C2W - Opinions Needed!
Discussion
Afternoon all,
Had an email through last week to say that work are starting a C2W scheme next month. The last time we operated one (a couple of years back) the company we had to buy through was a bit limited/expensive.
This time they have decided to go with Halfords. Now I understand this not to be a bad thing as:
1. They have cracking value brands in Boardman and Carrera
2. They can order in a pretty good range of bikes including Cube, Felt, Merida, Dolan etc...
I should explain that i'm looking to get a better all round bike for racing/long rides. Would like 105 kit or equivalent, not fussed on Alu or Carbon frame, would like decent wheels to save upgrading at a later date.
My quandry is this...
Do I save a bit of money at the lower price end and go for something like the Boardman Road Team - Alu Frame, Shimano 105 and Mavic Aksium wheels or would I really notice any difference by going for a more expensive carbon/alloy model?
Other bikes for the melting pot are Carrera Virago, Cube Peloton Race, Merida Race Lite...
Never thought too much choice could be a bad thing!!
Dan
Had an email through last week to say that work are starting a C2W scheme next month. The last time we operated one (a couple of years back) the company we had to buy through was a bit limited/expensive.
This time they have decided to go with Halfords. Now I understand this not to be a bad thing as:
1. They have cracking value brands in Boardman and Carrera
2. They can order in a pretty good range of bikes including Cube, Felt, Merida, Dolan etc...
I should explain that i'm looking to get a better all round bike for racing/long rides. Would like 105 kit or equivalent, not fussed on Alu or Carbon frame, would like decent wheels to save upgrading at a later date.
My quandry is this...
Do I save a bit of money at the lower price end and go for something like the Boardman Road Team - Alu Frame, Shimano 105 and Mavic Aksium wheels or would I really notice any difference by going for a more expensive carbon/alloy model?
Other bikes for the melting pot are Carrera Virago, Cube Peloton Race, Merida Race Lite...
Never thought too much choice could be a bad thing!!
Dan
I had a 2008 alu Boardman, it was a fantastic bit of kit, ate up long distance sportives far more able than the rider.
only you can answer the "would i notice a difference with the next model up" question, as far as components go, the answer, if we are all being honest, is not really. Certainly not at the 105/Aksium level of kit which is very good. whats next Ultegra/Cosmic Equipes? well you might convince yourself you can notice a difference but i dont think you will. Sticking with the Shimano/Mavic comparisons its when you get to dura ace and ksyrium elites that there is a noticeable difference comapred to 105 and Aksiums... put it this way, 105 shares a lot of technical features and materials as higher end groupsets and Aksiums are rarely found on bikes costing much less than £1500 these days.
frame wise, yes you will more likely notice a difference but it gets dififcult, what are yu comapring? cheap alu with cheap carbon and premium alu with premium carbon? premium carbon frame is lovely, generally stiffer and more forgiving on a long ride as it can cope better at damping high frequency vibrations. Cheap carbon isnt as great, its a wild assumption but generally, less thought has gone into the directional design of the carbon to inmprove power transfer and comfort. very few of us really need to worry about this as we potle along at 20 mph but its nice to know that what is underneath me is approved by the peloton!
Cheap carbon isnt a by-word for failre or flex these days but its hard to compare it to premium alu and premium carbon as they are all designed for different markets and different pricepoints. Would i buy a £1000 carbon bike, probably not. the premium you pay for having carbon isnt enough to justify the poor spec and a £1K alu bike like the Boardman will last a long time and provide you just as many smiles.
only you can answer the "would i notice a difference with the next model up" question, as far as components go, the answer, if we are all being honest, is not really. Certainly not at the 105/Aksium level of kit which is very good. whats next Ultegra/Cosmic Equipes? well you might convince yourself you can notice a difference but i dont think you will. Sticking with the Shimano/Mavic comparisons its when you get to dura ace and ksyrium elites that there is a noticeable difference comapred to 105 and Aksiums... put it this way, 105 shares a lot of technical features and materials as higher end groupsets and Aksiums are rarely found on bikes costing much less than £1500 these days.
frame wise, yes you will more likely notice a difference but it gets dififcult, what are yu comapring? cheap alu with cheap carbon and premium alu with premium carbon? premium carbon frame is lovely, generally stiffer and more forgiving on a long ride as it can cope better at damping high frequency vibrations. Cheap carbon isnt as great, its a wild assumption but generally, less thought has gone into the directional design of the carbon to inmprove power transfer and comfort. very few of us really need to worry about this as we potle along at 20 mph but its nice to know that what is underneath me is approved by the peloton!
Cheap carbon isnt a by-word for failre or flex these days but its hard to compare it to premium alu and premium carbon as they are all designed for different markets and different pricepoints. Would i buy a £1000 carbon bike, probably not. the premium you pay for having carbon isnt enough to justify the poor spec and a £1K alu bike like the Boardman will last a long time and provide you just as many smiles.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 21st May 17:27
Cheers Pablo, quite a detailed reply!
