Wednesday 4th August 2004

Killer Pillars

Thick A pillars could cost bikers lives

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An article published today in the September issue of BIKE magazine has shown that windscreen pillars obstructing a driver’s vision are likely to be a major factor in road accidents.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign, has joined forces with the editorial team of Britain’s best selling motorcycling monthly magazine to highlight this serious, but largely unrecognised safety problem.

Paul commented, "This problem came to my attention way back in the early 80s. I was driving a car in London, turning right from a side road into a one way system. As I started to turn a motorbike literally appeared from nowhere. I managed to stop, but was intrigued and drove around the block again….it was instantly obvious that motorbikes were being completely obscured from view by my nearside windscreen pillar".

Rich Beach, News Editor of Bike magazine commented, "When Paul Smith raised the screen pillar issue with us, we were astonished by how little research has been done on the subject, but in the course of investigating and writing the Bike magazine feature, it became clear that it is a huge problem, and one that we need to draw attention to.

The research we have accessed indicates that a huge number of motorcycle accidents (almost 70%) involve a car, truck or bus, and that over 70% of these accidents were caused by "perception error" – all too often bikes are just not being seen".

The last official research in the UK into obstruction by windscreen pillars was carried out over 40 years ago in 1963. More recently, the Department of Transport studied "look but failed to see" (LBFtS) accidents, LBFtS being a contributory factor in 20% of all road accidents, however the possibility of windscreen pillar obscuration wasn’t even considered.

Adam Duckworth, publisher of Bike feels that this is a massive safety problem, that has simply been overlooked. "Passenger protection is a obviously a priority for car manufacturers, but having looked at all the facts, we believe that accidents could be avoided in the first place if windscreen pillars were designed to allow optimum vision.

[TripleS]

With our Peugeot 406 I find the view to the right is appreciably restricted by the thickness of the A post combined with the door frame, and it can be enough to create difficulties when arriving at roundabouts etc.

I remember the Ford advertising for their Consul, Zephyr and Zodiac range around the late 1950s made a particular point of emphasising the large glass area, slim pillars and good visibility, and those cars were good in that respect.

That policy has apparently been replaced by a concern for structural strength in the event of a crash, but I do feel it has now made certain types of accident more likely. In fact the general visibility from many modern cars is now relatively poor, not only due to the A post thickness, but views to the rear generally, thanks to high boot lines and head rests etc.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[anonymous-user]

I can't find a reference just now, but I'm sure I've heard people saying that safety legislation has forced an increase in the A-pillar size on manufacturers.

It may have been mentioned in talking about a feature of a Volvo concept recently that had perspex "windows" in the A-Pillar to improve visibility. It seems as if this might be a good idea for future production vehicles.
Volvo SCC Concept

[rsvmille]

You beat me to it Mr LexSport...Or Ms!

I am involved in the car design industry and it is a point of concern for Volvo. Companies do do roll over tests and this has a big influence on the structure used in the A pillar. Future materials and production techniques will allow a Volvo concept like solution but untill the manufactures are forced into this direction it won't happen. Nearly all safety features are driven by the american insurance companies and more recently the IIHS (Canada) and Thatcham (UK).

A dim view of this is that these people would suggest banning bikes or fitting airbags to your handle bars before any good ideas come about......Sorry to be so glum!

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Yeah an interesting point as I noticed that in my Pug 306 there was a significant blind spot from the A-pillar that was not there on my 205s.

I'm certain thickness plays a part but also if you are sitting closer to the pillar it simply isn't in the way. On the 306 I found myself looking out of the driver's door window rather than windscreen to see around the pillar!

Me ponders whether the effect is more caused by how far back from the screen the driver now is when compared to older designs rather than the thickness of it. If it isn't in the way then thickness is not a problem!

Rob

[cmsapms]

I drive a Range Rover Classic (thin screen pillars) and a Westfield (no screen let alone pillars). Yesterday I drove down to Southampton (from Yorkshire) and back in a hired Pug 307. I couldn't believe how much I had to move my whole upper body around just to make sure I could look round the A pillars.

Recently I've become more and more aware of drivers apparently 'not bothering' to look out of the windows. Now I'm not so sure; maybe they're doing their best, but being foiled by crap 'nanny state' design.

