Rebuilt M12 3R after Cat C - anything to beware?
Discussion
Hi all, first post and completely new to the forum. Joined up as I'm hoping to turn my dream of M12 3R ownership into a reality...and trying to devour as much info as I can before buying.
I've seen a 2003 3R for sale that had 'suspension damage' and was written off as a Cat C, then dismantled and rebuilt. As this sounds like it could open a whole can of worms to a newbie buyer with no previous Noble ownership, has anyone got any advice on what to make sure I check?
Are there any companies I can use to come and do a thorough report on it before I buy? I'm in the Bournemouth area.
One last thing - the ad lists the 3R as having power windows and ABS - I thought none of the Nobles had either??
I've seen a 2003 3R for sale that had 'suspension damage' and was written off as a Cat C, then dismantled and rebuilt. As this sounds like it could open a whole can of worms to a newbie buyer with no previous Noble ownership, has anyone got any advice on what to make sure I check?
Are there any companies I can use to come and do a thorough report on it before I buy? I'm in the Bournemouth area.
One last thing - the ad lists the 3R as having power windows and ABS - I thought none of the Nobles had either??
Sounds like the black one that was being advertised ages ago in P.H. classifieds.
IIRC the seller tried a little too hard to convince people of its provenance but knew precious little about the marque, hence ABS.
Some people have fitted aftermarket electric windows though.
It's all down to price really, remember you may want to sell later on so you really need to understand how limited your future market is going to be.
If you feel the price is right get an experienced owner to look it over for you, they won't necessarily be able to assure you of the mechanical prowess of the car (engine, Gear box) but will be able to spot anything glaringly out of place, as well as comment on any mods done or not done etc.
If it's a bog standard car you can bet there's going to be a good few hundred quid needs spent.
Also if it was my money (which it would't be) I'd ask to see paperwork regarding auto ligning (for chassis alignment)which it should have if it's had a corner ripped off.
Just my 2p's worth.
IIRC the seller tried a little too hard to convince people of its provenance but knew precious little about the marque, hence ABS.
Some people have fitted aftermarket electric windows though.
It's all down to price really, remember you may want to sell later on so you really need to understand how limited your future market is going to be.
If you feel the price is right get an experienced owner to look it over for you, they won't necessarily be able to assure you of the mechanical prowess of the car (engine, Gear box) but will be able to spot anything glaringly out of place, as well as comment on any mods done or not done etc.
If it's a bog standard car you can bet there's going to be a good few hundred quid needs spent.
Also if it was my money (which it would't be) I'd ask to see paperwork regarding auto ligning (for chassis alignment)which it should have if it's had a corner ripped off.
Just my 2p's worth.
TrickyDickyChap said:
Hi all, first post and completely new to the forum. Joined up as I'm hoping to turn my dream of M12 3R ownership into a reality...and trying to devour as much info as I can before buying.
I've seen a 2003 3R for sale that had 'suspension damage' and was written off as a Cat C, then dismantled and rebuilt. As this sounds like it could open a whole can of worms to a newbie buyer with no previous Noble ownership, has anyone got any advice on what to make sure I check?
Are there any companies I can use to come and do a thorough report on it before I buy? I'm in the Bournemouth area.
One last thing - the ad lists the 3R as having power windows and ABS - I thought none of the Nobles had either??
As much as you probably don't want to highlight the ad, you're better off linking to it here so we can see if the car is familiar to anyone. I've seen a 2003 3R for sale that had 'suspension damage' and was written off as a Cat C, then dismantled and rebuilt. As this sounds like it could open a whole can of worms to a newbie buyer with no previous Noble ownership, has anyone got any advice on what to make sure I check?
Are there any companies I can use to come and do a thorough report on it before I buy? I'm in the Bournemouth area.
One last thing - the ad lists the 3R as having power windows and ABS - I thought none of the Nobles had either??
Thanks guys, some great advice there, particularly the point about suspension damage sounding unlikely as the cause of a Cat C write-off. Alignment could be questionable. You've put some of my alarm bells into words.
All the questions about mods etc - I'm waiting on an answer at the moment. I'd want the current owner/restorer to know what they're doing about essential Noble mods when rebuilding.
I don't mind linking the ad, in fact I was about to do it when I just saw that last post...I reason that you're all likely to have Nobles already! :-)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-NOBLE-GTO-M12-3R-AB...
All the questions about mods etc - I'm waiting on an answer at the moment. I'd want the current owner/restorer to know what they're doing about essential Noble mods when rebuilding.
