So what are you going to do about it????
Discussion
I've been reading ph for several months now, and one thing seems to happen time and time again......Jaguar (the cars and the company) get slated 
berated 
and slandered 
- just the latest of which were the comments on the design change of F-Type, followed by its predictable demise into the lonely bookshelves of a Ford archive.
They have 4 vehicle lines, only one of which (to my knowledge) makes any significant profit - the XK8 / XKR. But even they have their problems
They, reportedly, spent $1bn to produce an AWD Mondeo - still haven't figured that one out!
So the question is this: What would you do about it if you were in charge?
Is it time for a complete company overhaul?
Are the days of long bonnets and radiator grills numbered, or they integral and compulsory design themes of a Jaguar car?
Would you keep Jag under the ownership of Ford, or cut them free (or maybe a mix of the two - make it an autonomous part of Ford)
Is it time for Jaguar to expand their product range? Possibly a lovely little AWD off-roader
What are the key areas of Jaguar that need development? Ride? Comfort? NVH? Durability & Reliability? The advertising?
Now's your chance to recreate what should be a Great British Marque (on computer, at least!)
>>> Edited by mtmrop on Thursday 6th June 00:58
berated and slandered - just the latest of which were the comments on the design change of F-Type, followed by its predictable demise into the lonely bookshelves of a Ford archive. They have 4 vehicle lines, only one of which (to my knowledge) makes any significant profit - the XK8 / XKR. But even they have their problems
They, reportedly, spent $1bn to produce an AWD Mondeo - still haven't figured that one out!
So the question is this: What would you do about it if you were in charge?
Is it time for a complete company overhaul?
Are the days of long bonnets and radiator grills numbered, or they integral and compulsory design themes of a Jaguar car?
Would you keep Jag under the ownership of Ford, or cut them free (or maybe a mix of the two - make it an autonomous part of Ford)
Is it time for Jaguar to expand their product range? Possibly a lovely little AWD off-roader
What are the key areas of Jaguar that need development? Ride? Comfort? NVH? Durability & Reliability? The advertising?
Now's your chance to recreate what should be a Great British Marque (on computer, at least!)
>>> Edited by mtmrop on Thursday 6th June 00:58
I disagree, I think that Jaguar have increased awareness by producing the smaller models. Long may this continue. However, this where they fall down - they are trying to do what all of the other manufacturers are doing - chasing the '3 sales. BMW have worked long and hard to establish the 3 as the leading small exec model - and judging by the reviews it is still currently the best on the market. No manufacturer is going to knock them off over night and it takes time and LOTS of money. So why bother???? Ford just want to compete compete compete all of the time.
Audi have done very well over the years with a different type of car. The 80 and then then A4 have been sucessful in this market by being a little different. They now have a very loyal following and sell cars by the bucket load. Especially as they have a very stron (yet cheap) diesel range. Lexus too - as usual sell out due to the strong brand loyalty and image.
So why the hell does Jag chase that? Why bother? Why not do the smaller car, but be different. Not chase the '3 and try for some more individuality. They have proved this before - why not again. Smaller scale, more exclusive (not necessarily more expensive) and why be afraid of a bady-Jag...??
And finally, why oh why do the motoring journos insist that the S-type R is a competitor to the M5? I think NOT. One is manual and one is auto. One uses a supercharger and one is normally aspirate. One is set for comfort the other for performance and handling. One is the ultimate of the range and the other a member.....they are NOT the same market. I dont think that someone looking at an M5 would consider buying a S-type R instead.... totally different cars...5th Gear being the latest to do this by the way.
Cheers,
Paul
Audi have done very well over the years with a different type of car. The 80 and then then A4 have been sucessful in this market by being a little different. They now have a very loyal following and sell cars by the bucket load. Especially as they have a very stron (yet cheap) diesel range. Lexus too - as usual sell out due to the strong brand loyalty and image.
So why the hell does Jag chase that? Why bother? Why not do the smaller car, but be different. Not chase the '3 and try for some more individuality. They have proved this before - why not again. Smaller scale, more exclusive (not necessarily more expensive) and why be afraid of a bady-Jag...??
And finally, why oh why do the motoring journos insist that the S-type R is a competitor to the M5? I think NOT. One is manual and one is auto. One uses a supercharger and one is normally aspirate. One is set for comfort the other for performance and handling. One is the ultimate of the range and the other a member.....they are NOT the same market. I dont think that someone looking at an M5 would consider buying a S-type R instead.... totally different cars...5th Gear being the latest to do this by the way.
Cheers,
Paul
Ask what Jaguar means to anyone and 99 times out of 100 they'll say E-Type. By Jaguar not building the F-Type they are effectively turning their back on everything that made them special. Ford obviously don't understand the brand they bought and will kill it.
To be honest, TVR build the cars closest to what I think Jags should be doing. In my view, of course.
So that's what I think they should do. Also employ designers who create new Jaguars and not hideous charicatures.
To be honest, TVR build the cars closest to what I think Jags should be doing. In my view, of course.
