Starter motorsport
Discussion
Seems as good a place as any to ask this....
I don't have a great deal of time to spare and as such I don't feel I'm getting good value out of my Elise as it's a second car, so I've been thinking "what about club racing instead"
I don't want to race the Elise as it's a very expensive accident so was thinking along the lines of stock hatch/locost kind of thing and even if I can't compete in every round, it will hopefully give me my adrenaline fix.
Does anyone race in these kind of formulae and know how much it costs? How much time does it really take up? Where the hell do I start? Can the car be driven to the evnt or do I need a trailer and tow car too?
Any help gratefully received
I don't have a great deal of time to spare and as such I don't feel I'm getting good value out of my Elise as it's a second car, so I've been thinking "what about club racing instead"
I don't want to race the Elise as it's a very expensive accident so was thinking along the lines of stock hatch/locost kind of thing and even if I can't compete in every round, it will hopefully give me my adrenaline fix.
Does anyone race in these kind of formulae and know how much it costs? How much time does it really take up? Where the hell do I start? Can the car be driven to the evnt or do I need a trailer and tow car too?
Any help gratefully received
Have a look at SELOC and the BMW series they are running.. cheap with large grids..
www.selocmotorsport.com/
and check out the BMW challenge, basically alot of lotus owners who had the same quandry as yourself
hth,
Carsten
www.selocmotorsport.com/
and check out the BMW challenge, basically alot of lotus owners who had the same quandry as yourself
hth,
Carsten
Thanks Carsten,
Looks good - have seen a post about this from one of the drivers and it's cheaper than the Kumho series apparently - I'll send them an email for some more details.
The only problem is tI think the car will ahve to be trailered there which means my 306 will have to go as well for something abit beefier especially as a 320 will weigh more!!
Any other ideas? I'm not atotally averse to trailering a car around but the whole kit and kaboodle will need to fit in my garage preferable as I don'yt like the idea of it sitting outside when I'm not about (I travel a lot for work hence not much spare time).
Looks good - have seen a post about this from one of the drivers and it's cheaper than the Kumho series apparently - I'll send them an email for some more details.
The only problem is tI think the car will ahve to be trailered there which means my 306 will have to go as well for something abit beefier especially as a 320 will weigh more!!
Any other ideas? I'm not atotally averse to trailering a car around but the whole kit and kaboodle will need to fit in my garage preferable as I don'yt like the idea of it sitting outside when I'm not about (I travel a lot for work hence not much spare time).
You need a 'B' licence, MSA-approved lid and race suit, and membership of an MSA-affilliated motor club.
Your licence will come with a full events calendar, but bear in mind that events tend to fill up about four weeks beforehand - so you may have more or less had it for this year unless you get your skates on.
Gurston Down is probably your nearest hillclimb venue:
[url]www.gurstondown.org[/url]
HTH
Nick.
Your licence will come with a full events calendar, but bear in mind that events tend to fill up about four weeks beforehand - so you may have more or less had it for this year unless you get your skates on.
Gurston Down is probably your nearest hillclimb venue:
[url]www.gurstondown.org[/url]
HTH
Nick.
The MSA website is the place to go for details of all the various competition licences. You can do Sprinting and hillclimbing with a National B Licence (Non-Racing) and it requires no medical (apart from a self certification on the licence application) and no need to complete any sort of racing driving course.
I sprint my Seven (I have yet to do a hillclimb although it's something I really want to do) and the only additional requirements were an FIA Spec' roll over bar, an ignition cut-off switch, an oil catch tank and a piece of yellow tape on on one of the battery leads (I've forgotten which one but it's still in place).
The major expense incurred was in the clothing - you will need a flame/fire proof race suit, gloves, boots and an MSA approved helmet. All these details are listed in the famed MSA "Blue Book" which sets out everything you need to know about competition driving in the UK.
