Monday 13th May 2002

X5 'Sport'

The 347bhp X5 4.6is rolls into town

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[DDB355]

"....Strange then, that all 150 UK examples will arrive from Spartanburg, Tennessee..."

The BMW X5 is made in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I live in Columbia SC, and have toured the plant. It is also the birth place of the Z3 and M Roadster.

David D.

[Bodo]

So it's running on rapeseed oil!?

[Leithen]

Hmmm .... One suspects the Cayenne will eat said subject for breakfast - the hope is that said breakfast will remain safely digested....

[DDB355]

Porsche Cayenne is a joke. Its Porsche. BMW is a luxury/sport brand, but the purity of Porsche will be destroyed when the SUV is launched. I think it will sell well for the first year, then will flop into a 928.

[Roadrunner]

Anyone that would choose to spend 60k on a cayenne over a 911 is a ing retard.

[marki]

Some people need the space to lug Stuff around

[Roadrunner]

You can fit little Rupert and Felicity in the back of a 911.

[ZZR600]

Never seen any of these 4x4's (apart from landies) doing off roading ,they are waste of money for the school run look what ive got car park status

[DDB355]

quote:
Some people need the space to lug Stuff around

I was at my local Porsche dealership a few months ago looking at Carrera Targa, and the salesperson brought up the Cayenne. Evidently he didn't do so well on selling me on it, claiming it was a vehicle in which you could tow your 911 to the track with, then outpace it while there.

If you can afford the Cayenne, and you need the space, buy a lower cost sport ute, and still have money left over for a BMW M3/Porsche Boxster/Corvette, etc. The only justification for this vehicle is status, the second of two types of Porsche buyers. In my opinion, the average Porsche customer buys a Porsche for performance, then looks/status/whatever.

Is a 450hp SUV really necessary? ".....Introducing the Porsche for the soccer mom..."

Dave D.

[Leithen]

quote:
The only justification for this vehicle is status, the second of two types of Porsche buyers. In my opinion, the average Porsche customer buys a Porsche for performance, then looks/status/whatever.

Is a 450hp SUV really necessary? ".....Introducing the Porsche for the soccer mom..."

Proud to stand up to the plate as candidate for ing retard who isn't a soccer mum.... let me explain why....

Already have 911

Would love new model (still haven't devised key knicking strategy from Mcnab) -

But first have to purchase car to do 30k miles a year in ....

Cope with ice, snow, farm tracks, dogs, kegs of beer, computer boxes and other crap involved in running two businesses 60 miles apart

Having the certifiable disease of being a complete and utter petrolhead - need vehicle to have as much horsepower as possible and all the gadgets..... and go much faster than reasonable......

Now I can't afford a Cayenne - instead venerable Golf V5 which has been rescued from ditch after losing it on black ice, abused and tortured over on and off roads, isn't fast enough, doesn't have 4WD, isn't great at lugging large crap, but is very comfortable, will have to do me for a while.....

Which leads me to conclude that the Cayenne Twin Turbo is my ideal vehicle.... after which a new Targa would do just fine thank you.....

[craigalsop]

How about a 2nd hand Jap import 5 door Subaru Impreza WRX STI (old shape) or, if you need more space an imported Legacy Estate twin turbo?
Would seem to give the practicality & performance that you require (lots of tuners out there who can give more oomph if necessary)

cheers,
Craig

[Leithen]

Craig, you're on the money there - the Subaru route is one I have thought very hard about over the years - have driven both and mighty impressed by their performance. Reliability is meant to be bulletproof and they are quite easy to pick up these days......

My only concern is that they don't really pamper enough - not a problem doing normal mileage - but I spend 3-4 hours a day in the bloody thing and I've never been that confident how relaxed I might be when I arrive at my destination.

My old V5 has all it's faults, but against those it has the most wonderful leather Recaro seats and feels like a minature Bentley to drive. I also hanker after the "height factor" that made the Discovery I had for 70K miles one of the easiest and most relaxing cars to rack up the miles in......

Cheers

Christian

[Roadrunner]

You don't need a 60 grand porsche cayenne to: lug crap around, go to the dump, drop the kids off at school, put a computer in the boot, add high mileage etc. Any old jeep / estate / hatch will do. The only reason is badge snobbery amongst other school moms. Even if you have a 911 already, why not get a cheap alternative AND upgrade to a turbo, or GT2, or even add a 355 to the stable? Madness. Utter madness.

[Steve Harrison]

This is just technical masturbation by BMW/Porsche.

First take a truck with a CofG yards off the ground, weighing as much as a small house and with moments of inertia to make a sumo champion blush

Then demonstrate engineering prowess by making said truck drive and handle as much like a proper car as possible.

I am reminded of the venerable Dr Johnson who is said to have remarked when seeing a dog walk on its hind legs "It is not done well, but then one is surprised to see it done at all."

[Leithen]

quote:
Any old jeep / estate / hatch will do. The only reason is badge snobbery amongst other school moms.

Nope, Roadrunner, Any old anything certainly will not do - start racking up the miles to 30k plus, throw in Perthshire winter conditions, farm tracks etc - life is Oh so much better in something a lot better than "Any old......"