So that's what I think they should do. Also employ designers who create new Jaguars and not hideous charicatures.
quote:Do you honestly believe that? Supposing you do, then it would be by coincidence that they happened upon another of the remaining high value British Car brands - Aston Martin... at the same time as Fritz was falling out with Hans over Bentley and Rolls Royce.
Ford obviously don't understand the brand they bought and will kill it.
I really don't think Ford would be where it is today with such naivety let loose in it's upper echelons. What they are doing is a manifestation of the cold calculation and collateral cruelty of raw capitalism.
Welcome to our future.
quote:
quote:Do you honestly believe that? Supposing you do, then it would be by coincidence that they happened upon another of the remaining high value British Car brands - Aston Martin... at the same time as Fritz was falling out with Hans over Bentley and Rolls Royce.
Ford obviously don't understand the brand they bought and will kill it.
I really don't think Ford would be where it is today with such naivety let loose in it's upper echelons. What they are doing is a manifestation of the cold calculation and collateral cruelty of raw capitalism.
Welcome to our future.
I should clarify that as meaning they will kill it as a brand with a unique intrinsic value.
quote:
I should clarify that as meaning they will kill it as a brand with a unique intrinsic value.
No they are not killing it , it is disapointing that they have shelved the F type but the XKR and XJR and now the S type R are good cars and most importantly they are different ie not Merc`s or BMW`s good cars as these are.
They are making cars for individuals give them time , to me the bigest mistake Ford are making is putting Jaguar in to F1 .
Now there's a job I'd love - running Jaguar. As far as the products are concerned, this is how I see the line-up
X-Type: Don't go for volume sales. It'll never sell as many as the 3-series so why try? I'd go the IS300 route and go for exclusivity, using a straight six and rear wheel drive. No diesels and or estates, but maybe a four seat coupe.
S-Type and XJ: Keep the formular (although use a straight 6 not a vee, and keep the V8). Make them more sporting though. 6 Speed manuals available and more "modern" trim, maybe a choice of aluminium instead of wood.
XK: Lose the rear seats and about 300kg. Again, give a choice of a manual box and keep the focus sporting. V8 engines only
F-Type: Bring it back from the dead and drop the straight six in the nose. Available in both coupe and roadster format.
R-Coupe: Need I say more? Just put the concept into production.
All would be styled by the (IMO) brilliant Ian Callum, losing the retro look and bringing a timeless style to the range. Lightweight aluminium would be used extensivley in the construction to cut weight.
Engines: As mentioned, bottom of the range would be a straight six (2.5 - 3.5 litre). The V8 would grow to 4.5 to 5.5 lites. Superchargers would go in favour of more capacity.
F1: Bites the dust. Jaguar would go back to Le Mans and sportscar racing.
Righto, this little lot should only cost about
£5 billion, so I can't really see Ford giving me the job. Shame....
X-Type: Don't go for volume sales. It'll never sell as many as the 3-series so why try? I'd go the IS300 route and go for exclusivity, using a straight six and rear wheel drive. No diesels and or estates, but maybe a four seat coupe.
S-Type and XJ: Keep the formular (although use a straight 6 not a vee, and keep the V8). Make them more sporting though. 6 Speed manuals available and more "modern" trim, maybe a choice of aluminium instead of wood.
XK: Lose the rear seats and about 300kg. Again, give a choice of a manual box and keep the focus sporting. V8 engines only
F-Type: Bring it back from the dead and drop the straight six in the nose. Available in both coupe and roadster format.
R-Coupe: Need I say more? Just put the concept into production.
All would be styled by the (IMO) brilliant Ian Callum, losing the retro look and bringing a timeless style to the range. Lightweight aluminium would be used extensivley in the construction to cut weight.
Engines: As mentioned, bottom of the range would be a straight six (2.5 - 3.5 litre). The V8 would grow to 4.5 to 5.5 lites. Superchargers would go in favour of more capacity.
F1: Bites the dust. Jaguar would go back to Le Mans and sportscar racing.
Righto, this little lot should only cost about
£5 billion, so I can't really see Ford giving me the job. Shame....
Hmmmm. You have to wonder what Ford spent all the money on so far don't you?
I mean:
XK range: based on the floor pan of the XJS (come to think of it so was the old model DB7) which in turn is based on the 1960's XJ saloon range.
XJ8 range: based on the old XJ40 floorpan, which in turn took more than a passing nod at the old 1960's XJ6 floorpan!
S type: A rebodied Lincoln LS. Need I say more?
X type: A rebodied Mundano 4WD! Before anyone shouts about there never having been a 4WD mondeo just check yr pile of old brochures and there in the original mondeo launch pack is Fords own pronouncements on the same. It lived briefly and got canned! Oh, and now X type is going to be FWD only! Ye Gods!
Lets be clear, Jaguar aint Audi and it aint BMW.Neither of those marques should be able to approach the cachet of the Jaguar badge and it's history. That they can now be held up as icons for Jaguar to follow shows how low the once mighty cat has fallen under Fords stewardship. (I think Ford has done more damage to Jaguar than all the years under BL!)
What was Jaguar about?