I sprint my Seven (I have yet to do a hillclimb although it's something I really want to do) and the only additional requirements were an FIA Spec' roll over bar, an ignition cut-off switch, an oil catch tank and a piece of yellow tape on on one of the battery leads (I've forgotten which one but it's still in place).
The major expense incurred was in the clothing - you will need a flame/fire proof race suit, gloves, boots and an MSA approved helmet. All these details are listed in the famed MSA "Blue Book" which sets out everything you need to know about competition driving in the UK.
Another plug for the Silverstone 5 day race school here too. OK, it is quite expensive, but it is 4 days of intensive instruction followed by a double header race day all in Formula ford or first (depending on which option you pick).
On the plus side, you will meet some great guys, get your suit, boots and a pair of gloves as part of the deal and come out of it with a National B license at the end of your week, plus a couple of signatures for the races.
OK, it is not quite the preparation for proper racing that it is billed as (first qulaification using your license will very quickly point out the differences), but fantastic none the less.
On the plus side, you will meet some great guys, get your suit, boots and a pair of gloves as part of the deal and come out of it with a National B license at the end of your week, plus a couple of signatures for the races.
OK, it is not quite the preparation for proper racing that it is billed as (first qulaification using your license will very quickly point out the differences), but fantastic none the less.
Yep do the 5 day race intensive course, that really sets you up to be a competant racer, plus you get to make some usefull contacts and get 2-3 signatures on that licence..
the instructors are people like Robin Lidell, Phil bennet, Rob Barf and simon mason so they know their stuff.
Hill Climbing/sprinting mmm all good fun but the most amazing bit about circuit racing is the wheel to wheel stuff thats just awesome....
the instructors are people like Robin Lidell, Phil bennet, Rob Barf and simon mason so they know their stuff.
Hill Climbing/sprinting mmm all good fun but the most amazing bit about circuit racing is the wheel to wheel stuff thats just awesome....
Graham said:
Hill Climbing/sprinting mmm all good fun but the most amazing bit about circuit racing is the wheel to wheel stuff thats just awesome....
Nice thing about sprinting/hillclimbing is that you don't have worry about the prat who gets it wrong and takes you out.
The running costs are considerbaly lower so it makes an ideal entry point. To me the buzz of having gone faster than before or got a corner better is what it is really all about.
Enter an Elise in the standard classes and you turn up, compete and drive home. We have had Championship winners who have driven standard hatchbacks so even the 306 could be used. Typically there are about 15 classes based on engine size and level of mods. Vast variety of circuits like Lydden, Castle Combe, Goodwood, Silverstone with hills and airfields.
It doesn't take much time or resources and you don't need a trailer or tow car.
There is a lot of infomation on my website (mainly TVR orientated but still applicable) www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Come and join us.
Steve
Stella star said:
Gurston is a very good hillclimb !
It's about 30 minutes from home, although sadly I haven't been there for nearly two years as it's taken that long to build a new car - four hours a week doesn't go very far...aiming to make the September event, though.
Got down to 40.94 in the old car, which is okay for a more or less standard Scimitar; aiming to save a second and a half on that with the new one on List 1B tyres, and then three more with the supercharger...
Nick.
Stig said:
Have raced Locost for 3 years now, although, it depends on your definition of 'low'
My first two year's sprinting cost me just the helmet/overalls etc and entry fees. Can't get much cheaper than that!
But I know what you mean. One racer's single race budget is enough for another's whole year!
I think I went in at the deep end a bit. Picked AutoItalia as my starting point an found a ready prepared car for £2500 complete with trailer.
Unfortunately to get to the first race cost me another £1500 at least thanks to the engine blowing up within 5 minutes of use. Three years later I have spent somewhere in the region of £20k on the car and that is about to go up by another £5k thanks to seriously bending the original car two weeks ago. Until this year though I had never had any kind of accident in the car (unless you call stabbing your thumb on the end of a screw an accident).
On the other hand I've had enormous fun and driven against everything from Fiat Unos to Ferrari 360 challenge cars (and everything inbetween).