I don't mind linking the ad, in fact I was about to do it when I just saw that last post...I reason that you're all likely to have Nobles already! :-)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-NOBLE-GTO-M12-3R-AB...
hi i bought a cat c 3r in feb from the insurance company greg's old car(mr noble) no suspension damage just rear clip and rear clam plus front clam and radiator it is now fully back together and being painted at the moment i would not be to put of if there are pics with the car of when damaged however the price he is asking for the one you are reffering to in my opinion is ok but for 3-4k more you can buy a non cat registered one good luck!!!
Enquired about it myself, he did not know of any upgrades but it seemed like he was pointing in the direction of its a `standard' car that's not been messed about with and does not realise that the upgrades are a essential in someways.
I asked if it had a 5 or 6 speed box and his reply was `as all M12's it's got a 6 speed box' so personally does not know much about them.
Asked him for photos of the accident damage as i also thought suspension damage only would not make it a cat c, but he has not come up with any photos and seems reluctant to do so.
Also bear in mind that it was originally £19,990 when it fist went on the bay, so why it's now gone up £2000 is beyond me.
From what he told me he is selling for another chap that's had it for ( i think ) about 6 years. If that is the case then ask to speak to him direct and if the car is still in his name then view the car at his address.
I asked if it had a 5 or 6 speed box and his reply was `as all M12's it's got a 6 speed box' so personally does not know much about them.
Asked him for photos of the accident damage as i also thought suspension damage only would not make it a cat c, but he has not come up with any photos and seems reluctant to do so.
Also bear in mind that it was originally £19,990 when it fist went on the bay, so why it's now gone up £2000 is beyond me.
From what he told me he is selling for another chap that's had it for ( i think ) about 6 years. If that is the case then ask to speak to him direct and if the car is still in his name then view the car at his address.
From reading other sites etc, the general rule of thumb is a Cat D is worth about 75% of what it would be worth as a normal car ( you know what I mean ). Dealers are asking £28-£30k for a 3R now. So you'd be looking at £22k from a dealer for a Cat D.
But this is not from a dealer and it's not a Cat D, it's a Cat C.
The ad says :
THIS IS THE CHEAPEST NOBLE GTO M12 3R IN THE COUNTRY
and
AND SAVE YOURSELF £1,000s......
but you can't compare the price of a non-cat car to a cat-c car and then claim that you are saving £1000s and it's the cheapest in the country.
That's like advertising a Fiesta and claiming that by buying it you are saving yourself £1000s as opposed to if you bought a Ferrari !!
And judging by the comments other have made above, if you do buy a cat d, when it comes to selling you are instantly selling into a much smaller market. Most people says "There's nothing wrong with a cat-d ( or cat-c ), but I'd not buy one".
But this is not from a dealer and it's not a Cat D, it's a Cat C.
The ad says :
THIS IS THE CHEAPEST NOBLE GTO M12 3R IN THE COUNTRY
and
AND SAVE YOURSELF £1,000s......
but you can't compare the price of a non-cat car to a cat-c car and then claim that you are saving £1000s and it's the cheapest in the country.
That's like advertising a Fiesta and claiming that by buying it you are saving yourself £1000s as opposed to if you bought a Ferrari !!
And judging by the comments other have made above, if you do buy a cat d, when it comes to selling you are instantly selling into a much smaller market. Most people says "There's nothing wrong with a cat-d ( or cat-c ), but I'd not buy one".
GTO600 said:
If it were me l would want pictures of the damage & repair process, wouldn't put me off if it was done properly. R0162 Chris did this very successfully.
Cheers Kevin..+1 i would want to see to damage and the repair photos and i would quiz them on what process was used for getting the dimsensions for setting out and triangulating in order to know the repair is within tolerance..
The clips i would not be too worried as these are really just to hold the clams primarily so if the line up its ok...look for signs of the rivets tearing through the floor pans, it is a structural diaphragm so this would clearly show if there was any movement, as for something to come out of square then the plate must have given at some point..
If you can get me some pics then i can advise better..
I loved the look of it when I first saw it on Ebay. Thought he had realised that it was a bit to cheap for such a good looking car and that would also put people off. I am asking around the same for mine but it is a 2.5 with all the mods and more. Try and have a drive, it will tell you loads. Would say come and look at mine and I would talk you though some of the mods and quirks but the 3R is quite a different car. Good luck.
CAT X is about nothing more than perception - unfortunately perception affects car prices (as it does the stock market) in the negative. So long as you've done the checks and are happy with the car, AND can take a hit on the resale (and take longer to sell when the time comes) go for it and enjoy 
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