S2 Alfa Spider
Discussion
Hi all, anyone got any direct experience of the Alfa Spider? Considering going to see a late 70s Series 2 2000 kammtail and would like to hear any ownership experiences.
Love the styling of the S1 and S2 and spares availability seems very good. I'm aware of the rust issues but the only thing that's really putting me off at the moment is that the Octane buyer's guide speaks of potential £4k rebuild costs on the engine...
Thanks
Love the styling of the S1 and S2 and spares availability seems very good. I'm aware of the rust issues but the only thing that's really putting me off at the moment is that the Octane buyer's guide speaks of potential £4k rebuild costs on the engine...
Thanks
No direct ownership experience but my wife's cousin got one as her 'mid-life crisis' car. The car looks great from a distance but up close and in detail it's a mess and overall it's quite a lemon. So little torsional rigidity that the doors have to be locked to stop them flying open on corners.
The engine is great and the gearbox not bad when you're used to it but it just seems something that's less than the sum of it's parts, or maybe I've just been put off by a lemon and would need to see more to get a balanced opinion.
The engine is great and the gearbox not bad when you're used to it but it just seems something that's less than the sum of it's parts, or maybe I've just been put off by a lemon and would need to see more to get a balanced opinion.
No experience, other then looking and thinking ohh, they're nice but a bit pricey.
Let us know what you think if you do go see it.
I'm sure you know the engine is a twin cam, so a bit more involved then an over head valve engine you'd find fitted to a Triumph Spitfire or MGB. Your best bet is to join an owners club or marque/model specific forum. My gut reaction is that 4k seems a lot, Octane always seem to put a hefty mark up on any price they print.
Let us know what you think if you do go see it.
I'm sure you know the engine is a twin cam, so a bit more involved then an over head valve engine you'd find fitted to a Triumph Spitfire or MGB. Your best bet is to join an owners club or marque/model specific forum. My gut reaction is that 4k seems a lot, Octane always seem to put a hefty mark up on any price they print.
I have owned a 1977 Alfa Spider Veloce for many years. My car is currently awaiting restoration work, but I can tell you about the type based on much happy motoring in my one.
In my opinion, these cars are a pleasure to drive, and, if you find a good one, ownership should not be too fraught. The car will outperform any Triumph or MG of its age across country, although it won't keep up with a Lotus Elan on a bendy road.
The two litre twin cam engine is a lovely, high revving unit. It does use oil, but that is pretty standard for Alfas. Keeping the Dellortos in balance can be a bit of a problem. Cooling is generally OK, although I have not used mine much in city traffic. The twin servo brakes feel quite modern and are effective. Apart from some play in the gearchange, I have not experienced transmission problems, and the gearing is good for a long cruise. Changing the clutch is a bit of a a pain. The car is rather noisy at motorway speeds, hood up or down, but so are most light convertibles.
The cars do of course rust in all the usual places unless given rust protection, preferably during a respray. Look closely at the wheel arches and floors.
The vinyl interior wears well, and the hood is very easy to use. You can raise and lower it with one hand while in the driving seat.
Annoying niggles include misted up instruments and failing boot release cables.
As always, buy the best one that you can afford. Stick with the 70s cars - the later ones were ruined by wide tyres and bodykits and extra weight.
In my opinion, these cars are a pleasure to drive, and, if you find a good one, ownership should not be too fraught. The car will outperform any Triumph or MG of its age across country, although it won't keep up with a Lotus Elan on a bendy road.
The two litre twin cam engine is a lovely, high revving unit. It does use oil, but that is pretty standard for Alfas. Keeping the Dellortos in balance can be a bit of a problem. Cooling is generally OK, although I have not used mine much in city traffic. The twin servo brakes feel quite modern and are effective. Apart from some play in the gearchange, I have not experienced transmission problems, and the gearing is good for a long cruise. Changing the clutch is a bit of a a pain. The car is rather noisy at motorway speeds, hood up or down, but so are most light convertibles.
The cars do of course rust in all the usual places unless given rust protection, preferably during a respray. Look closely at the wheel arches and floors.
The vinyl interior wears well, and the hood is very easy to use. You can raise and lower it with one hand while in the driving seat.
Annoying niggles include misted up instruments and failing boot release cables.
As always, buy the best one that you can afford. Stick with the 70s cars - the later ones were ruined by wide tyres and bodykits and extra weight.