My one piece of advice from all this is that it is all well and good finding a cheap series to race in but watch a few of the races first and decide if you like the style of driving. For example the fiat racing challenge series is dirt cheap to run on paper but most drivers will go through at *least* one shell a year thanks to some pretty awful driving standards (it only takes one or two people unfortunately). You might think that a grid where half the cars have a novice cross is a good place to start but it usually means that the drivers get out of the series as soon as they can.
Any solo competition is going to be easier on car costs as the only person likely to bend your car is yourself.
Unfortunately to get to the first race cost me another £1500 at least thanks to the engine blowing up within 5 minutes of use. Three years later I have spent somewhere in the region of £20k on the car and that is about to go up by another £5k thanks to seriously bending the original car two weeks ago. Until this year though I had never had any kind of accident in the car (unless you call stabbing your thumb on the end of a screw an accident
). On the other hand I've had enormous fun and driven against everything from Fiat Unos to Ferrari 360 challenge cars (and everything inbetween).
My one piece of advice from all this is that it is all well and good finding a cheap series to race in but watch a few of the races first and decide if you like the style of driving. For example the fiat racing challenge series is dirt cheap to run on paper but most drivers will go through at *least* one shell a year thanks to some pretty awful driving standards (it only takes one or two people unfortunately). You might think that a grid where half the cars have a novice cross is a good place to start but it usually means that the drivers get out of the series as soon as they can.
Any solo competition is going to be easier on car costs as the only person likely to bend your car is yourself.
You could start with look at what the motorsport clubs like BARC and 750mc offer, once you've found something that lights yer fire ask the club for cost details. The Competition Secretary will be able to provide a complete breakdown if asked nicely. The 750 mc have a list of competitors willing to offer advice to people so ask for their details.
The Autosport show at the NEC on 13-16th Jan 2005 is a good place to meet the clubs and racers.
Briefly though, think about the following:
Motosport needent be expensive but there is always the opportunity to spend more money if you want.
Most serious race cars are Trailored to the event, expect to pay upwards of £350 for a trailor and £100 for a towbar.A typical Hot Hatch or Locost race car should set you back from £2500.
Helmet and Clothing from £300
MSA Licence £can't remeber
ARDS course - Try Mallory Park they're cheap
Club Joining Fee
Race Entry £120+ per race, usually includes 20 mins qualifying.
Fuel £50 depending on where the circuit is, towing is a real fuel drain!
Spares and tools - try and build up as many as poss over time, something always goes wrong when you least want it too and can put an end to your day before it's even started.
I'm a big fan of getting some instruction, most people never seem to bother and it takes them ages to get up to speed. A few lessons will make a big difference although they aint cheap.
Test days are usually on a friday before the race and are well worth it if you have the time and the money especially as most circuits will be new to you.
Also worth bearing in mind the season usually starts in March/April so if you want to start then it's best to have a car sorted by the end of Jan and get the Licences organised quickly, it's always surprising how last minute everything can get.
Hope this helps - good luck and enjoy the choosing.
>> Edited by custardtart on Wednesday 4th August 09:37
The Autosport show at the NEC on 13-16th Jan 2005 is a good place to meet the clubs and racers.
Briefly though, think about the following:
Motosport needent be expensive but there is always the opportunity to spend more money if you want.
Most serious race cars are Trailored to the event, expect to pay upwards of £350 for a trailor and £100 for a towbar.A typical Hot Hatch or Locost race car should set you back from £2500.
Helmet and Clothing from £300
MSA Licence £can't remeber
ARDS course - Try Mallory Park they're cheap
Club Joining Fee
Race Entry £120+ per race, usually includes 20 mins qualifying.
Fuel £50 depending on where the circuit is, towing is a real fuel drain!
Spares and tools - try and build up as many as poss over time, something always goes wrong when you least want it too and can put an end to your day before it's even started.