Kind of what I was thinking really. I could probably get a better alu frame for the sort of money i'm looking at than a carbon one. I think the Boardman spec for the money would more than meet my requirements but temptation is always there to spend more!
Might see what offerings are available at Dolan when their web page is back up, i've still got a couple of weeks before the scheme is available!
Dan
Kind of what I was thinking really. I could probably get a better alu frame for the sort of money i'm looking at than a carbon one. I think the Boardman spec for the money would more than meet my requirements but temptation is always there to spend more!
Might see what offerings are available at Dolan when their web page is back up, i've still got a couple of weeks before the scheme is available!
Dan
+1 with what Pablo said.
Use 105 as your benchmark, going down from it you will notice the difference in shifting, but 105 to Ultegra seems aesthetic. Mate has just gone from a Spec Allez with 105 to a CAAD10 with Ultegra, the only noticeable difference he can make out is carbon brake levers over alloy ones! Shifting etc is the same as his 105 kit, in fact it took weeks to get the setup on the CAAD10 right!
I would also suggest doing a bit of homework on a wheel upgrade, while it is an additional expense you will get much better value upgrading the wheel set yourself instead of buying a bike with a decent set already fitted. I recently bought a CAADX for commuting/fun, the hubs were good but the rims were/are awful. Chucked them on the shelf for the winter and picked up a hand built set of 105 hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims for £150 from Rutland.
I have a 2010 Felt F75 which IMHO is a good mix of carbon/alloy. Frame is lightweight and reasonably stiff, the carbon seat stays, forks and seat post take the worst of the road buzz away from the rider. I can happily ride a short ride at a high pace, but am just as happy being sat in the saddle for an all day ride. I was having a chat with the staff at my LBS a couple of weeks ago, the general consensus was if you could only have one bike everyone would go for a top end alloy over a carbon, the main reason they gave was that carbon feels 'dead' in comparison to alloy (one of these guys rides a Dogma).......
Use 105 as your benchmark, going down from it you will notice the difference in shifting, but 105 to Ultegra seems aesthetic. Mate has just gone from a Spec Allez with 105 to a CAAD10 with Ultegra, the only noticeable difference he can make out is carbon brake levers over alloy ones! Shifting etc is the same as his 105 kit, in fact it took weeks to get the setup on the CAAD10 right!
I would also suggest doing a bit of homework on a wheel upgrade, while it is an additional expense you will get much better value upgrading the wheel set yourself instead of buying a bike with a decent set already fitted. I recently bought a CAADX for commuting/fun, the hubs were good but the rims were/are awful. Chucked them on the shelf for the winter and picked up a hand built set of 105 hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims for £150 from Rutland.
I have a 2010 Felt F75 which IMHO is a good mix of carbon/alloy. Frame is lightweight and reasonably stiff, the carbon seat stays, forks and seat post take the worst of the road buzz away from the rider. I can happily ride a short ride at a high pace, but am just as happy being sat in the saddle for an all day ride. I was having a chat with the staff at my LBS a couple of weeks ago, the general consensus was if you could only have one bike everyone would go for a top end alloy over a carbon, the main reason they gave was that carbon feels 'dead' in comparison to alloy (one of these guys rides a Dogma).......
Hmmm...the Dolan website is now back up and running. Liking the look of the Hercules SE with SRAM rival groupset!
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,struggling to hyperlink the damn thing! ETA Didn't realise it does it automatically!
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
One8Two said:
Hmmm...the Dolan website is now back up and running. Liking the look of the Hercules SE with SRAM rival groupset!
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,struggling to hyperlink the damn thing! ETA Didn't realise it does it automatically!
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
Unless they've relaxed the scheme in the last few days, can't see how you can get that bike - I was sure there was a £1k limit on the bikes? But that does look like a damn sweet ride .... if there is a £1k limit, you could probably pay the difference yourself?http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
clonmult said:
One8Two said:
Hmmm...the Dolan website is now back up and running. Liking the look of the Hercules SE with SRAM rival groupset!
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,struggling to hyperlink the damn thing! ETA Didn't realise it does it automatically!
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
Unless they've relaxed the scheme in the last few days, can't see how you can get that bike - I was sure there was a £1k limit on the bikes? But that does look like a damn sweet ride .... if there is a £1k limit, you could probably pay the difference yourself?http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
One8Two said:
clonmult said:
One8Two said:
Hmmm...the Dolan website is now back up and running. Liking the look of the Hercules SE with SRAM rival groupset!
http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,struggling to hyperlink the damn thing! ETA Didn't realise it does it automatically!
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
Unless they've relaxed the scheme in the last few days, can't see how you can get that bike - I was sure there was a £1k limit on the bikes? But that does look like a damn sweet ride .... if there is a £1k limit, you could probably pay the difference yourself?http://www.dolan-bikes.com/road-bikes/Carbon/Sram%...
Sorry for long link,
Anyone have any experience of Dolan bikes? Only came across them recently.
Dan
Good luck!
Re the groupset - I have dura ace (older 7800) on one bike, and new (5700) 105 on another - can't really tell the difference.