Paul

[BliarOut]

Looked at from a bikers perspective, I always position myself so I can look into the drivers eyes as they do their preliminaries before pulling out. There is a a very large area where you can hide now and hide the dirvers head from your own view.

Anything that can elevate Paul Smiths work and debunk the "speed kills" lobby has to be a good thing. It's about time we slung out the muppets running the roads at the moment and got some people in there who actually understand what constitutes an improvement in safety!!

[skid]

Agree whole heartedy as I've felt this has been a problem area for the past 5 years.

I read the article in Bike a few days ago and was extremely impressed by the Volvo concept. A first for me to praise them but it is definately due!

I think things are going to get worse too. Look at a modern Cabrio-gays ,BMW, Merc, Volvo, Jag and even mainstream hairdresser cars, they all have whopping 'A' pillars to take the weight of the heavy cars, and I'm sure they are bigger than each models tin topped sister.

Mark

[tone]

I agree with Paul's analysis completely. In my previous car I have twice found myself missing whole cars, let alone bikes, when looking left before turning right out of a T junction.

Not so bad with the current daily but my previous (Volvo convertible) had bloody great A pillars (designed to take the weight of the car in the event of a roll-over).

Daft thing is I'm an ex-biker so I've always been very careful to have a proper look and drummed it into my kids when they started driving!

[telecat]

I first noticed this on the current Mondeo and its bad on the Almeira and New Golf. Didn't notice it so much on the 25/45 or the 323 ZXI.

[sagalout]

cmsapms said:

I drive a Range Rover Classic (thin screen pillars) and a Westfield (no screen let alone pillars). Yesterday I drove down to Southampton (from Yorkshire) and back in a hired Pug 307. I couldn't believe how much I had to move my whole upper body around just to make sure I could look round the A pillars. Paul

Same surprise to me when I got in a Focus a few years ago.

Then they put that black dot stuff round the glass edge.....

[goo-goo-gjoob]

I also loose entire cars in the A pillar. Usually happens when they are far away but approaching fast. I would rather look carefully than have pillars like that VW though, sorry

[NikB]

I constantly struggle to see were to turn in on roundabouts etc on the drivers side in the Civic because of the huge A pillar. I can see how this could cause safety issues.

[Pies]

Trust me on this the pillars on the Vauxhall Zarira are a major obstruction to vision

[ribbo]

and has anyone been in a Ford Ka(ck) recently worst of the lot and with the crap mirrors and the crap back windows it's even worse.. horrible.

[S2rr Kitty]

Agree with all the above.... I have to really crane my neck to see round the pillars in the S2, this is not the only problem.... looking round over your shoulder to get your blind spot is also tricky.

[bad_roo]

Believe it or not, but there is a restriction on exactly how many degrees of forward visibility can be obscured by the windscreen pillar. An EC directive that dates from 1977 allows obstruction of up to six degrees, using both eyes, from the driving seat, applying to both driver and passenger screen pillars.

Hard to see how a Peugeot 206CC or a Citroen Pluriel gets by that one.

[victormeldrew]

My missus has an A2, and its quite possible to miss whole corners, let alone cars or bikes, due to the size and position of the A pillars. You have to do an impression of a nodding dog at junctions to make sure you get a good view.

[hertsbiker]

scary stuff. I hate to think that there might be bad drivers out there, combined with poor vis... let alone good drivers in crap cars. ALmost enough to make you quit. NOT !!!

[Avocet]

There is a type approval requirement for forward visibility that sets a limit to the angle tha tthe "A" pillar can obscure. It's quite complex to work out and cars wit hsteeply raked pillars tend to do better than ones with more vertical pillars because with a steep pillar, the angle that is obscured to BOTH eyes is realtively smaller than the same section of pillar if it was more upright. Modern cars definitely have thicker pillars to beef them up for crash resistance (and rollover resistance) but the penalty is poorer visibility. We recently hired a Citroen C3 on holiday and I was astounded at how lousy it was - downright dangerous if you ask me!

[nicklondon]

I drive a transit connect van for work and the a piller hides vans at round abouts.