they would not pay out for RMS or bore scoring problems.
nickfrog said:
I really like the small engine:
- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
I read a good article that said just this (went so far as to say they preferred the 2.7 over the 3.4 as a road car). So if it is more reliable, maybe its something I can consider and get something slightly newer and be able to warranty it for longer. Problem is there doesn't seem to be that many for sale at OPC dealerships.- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
mollytherocker said:
Who was the designer in charge of the M96 engine? I would love to know.
Maybe we could visit him in the small hours....
MTR
I originally thought 996 C4S as these were within my price reach, read several horrific stories so changed my mind, then thought of the cayman, presuming it was newer and these problems would be designed out.... How wrong could I be, things just sounded worse and worse. The more I read the more I couldnt belive it. I had always presumed Porsche was at least as reliable as BMW or Merc. I always make sure I have the warranty just in case (I have the BMW warranty for my Z4 coupe), but these problems would always be on my mind and I am not convinced I would enjoy the car as much. Just read a recent posting about a 2009 Cayman S with only 10K miles. New engine!!! Maybe we could visit him in the small hours....
MTR
The cayman has the M97 engine, so has a much better IMS bearing. I have seen Baz from Hartec comment that these are much more reliable. He has also said that they don't get any 2.7's with scored bores, and it's mainly the larger engined Porsches.
I have been toying with getting an OPC warranty myself to guard against this (see my thread on the matter), however, myself I am leaning towards not doing this given I might change the exhaust in time, and the cost saving of not getting a PSE and OPC waranty is half the cost of an engine rebuild.
It's impossible to determine whether it's a case of 'when' rather than 'if' as the cars are no old enough. However, there are some high mileage cars for sales which don't list engine rebuild in the advert (people do tend to put this as some kind of plus point), and you need to also consider Hartecs conclusion on a significant contributing factor - full bore starts when the engine is very hot.
IMO, its still a small fraction of cars worldwide that suffer this fate. If its was every car at an average mileage of say 50K then surely it would be more widley known beyond Internet forums like this (which do make any issue seems like a frequent problem).
It would be interesting to sum up the number of actual google hits you get for failed cayman engines, and contrast this against the number of cars out there, or at least cars who's owner is a member of a forum (I appreciate this is not easy).
Edit:
I personally found the 2.7 and indeed the newer 2.9 a bit slow. However, I was driving a ridiculous Impreza at the time which was faster than a rocket. Now having owned a Cayman S for a few months I will say I can see the appeal of having to work it slightly harder. Also, once you really wind the S up you can find yourself going a bit too quick (it seems to come alive after 60). Having said that, I don't regret the choice as my S is mainly on the motorway with work runs, and the extra grunt can put a simile on your face.
I have been toying with getting an OPC warranty myself to guard against this (see my thread on the matter), however, myself I am leaning towards not doing this given I might change the exhaust in time, and the cost saving of not getting a PSE and OPC waranty is half the cost of an engine rebuild.
It's impossible to determine whether it's a case of 'when' rather than 'if' as the cars are no old enough. However, there are some high mileage cars for sales which don't list engine rebuild in the advert (people do tend to put this as some kind of plus point), and you need to also consider Hartecs conclusion on a significant contributing factor - full bore starts when the engine is very hot.
IMO, its still a small fraction of cars worldwide that suffer this fate. If its was every car at an average mileage of say 50K then surely it would be more widley known beyond Internet forums like this (which do make any issue seems like a frequent problem).
It would be interesting to sum up the number of actual google hits you get for failed cayman engines, and contrast this against the number of cars out there, or at least cars who's owner is a member of a forum (I appreciate this is not easy).
Edit:
I personally found the 2.7 and indeed the newer 2.9 a bit slow. However, I was driving a ridiculous Impreza at the time which was faster than a rocket. Now having owned a Cayman S for a few months I will say I can see the appeal of having to work it slightly harder. Also, once you really wind the S up you can find yourself going a bit too quick (it seems to come alive after 60). Having said that, I don't regret the choice as my S is mainly on the motorway with work runs, and the extra grunt can put a simile on your face.
Edited by paulmoonraker on Tuesday 26th June 09:05
andys_ctr said:
nickfrog said:
I really like the small engine:
- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
I read a good article that said just this (went so far as to say they preferred the 2.7 over the 3.4 as a road car). So if it is more reliable, maybe its something I can consider and get something slightly newer and be able to warranty it for longer. Problem is there doesn't seem to be that many for sale at OPC dealerships.- you have to work it harder so it sounds great more often and it might get better IMS lubrication
- you really have to lean on the chassis so it rewards the smooth driver
- it's a bit cheaper to run
- you stand a better chance to keep your licence
- it usually comes with smaller wheels
uktrailmonster said:
After driving both at length back-to-back (Boxster in my case) I preferred the smaller engine overall too. It's still pretty quick and sounds sweeter. I thought it suited the car better for the sort of driving I usually do on twisty country roads.
There are quite a lot of people who prefer the 2.7 to the S. I'm another.I also remember Baz (Hartech) saying that the tiptronics tend to suffer more than the manuals, as it is partly down to the way they are driven. If you use the torque, lots of low speed high gear driving as down by the tip, then this leaves the engine more prone to scoring than using a lower gear and high revs.
Also if you are on a blast and so it is running hot and have to sit at traffic lights for a while and gun it from the standing start this isn't so good. But general high spirited driving is good for it.
Also if you are on a blast and so it is running hot and have to sit at traffic lights for a while and gun it from the standing start this isn't so good. But general high spirited driving is good for it.
uktrailmonster said:
I've got a real £9K bill for a 996 3.6 rebuild in the history folder after bore scoring. That should give you a good idea of the potential cost IF it goes wrong. Warranty is the way to go if you are really worried about it.
I relented. Mines booked in to OPC Colchester for a warranty.I had a 2.7 with the 'Sports' option (6 speed 'box & PASM), Sport Chrono and 18" 'S' wheels. And the std leatherette/alcantara seats.
On give or take UK roads it was the best car I've ever driven, great balance, ample performance (3 figures in 3rd gear), lovely steering, and >30mpg easily. A 977C4S I tried was a lumpen think in comparison.
The only time I wanted more power was uphill on a circuit.
SS7
On give or take UK roads it was the best car I've ever driven, great balance, ample performance (3 figures in 3rd gear), lovely steering, and >30mpg easily. A 977C4S I tried was a lumpen think in comparison.
The only time I wanted more power was uphill on a circuit.
SS7
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