Wheels - you might notice a difference between a heavier wheelset and, say a Mavic Ksyrium. I have popped some Aksiums on my latest creation - good quality and they do the job.
I'd say that unless you do a lot of riding, it's hard to notice a huge difference between say the 105 and Ultegra/Dura Ace kit.
Go for a good quality frame and you can add newer, shinier stuff as and when....
Wheels - you might notice a difference between a heavier wheelset and, say a Mavic Ksyrium. I have popped some Aksiums on my latest creation - good quality and they do the job.
I'd say that unless you do a lot of riding, it's hard to notice a huge difference between say the 105 and Ultegra/Dura Ace kit.
Go for a good quality frame and you can add newer, shinier stuff as and when....
clonmult said:
Don't see why there should be a problem, at the end of the day the dealer gets the same amount of money for the bike, after all the scheme only gives you a voucher.
Good luck!
Unfortunately, this can't be done. The voucher has to cover the cost of the entire bike. Good luck!
You may find a dealer willing to accept a top up, but this is outside the scheme rules.
Elysium said:
clonmult said:
Don't see why there should be a problem, at the end of the day the dealer gets the same amount of money for the bike, after all the scheme only gives you a voucher.
Good luck!
Unfortunately, this can't be done. The voucher has to cover the cost of the entire bike. Good luck!
You may find a dealer willing to accept a top up, but this is outside the scheme rules.
clonmult said:
Elysium said:
clonmult said:
Don't see why there should be a problem, at the end of the day the dealer gets the same amount of money for the bike, after all the scheme only gives you a voucher.
Good luck!
Unfortunately, this can't be done. The voucher has to cover the cost of the entire bike. Good luck!
You may find a dealer willing to accept a top up, but this is outside the scheme rules.
clonmult said:
That's a bit, er, crap isn't it? Stupidly restrictive, I don't see what they gain from being so restrictive.
1k will buy a bike that is perfectly capable to bike to work on. A 1k bike is beyond most peoples wildest dreams. So why would they subsidise more!. You dont need the latest 3k carbon monster for the average commute!!The 1k limit isn't about how much the government is prepared to subsidise.
If your employer has a consumer credit licence they can, I believe, let you spend as much as you want. The 1k limit only applies if your employer doesn't have a CC licence.
My employer lets us spend up to 2k. I believe they could go higher, but are inclined to disbelieve the notion of someone dropping 9k on a Venge Di2 truly using it primarily for the commute!
If your employer has a consumer credit licence they can, I believe, let you spend as much as you want. The 1k limit only applies if your employer doesn't have a CC licence.
My employer lets us spend up to 2k. I believe they could go higher, but are inclined to disbelieve the notion of someone dropping 9k on a Venge Di2 truly using it primarily for the commute!
Well after a bit of deliberating I decided on the Dolan Mythos with Rival groupset. Got a penny change from the max scheme value.
Spoken to the guys at Dolan and they have been great in helping size the bike properly (or as great as you can over the phone!)
Shiny new bike should be ready in 2-3 weeks...
Dan
Spoken to the guys at Dolan and they have been great in helping size the bike properly (or as great as you can over the phone!)
Shiny new bike should be ready in 2-3 weeks...
Dan
Jimboka said:
1k will buy a bike that is perfectly capable to bike to work on. A 1k bike is beyond most peoples wildest dreams. So why would they subsidise more!. You dont need the latest 3k carbon monster for the average commute!!
I agree. I have a 20km commute, and the last few km is through Hackney: most people are riding ancient fixies or mountain bikes worth about £20. I must look a proper Charlie by comparison, but I don't care. clonmult said:
Elysium said:
clonmult said:
Don't see why there should be a problem, at the end of the day the dealer gets the same amount of money for the bike, after all the scheme only gives you a voucher.
Good luck!
Unfortunately, this can't be done. The voucher has to cover the cost of the entire bike. Good luck!
You may find a dealer willing to accept a top up, but this is outside the scheme rules.
I've been to Halfords to choose a bike and because I'm disabled, no off-the-shelf bike is suitable. However, Halfords are able to order a custom-made bike suitable for my disability but not for £500.
I'm considering my options here but may have to resort to using the Equality Act 2010, as this may be considered discrimination.
Flawless Victory said:
I've just enquired about my employers cycle to work scheme and it's £500!
I've been to Halfords to choose a bike and because I'm disabled, no off-the-shelf bike is suitable. However, Halfords are able to order a custom-made bike suitable for my disability but not for £500.
I'm considering my options here but may have to resort to using the Equality Act 2010, as this may be considered discrimination.
You might want to check that. Is it £500 voucher value, or "it'll cost you £500 because it's 50% off innit"?I've been to Halfords to choose a bike and because I'm disabled, no off-the-shelf bike is suitable. However, Halfords are able to order a custom-made bike suitable for my disability but not for £500.
I'm considering my options here but may have to resort to using the Equality Act 2010, as this may be considered discrimination.
DDA is what you want, surely. Reasonable adjustments.
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