I'm a big fan of getting some instruction, most people never seem to bother and it takes them ages to get up to speed. A few lessons will make a big difference although they aint cheap.
Test days are usually on a friday before the race and are well worth it if you have the time and the money especially as most circuits will be new to you.
Also worth bearing in mind the season usually starts in March/April so if you want to start then it's best to have a car sorted by the end of Jan and get the Licences organised quickly, it's always surprising how last minute everything can get.
Hope this helps - good luck and enjoy the choosing.
>> Edited by custardtart on Wednesday 4th August 09:37
What about karting? The set up and maintainance costs would be a lot cheaper, and these things are not slow (the speed that you can take corners at will amaze you). I think Johnny Herbet said that in terms of power/weight ratio and lateral grip, once you leave karts you don't really get the same feeling until to you get to F1 or maybe F3000.
In terms of kit you'd need a starter kit from the MSA which I think costs £50. You then have to do an easy "test" where you get asked about flag etc, and they watch you do a couple of laps just to see you're not dangerous. You'd need a suit (£150ish) helmet (£100 - £600) boots (£50) gloves (£20).
You can get a brand new TKM kart (2 stroke, 100cc, air cooled, will do 0 - 60 in around 4 secs and top out at 80mph) for around £1500 I imagine. Tyres would cost about £80 - £100 a set. How often you use new ones depends on how competitive you want to be. The engines in TKMs need rebuilding fairly often though...
Perhaps a better alternative is a Rotax. These are water cooled karts with a starter and a clutch (you just push a button, the TKMs need to be push started as there is no starter/clutch - so you can't stop or you'll stall in those). They are a little faster than the TKMs (max speed around 90ish I think, quicker acceleration and around silverstone national circuit they're as quick as a fford!) - they also have stickier tyres. The rebuild times on a rotax is longer than on a TKM. A kart costs around £2k...
Where in the country are you? There are some great circuits around
also, www.karting.co.uk is very helpful if you want more information. The karting community is generally very helpful. How about finding out where your nearest track is and going down there on a test day (probably better) or the practice day of a race meeting (saturday) and asking people some questions, they're normally happy to help (as long as they don't look too busy!).
In terms of kit you'd need a starter kit from the MSA which I think costs £50. You then have to do an easy "test" where you get asked about flag etc, and they watch you do a couple of laps just to see you're not dangerous. You'd need a suit (£150ish) helmet (£100 - £600) boots (£50) gloves (£20).
You can get a brand new TKM kart (2 stroke, 100cc, air cooled, will do 0 - 60 in around 4 secs and top out at 80mph) for around £1500 I imagine. Tyres would cost about £80 - £100 a set. How often you use new ones depends on how competitive you want to be
. The engines in TKMs need rebuilding fairly often though... Perhaps a better alternative is a Rotax. These are water cooled karts with a starter and a clutch (you just push a button, the TKMs need to be push started as there is no starter/clutch - so you can't stop or you'll stall in those). They are a little faster than the TKMs (max speed around 90ish I think, quicker acceleration and around silverstone national circuit they're as quick as a fford!) - they also have stickier tyres. The rebuild times on a rotax is longer than on a TKM. A kart costs around £2k...
Where in the country are you? There are some great circuits around
also, www.karting.co.uk is very helpful if you want more information. The karting community is generally very helpful. How about finding out where your nearest track is and going down there on a test day (probably better) or the practice day of a race meeting (saturday) and asking people some questions, they're normally happy to help (as long as they don't look too busy!).
All,
Many thanks for the rpelies and suggestions, there certainly seems to be a wealth of experience out there.
Due mainly to time constraints I have decided to give sprinting a go for a start next season or maybe this if I can get my arse in gear - it avoids having to get a trailer and tow car as well as allowing the Sunday morning/workday evening blasts round the country lanes. I should also get an insight into whether I actually like the competition side oif things before I go and get a car and find out it's not for me.