Players,
I think they are a great car - but i may be biased. I have owned a 1978 series 2 (Kammtail) 2000cc car for the last 13 years and done approx 40,000 miles in it. Mine was imported from southern italy shortly before i bought it so it has a solid body. Doors opening of their own accord (mentioned by another poster) sounds like the sills are rotting away and car becoming banana shaped. I beleive the most important thing is to buy a car with a good body or it'll be a money-pit and you'll hate it. I've found the mechanical reliability excellent - my car has done 130,000mls (with a top end rebuild at about 75,000 before i bought it) on its original engine and gearbox. Its had a new clutch and servo but usually needs no more than a yearly service. Parts availability is excellent and there are several specialists catering for them. Check out Alfaholics, Classic Alfa, EB Spares etc)
Why do i still have the car after 13 years ? - it's just such good fun. On decent tyres the handling is good, with the 5 speed gearbox it'll easily keep up with modern traffic and cruise happily at 70 without overheating, it looks good, it sounds good, running costs are reasonable and its fun. Basically it puts a smile on my face every time i drive it. Also they're relatively cheap - they're not a precious exotic that you'll be scared to use. Its relatively sophisticated compared the alternatives in the same price range - alloy twin cam, LSD, servo brakes with discs all round, 5 speed gearbox etc.
Check all the electrics and check for rust
You should post your query on the Alfa sub forum - there are some very experienced and helpful folks on there , some with professional knowledge.
I think they are a great car - but i may be biased. I have owned a 1978 series 2 (Kammtail) 2000cc car for the last 13 years and done approx 40,000 miles in it. Mine was imported from southern italy shortly before i bought it so it has a solid body. Doors opening of their own accord (mentioned by another poster) sounds like the sills are rotting away and car becoming banana shaped. I beleive the most important thing is to buy a car with a good body or it'll be a money-pit and you'll hate it. I've found the mechanical reliability excellent - my car has done 130,000mls (with a top end rebuild at about 75,000 before i bought it) on its original engine and gearbox. Its had a new clutch and servo but usually needs no more than a yearly service. Parts availability is excellent and there are several specialists catering for them. Check out Alfaholics, Classic Alfa, EB Spares etc)
Why do i still have the car after 13 years ? - it's just such good fun. On decent tyres the handling is good, with the 5 speed gearbox it'll easily keep up with modern traffic and cruise happily at 70 without overheating, it looks good, it sounds good, running costs are reasonable and its fun. Basically it puts a smile on my face every time i drive it. Also they're relatively cheap - they're not a precious exotic that you'll be scared to use. Its relatively sophisticated compared the alternatives in the same price range - alloy twin cam, LSD, servo brakes with discs all round, 5 speed gearbox etc.
Check all the electrics and check for rust
You should post your query on the Alfa sub forum - there are some very experienced and helpful folks on there , some with professional knowledge.
PlayersNo6 said:
the Octane buyer's guide speaks of potential £4k rebuild costs on the engine...
£4000? Not a chance. These were a superb engine that, with some sort of mainenance, will plod on forever. Often a set of stem seals if it smokes in traffic. If it was £4000 for a rebuild, you'd just buy another used one for £500 or less. About the biggest improvement was some sort of special bush in the rear axle where the top link fits to redude/stop the axle moving sideways. Rust is an issue but they were no worse than an MGB and nowhere near as shocking as the Alfasud/Alfetta were. The 1750 Veloce was/is a lovely thing but a 2000 Spider Kamm tail is worth having. Spend the money on a minter and use plenty of Waxoyl.I have a 1970/71 S2 Spider with the 1750 engine and I love it. Like others have said she will keep up with modern traffic, she looks great and sounds great and is a beaut to drive. Have a look on my profile for detailed running costs.
When you go to buy look very closely at the sills and the floor pans for rust issues. I had some welding done on mine not long after I bought her. I think the car was comprehensively rebuilt in the 80s as there are some scary big bills for her from around that time, including one for about £2,000 for engine work, and a £4,000 for body work.
I think that mine was a bit rough when I bought her, but she is slowly getting better in my ownership, and with use. I don't think she has broken down yet this year
The worst thing about her is that she does leak, so my passenger will get a wet leg if its raining, and water collects in the passenger foot well, I thought I would have rectified this with a new hood and new windscreen rubbers, not so. So still trying to find that.
Also I keep having electrical issues, there will ALWAYS be one electrical item not working at any one time. At the moment its the horn. 3 months ago it was the brake lights, and last year it was the head lights. But its only ever one of those things at a time not working. Its increadibly random.