Its sports cars were hairy fast, super sexy and dirt cheap (hello TVR Griffith?)and its saloons were sleek gentlemens express carriages. Two quite distinct desein ethos were in place under William Lyons and he took care not to get them mixed up too much.
There was no wood veneer on an E type facia (nor a stonking great chrome grille for that matter) and the saloons were always graceful - beautiful even.
Now look what we've got today - a mish mash of half baked design cues crammed into each design. The S type is an abortion from the rear and the X type looks like it visited a "honey I shrunk the XJ" scientist and came back all out of proportion - ever wondered why the traditional Jag low scuttle is missing from the x type? cos its got a Mondeo chassis with Mondeo screen pick up points that why!
Ford is slowly bastardising Jaguar. Don't talk about Aston in the same breath - it's where all Fords old style car enthusiast senior managers ended up and thats why they get the money and corporate indulgence.
Jaguar needs to make money for Ford and it cannot do that by making rebodied humdrum cars and 1960's throwbacks.
The range should be;
F type: RWD. Straight six, 180mph and very very pretty.
open top and coupe available. No wood! a core enthusiast sports car.
S type: Mid size (5 series)sports saloon RWD. straight six and V8. Good looking, elegant, understated.
XJ: RWD Larger saloon. V8 and V12. Must be stunningly beautiful, ride like a magic carpet and be silent!
XK: Master GT Coupe - like Ferrari 456 etc. V8 and V12 only. 2 + 2 and drop dead looks. 180mph capable.
No diesels, no estates, no 4WD, no plastic grilles, no Mondeo chassis, no wood and leather everywhere in all models, no mixed design cues. Pure lines, performance and beauty paramount.
Thats Jaguar and thats what I'd do.
Andy 400se
I mean:
XK range: based on the floor pan of the XJS (come to think of it so was the old model DB7) which in turn is based on the 1960's XJ saloon range.
XJ8 range: based on the old XJ40 floorpan, which in turn took more than a passing nod at the old 1960's XJ6 floorpan!
S type: A rebodied Lincoln LS. Need I say more?
X type: A rebodied Mundano 4WD! Before anyone shouts about there never having been a 4WD mondeo just check yr pile of old brochures and there in the original mondeo launch pack is Fords own pronouncements on the same. It lived briefly and got canned! Oh, and now X type is going to be FWD only! Ye Gods!
Lets be clear, Jaguar aint Audi and it aint BMW.Neither of those marques should be able to approach the cachet of the Jaguar badge and it's history. That they can now be held up as icons for Jaguar to follow shows how low the once mighty cat has fallen under Fords stewardship. (I think Ford has done more damage to Jaguar than all the years under BL!)
What was Jaguar about?
Its sports cars were hairy fast, super sexy and dirt cheap (hello TVR Griffith?)and its saloons were sleek gentlemens express carriages. Two quite distinct desein ethos were in place under William Lyons and he took care not to get them mixed up too much.
There was no wood veneer on an E type facia (nor a stonking great chrome grille for that matter) and the saloons were always graceful - beautiful even.
Now look what we've got today - a mish mash of half baked design cues crammed into each design. The S type is an abortion from the rear and the X type looks like it visited a "honey I shrunk the XJ" scientist and came back all out of proportion - ever wondered why the traditional Jag low scuttle is missing from the x type? cos its got a Mondeo chassis with Mondeo screen pick up points that why!
Ford is slowly bastardising Jaguar. Don't talk about Aston in the same breath - it's where all Fords old style car enthusiast senior managers ended up and thats why they get the money and corporate indulgence.
Jaguar needs to make money for Ford and it cannot do that by making rebodied humdrum cars and 1960's throwbacks.
The range should be;
F type: RWD. Straight six, 180mph and very very pretty.
open top and coupe available. No wood! a core enthusiast sports car.
S type: Mid size (5 series)sports saloon RWD. straight six and V8. Good looking, elegant, understated.
XJ: RWD Larger saloon. V8 and V12. Must be stunningly beautiful, ride like a magic carpet and be silent!
XK: Master GT Coupe - like Ferrari 456 etc. V8 and V12 only. 2 + 2 and drop dead looks. 180mph capable.
No diesels, no estates, no 4WD, no plastic grilles, no Mondeo chassis, no wood and leather everywhere in all models, no mixed design cues. Pure lines, performance and beauty paramount.
Thats Jaguar and thats what I'd do.
Andy 400se
quote:
The range should be;
F type: RWD. Straight six, 180mph and very very pretty.
open top and coupe available. No wood! a core enthusiast sports car.
S type: Mid size (5 series)sports saloon RWD. straight six and V8. Good looking, elegant, understated.
XJ: RWD Larger saloon. V8 and V12. Must be stunningly beautiful, ride like a magic carpet and be silent!
XK: Master GT Coupe - like Ferrari 456 etc. V8 and V12 only. 2 + 2 and drop dead looks. 180mph capable.
No diesels, no estates, no 4WD, no plastic grilles, no Mondeo chassis, no wood and leather everywhere in all models, no mixed design cues. Pure lines, performance and beauty paramount.
Thats Jaguar and thats what I'd do.
Andy 400se
Perfect!!!
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