I've tried the X5 - but in the same way I never got to love my 325i Coupe, it just didn't seem to fit - something about Beemers and me I suppose. My Disco fitted the bill in a much better way - was much better at crunching the miles - nice engine groove at 75/80 in an armchair - almost got used to the ship like handling as well (passengers never did though).

Badge Snobbery - sorry to disappoint - I'd happily drive a Lada if it fitted the bill. I'm one of the small minority who regard Porsche "Purists" who see the Cayenne as sacrilege as the real snobs. If it is well designed, well engineered I'll happily sit behind the wheel.

And as for being a soccer mum..... sex change not on the cards let alone any affiliation to that poncy game with people writhing around on the floor in agony after they've been tickled by someone else - stick 'em all up against the All Blacks for 20 minutes and that'll teach them what real pain means.....

I'll readily accept that I'm one of the few who would use an SUV's features to the full - can't speak for those who wouldn't and want to buy one though.

£60,000 is way to rich for me but I'd order one tommorrow if I could afford it..... only then would I start to think about going crazy on the supercar side of things - got to prioritise I'm afraid - crazy to spend all day in a shed and only a few minutes in something nice...... all in my humble opinion of course...

[DIGGA]

Leithen, I agree, if you're racking up the miles, you need comfort. I also know exactly waht you mean about 'not being comfortable' with the BMW badge/image.

I don't do the mileage you do, but I do need all weather practicality and load lugging ability, which is why I run a Nissan double-cab pick up ,as well as the Griff. Apart from high mileage where more power and refinement are required, you'd be pushed to justify spending more on a 4x4. You get aircon, 6 CD autochangers etc. at a fraction on the price of a 'status' 4x4, and you only pay 500 squid a year tax because it's classed as a commercial.

When the weather is bad, or, as on Friday, when some dickhead changed lanes into the side of my car at Heathrow (can't quite understand how/why they managed that) I'm pleased not to be driving my pride & joy.

I think most 4x4's miss this point, and as people here rightly comment, the designers are softening the cars to meet the compromise of normal (i.e not load lugging, mud plugging etc.) everyday users.

[Leithen]

Digga, the thought had crossed my mind..... double cab pickup is very tempting indeed, plus commercial classification, VAT back and the possibility of an LPG conversion too...... my only reservation is the chassis technology on these vehicles - all a bit archaic - I'm doing a high mileage and needing a compromise between all four extremes - Motorway, Twisty A/B-Road, City and Farming - if I wasn't doing so many miles on Motorway/A Road it could be the perfect answer.....

How do you find the Nissan?

[craigalsop]

quote:
My only concern is that they don't really pamper enough - not a problem doing normal mileage - but I spend 3-4 hours a day in the bloody thing and I've never been that confident how relaxed I might be when I arrive at my destination.

My old V5 has all it's faults, but against those it has the most wonderful leather Recaro seats and feels like a minature Bentley to drive. I also hanker after the "height factor" that made the Discovery I had for 70K miles one of the easiest and most relaxing cars to rack up the miles in......

Cheers

Christian

Just add Recaro seats to the car - I've had Recaros in both the Imprezas that I have owned. It is a dealer fit option, so quite a few of the second hand cars will have them already. In my old 5-door Turbo, I used to do around 25K miles a year in it & found it very comfortable & reliable - when I traded it in for a P1 at 75K miles it was still going strong.
In terms of "height factor", can't help you there I'm afraid, although grin factor helps quite a bit
I guess you could always get a rally tuner to raise the suspension with an offroad setup.....
cheers,
Craig

[moleamol]

I think everyone seems to be missing an important point here. That is, the Cayenne is one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen, it is a sell out to try and get silly rich people who are into current trends to spend more than is needed on a practical car.

I'd take the Audi Quattro Allroad any day, quick, very well engineered, very comfortable, good spec, able to cope with any of the situations you mentioned, high enough to make you feel higher than other people (?). And actually looks quite nice, Porsche should stick to sports cars. Saying that though, the 911 has been getting more and more like an SUV for many years now!

[Leithen]

I'd reserve judgement until the beast is seen in the flesh moleamol - the latest pics seem to show it in a better light - it's kind of growing on me, not that I'll be able to afford one in the near future - but then maybe I've got sod all taste...


Sell out - don't agree - once it arrives I think you'll find it does everything other SUV's have done much better - sure it will cost, but if people are prepared to pay you can't blame Porsche for tapping the market.

Audi Allroad - just a ride height enhanced estate - a mate's got one - its very AUDI - lovely quality etc, great for visiting auctions and driving across the odd pasture, but just like most SUV's few will ever be asked to do any more.....

Height - well over long distances I think it makes life so much easier. Perthshire to Devon and back in my Disco once in atrocious weather conditions was a doddle - able to look over most cars, see danger further ahead without craning neck or changing lane - just a personal preference I suppose.

Porsche stick to sportcars - still haven't heard a good argument to back that one up - personally they could manufacture three wheelers for all I care - as long as they are the best three wheelers, well engineered etc. Won't stop me buying a new 911 when I can afford one - I'll judge each car on its merits alone - not the badge, marque, brand etc.

Current 911 like an SUV..... I suspect you haven't driven one - but maybe you have, suffice to say couldn't disagree more....