I love that car, even when I am hungover, tired etc she STILL manages to put a grin on my face, I just wish the weather up here was better so I could have her out more.
I am going to be keeping her for ever. Great car.
When you go to buy look very closely at the sills and the floor pans for rust issues. I had some welding done on mine not long after I bought her. I think the car was comprehensively rebuilt in the 80s as there are some scary big bills for her from around that time, including one for about £2,000 for engine work, and a £4,000 for body work.
I think that mine was a bit rough when I bought her, but she is slowly getting better in my ownership, and with use. I don't think she has broken down yet this year
The worst thing about her is that she does leak, so my passenger will get a wet leg if its raining, and water collects in the passenger foot well, I thought I would have rectified this with a new hood and new windscreen rubbers, not so. So still trying to find that.
Also I keep having electrical issues, there will ALWAYS be one electrical item not working at any one time. At the moment its the horn. 3 months ago it was the brake lights, and last year it was the head lights. But its only ever one of those things at a time not working. Its increadibly random.
I love that car, even when I am hungover, tired etc she STILL manages to put a grin on my face, I just wish the weather up here was better so I could have her out more.
I am going to be keeping her for ever. Great car.
iSore said:
£4000? Not a chance. These were a superb engine that, with some sort of mainenance, will plod on forever. Often a set of stem seals if it smokes in traffic. If it was £4000 for a rebuild, you'd just buy another used one for £500 or less. About the biggest improvement was some sort of special bush in the rear axle where the top link fits to redude/stop the axle moving sideways. Rust is an issue but they were no worse than an MGB and nowhere near as shocking as the Alfasud/Alfetta were. The 1750 Veloce was/is a lovely thing but a 2000 Spider Kamm tail is worth having. Spend the money on a minter and use plenty of Waxoyl.
+1. A 4k rebuild doesn't make sense when you can buy another relatively easily from the usual alfa suspects already mentioned.There is a tremendous support community and parts availability for these. Spend some time on alfabb, aroc and for more reassurance!.....
Thanks all for the detailed replies - I'm encouraged.
Car I'm considering has been waxoyled from new but has had some repairs to the boot floor apparently. 80k, low owners and good provenance - but pricey.
The Octane guide specified an engine rebuild would be £1k parts + £3k labour. I did think it was a misprint to be honest. My main concern was whether these engines are inherently weak/a roll of the dice as in the Triumph Stag V8 and Porsche Boxster engines.
Car I'm considering has been waxoyled from new but has had some repairs to the boot floor apparently. 80k, low owners and good provenance - but pricey.
The Octane guide specified an engine rebuild would be £1k parts + £3k labour. I did think it was a misprint to be honest. My main concern was whether these engines are inherently weak/a roll of the dice as in the Triumph Stag V8 and Porsche Boxster engines.
The engine is generally regarded as a well made unit which can withstand high revs for extended periods. Be sure to check the oil regularly. As noted above, bodywork is the key issue when buying a Spider. Mechanicals are secondary.
Choose a good example and you will have a lot of fun. I promise the Alfa Gods that next year is the year that my car goes back on the road.
Choose a good example and you will have a lot of fun. I promise the Alfa Gods that next year is the year that my car goes back on the road.
I had a similar urge to buy a Spider a few weeks ago, so I did!
I ended up with an S3 as it was in the best condition. The 2.0 engine should be very strong, and by the time it was used in my car ('89) it'd been in production for over 25 years so it's a well proven unit.
I think the biggest worry as mentioned by others is the body structure and that was one reason I went for the S3 as they generally seem to have survived better (possibly because they're not as old!). I've spent some time this weekend going through the car and servicing it (although it's in really good condition to start with) and I've got to say it's really well engineered when compared to Britsh sports cars of the 60's and 70's. My car's a 1989, last of the S3 cars, but the design is the same as the early cars apart from the Fuel Injection, which unfortunately make the engine really smooth and refined and not at all rorty like a twin cam should be.
The car is fun to drive, but it's not fast and the handling's interesting. Mine bounced all over the place on the drive home, so I've replaced the rear shocks which has improved it considerably. I think it will be a really nice touring car as it's quite refined at motorway speeds with the roof down. I'm planning on taking it to Le Mans Classic next month which should be a good test.
Anyway - sun's out, I'm off for a run with the roof down !!
S..