Realistically is there time for me to have a go at one before the nd of the year? My understanding is I need to do the following:
Get MSA B non race license
Get helmet, overalls and shoes (do they have to be fireproof?)
Prep the car - does it need a plumbed in fire extinguisher and ignition cut off? How the hell do I fit the latter?
Join an MSA approved club - which gives access to any MSA event that my license permits?
And that's it....??
Once again thanks for the advice
Many thanks for the rpelies and suggestions, there certainly seems to be a wealth of experience out there.
Due mainly to time constraints I have decided to give sprinting a go for a start next season or maybe this if I can get my arse in gear - it avoids having to get a trailer and tow car as well as allowing the Sunday morning/workday evening blasts round the country lanes. I should also get an insight into whether I actually like the competition side oif things before I go and get a car and find out it's not for me.
Realistically is there time for me to have a go at one before the nd of the year? My understanding is I need to do the following:
Get MSA B non race license
Get helmet, overalls and shoes (do they have to be fireproof?)
Prep the car - does it need a plumbed in fire extinguisher and ignition cut off? How the hell do I fit the latter?
Join an MSA approved club - which gives access to any MSA event that my license permits?
And that's it....??
Once again thanks for the advice
D_Mike said:
What about karting?
Don't you need to waif-thin to be any good? I'm not
- I'm currently modding the Elise by gong on a diet :celery: D_Mike said:
Where in the country are you? There are some great circuits around
Southampton - I've done some outdoor karting in twin engined jobbies and it is great fun, not usre where the best place round here is though.
They do have heavyweight classes in both TKM and Rotax. I think the minimum driver weight for those is 80kg. Weight matters a bit less in Rotaxes (more power), and may even help in the wet
The twin engined prokarts you get in rental places are quite fun, but compared to a competition kart they are much, much slower. Whenever I drive a prokart I get frustrated with the amount of time it takes for the power to arrive, and they generally have very hard tyres on (proper tyres will feel very sticky when they're hot).
a good place to check out the price of equipment (suits, helmets etc) for both car and kart racing is www.grandpri.com.
I'm not sure of any tracks in hampshire (maybe shenington... I might be wrong). But within a reasonable distance you have clay pigeon (nr yeovil, fastest track in country), Lydd (right on the east sussex/kent border), Buckmore Park (best track, nr chatham), and maybe even whilton mill (slightly north). There is a track directory at www.karting.co.uk
Club100 (www.club100.co.uk) do arrive and drive 2 stroke racing in slightly tuned down TKM karts (they have a beefier chassis to survive crashes, lower rev limit (14,000 ish i think) and harder tyres), but if you want to see what a 2 stroke kart is like they may be worth a go. They are an excellent company and the karts all well prepared and the test/race days run very well.
Personally, if I had the money i'd race cars (I think the caterham academy looks like a good deal actually), but as I haven't I do karts
The twin engined prokarts you get in rental places are quite fun, but compared to a competition kart they are much, much slower. Whenever I drive a prokart I get frustrated with the amount of time it takes for the power to arrive
, and they generally have very hard tyres on (proper tyres will feel very sticky when they're hot). a good place to check out the price of equipment (suits, helmets etc) for both car and kart racing is www.grandpri.com.
I'm not sure of any tracks in hampshire (maybe shenington... I might be wrong). But within a reasonable distance you have clay pigeon (nr yeovil, fastest track in country), Lydd (right on the east sussex/kent border), Buckmore Park (best track
, nr chatham), and maybe even whilton mill (slightly north). There is a track directory at www.karting.co.uk Club100 (www.club100.co.uk) do arrive and drive 2 stroke racing in slightly tuned down TKM karts (they have a beefier chassis to survive crashes, lower rev limit (14,000 ish i think) and harder tyres), but if you want to see what a 2 stroke kart is like they may be worth a go. They are an excellent company and the karts all well prepared and the test/race days run very well.
Personally, if I had the money i'd race cars
(I think the caterham academy looks like a good deal actually), but as I haven't I do karts Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff