gearbox

[brappage]

Hi Guys,

Still on the hunt for an M12 3R but was of the impression that all 3r's were 6 speed gearboxes. I am enquiring about one from what i think is a fairly reputable specialist and was told this was an early 3r and as such had a 5 speed box? Is the 5 speed box noticeably worse / different to the 6?

Thanks

[SwankBaton]

The LSD is fitted to the 6sp

[snuffy]

brappage said:

Hi Guys,

Still on the hunt for an M12 3R but was of the impression that all 3r's were 6 speed gearboxes.

Almost all 3Rs have the 6-speed box, but not all.

Equally, some 3s have a 6-speed, but most have the 5-speed one.

[playalistic]

swankBaton said:

The LSD is fitted to the 6sp

That's not to say a 5 speed won't have an LSD though. So check...

[Blu3R]

My car is a December 2003 and it was spec'd from new with a 6 speed box. I don't know at what point the 3R was sold with a 6 speed as standard but basically if you didn't spec one up until dec '03, you didn't get one.
For reference, I've never seen an '04 or newer with a 5 speeder.

[Gadgeroonie]

5 speed can take less torque and the stds diff is pants - it will fail at some stage

the 6 speed is stronger, has longer ratos and has a quaife ATB fitted

5 speed can be strenghtened and a atb fitted

[brappage]

Thanks for the help guys and the many replies, much appreciated. Sounds like I might be better to hold off for one with a 6speed box then. It was the one that Mole Valley have advertised, the black one does anyone know the car? Looks to be a clean low mileage example! Im not planning on going huge power but would be looking for the extra reliability / resale value of the 6 speed I think.

[brappage]

Turns out the car Im looking at has the diff fitted into the 5 speed box. Obviously this solves the diff issue but are the 5 speed box cars noticeable better / worse than the M12's fitted with the 6 speed? And reliability wise with the box what sort of cost are you looking to either strenghthen or upgrade to 6 speed?

Thanks for all your help

[NickyTwoHats]

I personally think the 5 speed if strengthened / shot peened with LSD and a mild tune (400+bhp) is a better car on road than the 6 speed (I have had both) I also prefer the handling of the 5 speed (different front suspension set-up) but that may be because I drove much much more in the 5 speed one I had.
On track the 6 speed has the advantage because of the closer ratios,
IMOHO
N2H

[playalistic]

NickyTwoHats said:

I also prefer the handling of the 5 speed (different front suspension set-up) but that may be because I drove much much more in the 5 speed one I had.

Does a 5-speed car really have different front suspension? Why?

[F.C.]

brappage said:

Turns out the car Im looking at has the diff fitted into the 5 speed box. Obviously this solves the diff issue but are the 5 speed box cars noticeable better / worse than the M12's fitted with the 6 speed? And reliability wise with the box what sort of cost are you looking to either strenghthen or upgrade to 6 speed?

Thanks for all your help

Having the LSD fitted is a bonus, however Strengthing the box will depend on its present condition, (no point shot peening a shagged box IYSWIM), so on inspection (if knackered) you may want to go 6 speed anyway, therefore you may want to factor in a new box and mods while you're there, I'd put a new clutch and slave cylinder in at the same time, (both are engine out jobs unless you cut and shut the chassis to fit)for peace of mind.
If you are going the whole hog why not wait for one to appear with LSD track day sump etc, already fitted, most cars owned by "enthusiasts" will have had essential jobs done aswell.

[brappage]

Thanks for the replys guys, interesting reading as always. Your right FC looks like I will be holding off for another. Just looked a nice clean low mileage example but would prefer the 6 speed box. It has the sump and diff but again is high owners as they all seem to be due to the nature of the car.

[playalistic]

brappage said:

Thanks for the replys guys, interesting reading as always. Your right FC looks like I will be holding off for another. Just looked a nice clean low mileage example but would prefer the 6 speed box. It has the sump and diff but again is high owners as they all seem to be due to the nature of the car.

What's the issue with high owners? So long as it has been cared for properly and has full history etc I don't see the trouble? I can understand it for some cars but I don't think it's an indication of a bad car as far as Nobs are concerned..

[brappage]

Would just be nice to know the history of the car. Im not saying high owners is a bad thing in every case, my last car was of the same nature when most seem to be high owners but I managed to find out the full history of the car which was re-assuring when buying it. :-)

[Blu3R]

I think that some cars of this ilk are bought by someone wanting to have the experience without it costing the earth so they buy a car just serviced and with recent work carried out, run it for a year and then sell it on. They've not had to do anything to it and hope that nothing will break in their ownership.
A friend does exactly this with 911s. He has one for a year then chops it in for something sensible while he recoups, then buys another a year later.