I ended up with an S3 as it was in the best condition. The 2.0 engine should be very strong, and by the time it was used in my car ('89) it'd been in production for over 25 years so it's a well proven unit.
I think the biggest worry as mentioned by others is the body structure and that was one reason I went for the S3 as they generally seem to have survived better (possibly because they're not as old!). I've spent some time this weekend going through the car and servicing it (although it's in really good condition to start with) and I've got to say it's really well engineered when compared to Britsh sports cars of the 60's and 70's. My car's a 1989, last of the S3 cars, but the design is the same as the early cars apart from the Fuel Injection, which unfortunately make the engine really smooth and refined and not at all rorty like a twin cam should be.
The car is fun to drive, but it's not fast and the handling's interesting. Mine bounced all over the place on the drive home, so I've replaced the rear shocks which has improved it considerably. I think it will be a really nice touring car as it's quite refined at motorway speeds with the roof down. I'm planning on taking it to Le Mans Classic next month which should be a good test.
Anyway - sun's out, I'm off for a run with the roof down !!
S..
I had a similar urge to buy a Spider a few weeks ago, so I did!
I ended up with an S3 as it was in the best condition. The 2.0 engine should be very strong, and by the time it was used in my car ('89) it'd been in production for over 25 years so it's a well proven unit.
I think the biggest worry as mentioned by others is the body structure and that was one reason I went for the S3 as they generally seem to have survived better (possibly because they're not as old!). I've spent some time this weekend going through the car and servicing it (although it's in really good condition to start with) and I've got to say it's really well engineered when compared to Britsh sports cars of the 60's and 70's. My car's a 1989, last of the S3 cars, but the design is the same as the early cars apart from the Fuel Injection, which unfortunately make the engine really smooth and refined and not at all rorty like a twin cam should be.
The car is fun to drive, but it's not fast and the handling's interesting. Mine bounced all over the place on the drive home, so I've replaced the rear shocks which has improved it considerably. I think it will be a really nice touring car as it's quite refined at motorway speeds with the roof down. I'm planning on taking it to Le Mans Classic next month which should be a good test.
Anyway - sun's out, I'm off for a run with the roof down !!
S..
I ended up with an S3 as it was in the best condition. The 2.0 engine should be very strong, and by the time it was used in my car ('89) it'd been in production for over 25 years so it's a well proven unit.
I think the biggest worry as mentioned by others is the body structure and that was one reason I went for the S3 as they generally seem to have survived better (possibly because they're not as old!). I've spent some time this weekend going through the car and servicing it (although it's in really good condition to start with) and I've got to say it's really well engineered when compared to Britsh sports cars of the 60's and 70's. My car's a 1989, last of the S3 cars, but the design is the same as the early cars apart from the Fuel Injection, which unfortunately make the engine really smooth and refined and not at all rorty like a twin cam should be.
The car is fun to drive, but it's not fast and the handling's interesting. Mine bounced all over the place on the drive home, so I've replaced the rear shocks which has improved it considerably. I think it will be a really nice touring car as it's quite refined at motorway speeds with the roof down. I'm planning on taking it to Le Mans Classic next month which should be a good test.
Anyway - sun's out, I'm off for a run with the roof down !!
S..
iSore said:
£4000? Not a chance. These were a superb engine that, with some sort of mainenance, will plod on forever. Often a set of stem seals if it smokes in traffic. If it was £4000 for a rebuild, you'd just buy another used one for £500 or less. About the biggest improvement was some sort of special bush in the rear axle where the top link fits to redude/stop the axle moving sideways. Rust is an issue but they were no worse than an MGB and nowhere near as shocking as the Alfasud/Alfetta were. The 1750 Veloce was/is a lovely thing but a 2000 Spider Kamm tail is worth having. Spend the money on a minter and use plenty of Waxoyl.
Of course, if you do need an engine, it's a great excuse to stick an injected Alfa 75 lump in there - modern(ish) reliability (no tinkering with carbs and wondering if it'll start on cold mornings) with an additional 30-ish bhp and lots of torque due to the variable timing gubbins.
HeatonNorris said:
Of course, if you do need an engine, it's a great excuse to stick an injected Alfa 75 lump in there - modern(ish) reliability (no tinkering with carbs and wondering if it'll start on cold mornings) with an additional 30-ish bhp and lots of torque due to the variable timing gubbins.
Yes, quite so. The TS engine was a lovely thing and they sound great. They're good for 200'000 miles with care. The old joke about about paying for the Alfa engine and getting the rest for free was very true.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff