What tuners want ?
Discussion
I'd be interested to hear what tuners have or would like to have in their workshop. Think of it as an ideal fantasy workshop. I think that some tuners seem to rise above the game, when using their expertise, coupled with some of the better 'tools', a tuner can arm himself with. Perhaps it would be a good idea for PH'ers to know what a 'good' tuner should have or have use of ? The more I think about the way I would like to get a car tuned, the more I think that I would like to have it designed and built, bespoke to the car, with a tuner with the development skills behind him.
Some tuners might just build a car/engine based on what bits are already available to bolt on. I would rather go to a tuner who expands the envelope and develops your car. Would you tuners rather have somebody say, "okay, order me some bespoke pistons from the USA to your design" etc etc? It just seems the way I would go. For example, I would be more inclined to buy a spare cylinder head and give the head to a tuner to experiment with, along with a development budget for his hours on the flow bench, or CFD etc. Talking of which, I'll get the ball rolling with the list. Fill free to add in some details or other comments.
SolidWorks 3D CAD/Stress Software
4WD rolling road (Which type/make is best?)
Engine Dyno Cell?
Flow Bench ?
CNC lathe and milling machine ?
A supply of WideBand sensors ?
Air supply with air sockets/chisels etc ?
Do alot of tuners have TIG/MIG welders ?
Digital Weight scales ?
Regards John S
Some tuners might just build a car/engine based on what bits are already available to bolt on. I would rather go to a tuner who expands the envelope and develops your car. Would you tuners rather have somebody say, "okay, order me some bespoke pistons from the USA to your design" etc etc? It just seems the way I would go. For example, I would be more inclined to buy a spare cylinder head and give the head to a tuner to experiment with, along with a development budget for his hours on the flow bench, or CFD etc. Talking of which, I'll get the ball rolling with the list. Fill free to add in some details or other comments.
SolidWorks 3D CAD/Stress Software
4WD rolling road (Which type/make is best?)
Engine Dyno Cell?
Flow Bench ?
CNC lathe and milling machine ?
A supply of WideBand sensors ?
Air supply with air sockets/chisels etc ?
Do alot of tuners have TIG/MIG welders ?
Digital Weight scales ?
Regards John S
My own "personal" workshop has: engine hoist(1 ton), engine stand(400kg), 10 ton press, 3 ton trolley jack, various axle stands,
Diagnostic tools that range from snap-on strobe to engine analyser(basic),carb balancer, various other specialist tools including multimeters, wireless tacho/voltage analyser, full pipe/tube flaring kit from sykes(the expensive one for doing brakes and fuel injection pipework),snap-on tap and die kit(big), multitude of sockets, spanners and wrenches, air tools, measuring tools (digi vernier, bore gauge and micrometer),hydraulic gear puller kit,large and small torque wrenches and some other bits and bobs that i cant remember right now.
Still, its not how big yer spanner is, its the way ya crack yer nuts that counts...
Diagnostic tools that range from snap-on strobe to engine analyser(basic),carb balancer, various other specialist tools including multimeters, wireless tacho/voltage analyser, full pipe/tube flaring kit from sykes(the expensive one for doing brakes and fuel injection pipework),snap-on tap and die kit(big), multitude of sockets, spanners and wrenches, air tools, measuring tools (digi vernier, bore gauge and micrometer),hydraulic gear puller kit,large and small torque wrenches and some other bits and bobs that i cant remember right now.
Still, its not how big yer spanner is, its the way ya crack yer nuts that counts...
It's a tough one this.
In addition to the above- the engine crane,
compressor, diagnotic tools, emissions kit...etc
I ALREADY have access to alot of analytical packages, such as CFD, And 1 D cycle simulation code, that predicts performance- and I would certainly rate over your averagge joe-schmo back street chasis dyno. You can litterally cut MONTHS of fruitless testing with very reliable results IF used correctly....
I also had access to a collegues Super flow bench, but he's gotten involved in tuning Mini- officially- and working with BMW and John Cooper- so he's lucky- but busy so It's difficult to use him.
I really could do with either buying a flow rig or buying one ( would you be interested in going halves or something- Matt-T16?).
A good Chasis Dyno would be great- Some chip companies use a water brake dyno setup and is not the same as the industry standard inertial wheel dyno:Water brake dynos are good for tuning at a specific rpm range, but provide poor transitional tuning....inertia dynos are far better at tuning a chip or engine for real life racing or street driving. It is much harder because there is not much time to "set the duty cycle" or map on a inertial dyno, but it can be done. Most race teams and tuners now use inertial dunos to set fuel and ign curves.
For chasis Dynos I favour Dynojets 248 (b,c,e etc).
Properly calibrated engine dynos are ideal, but extorsinately expensive. I use these alot at work.
The problem with some of the equipment above- such as the CFD analytical packages , the steady state flow rigs, the performance predicting software and the dynos, is that it is very rare that you will find one person conversent and good at using it all- especially these days. And you DO need BOTH. I've come across many old school "blacksmiths" that dismiss the modern analytical software as black magic mumbo jumbo and untrustworthy. This is their own folly- the software CAN be good, its only as good as the skill of the user. Likewise- I'm sure we're all familiar with the much over portrayed but sometimes valid stereotype of the PHd and degreed University guy who believes all theory blindly over test data and is a bit of a mad professor (this image is over portrayed over here in the UK where it's not "cool" to be nerdy, by threattened mechanics who call themselves engineers and where qualifications don't mean as much as other countries)- well this is just as naive and stupid.
So you need that rare combination of both-hands on technical expertise combined with good trustworthy engineering judgement. I wouldn't trust my projects to anyone less- hence I do them myself!
In addition to the above- the engine crane,
compressor, diagnotic tools, emissions kit...etc
I ALREADY have access to alot of analytical packages, such as CFD, And 1 D cycle simulation code, that predicts performance- and I would certainly rate over your averagge joe-schmo back street chasis dyno. You can litterally cut MONTHS of fruitless testing with very reliable results IF used correctly....
I also had access to a collegues Super flow bench, but he's gotten involved in tuning Mini- officially- and working with BMW and John Cooper- so he's lucky- but busy so It's difficult to use him.
I really could do with either buying a flow rig or buying one ( would you be interested in going halves or something- Matt-T16?).
A good Chasis Dyno would be great- Some chip companies use a water brake dyno setup and is not the same as the industry standard inertial wheel dyno:Water brake dynos are good for tuning at a specific rpm range, but provide poor transitional tuning....inertia dynos are far better at tuning a chip or engine for real life racing or street driving. It is much harder because there is not much time to "set the duty cycle" or map on a inertial dyno, but it can be done. Most race teams and tuners now use inertial dunos to set fuel and ign curves.
For chasis Dynos I favour Dynojets 248 (b,c,e etc).
Properly calibrated engine dynos are ideal, but extorsinately expensive. I use these alot at work.
The problem with some of the equipment above- such as the CFD analytical packages , the steady state flow rigs, the performance predicting software and the dynos, is that it is very rare that you will find one person conversent and good at using it all- especially these days. And you DO need BOTH. I've come across many old school "blacksmiths" that dismiss the modern analytical software as black magic mumbo jumbo and untrustworthy. This is their own folly- the software CAN be good, its only as good as the skill of the user. Likewise- I'm sure we're all familiar with the much over portrayed but sometimes valid stereotype of the PHd and degreed University guy who believes all theory blindly over test data and is a bit of a mad professor (this image is over portrayed over here in the UK where it's not "cool" to be nerdy, by threattened mechanics who call themselves engineers and where qualifications don't mean as much as other countries)- well this is just as naive and stupid.
So you need that rare combination of both-hands on technical expertise combined with good trustworthy engineering judgement. I wouldn't trust my projects to anyone less- hence I do them myself!
I used to think that in order to make a good job of tuning a car you needed all the equipment. Then I got wise.
Most work is contracted out to specialists who know what they are doing. Andy Rouse and many of the Jag specialists in Coventry get machining at Chesman Engineering in Coventry. You need to find somebody who can balance the engine (for example, Ilmor (as in Formula One) use Chesman Engineering in Coventry).
If you are allowed by the regulations to fit steel components and different pistons then you can just buy whatever you need from Farndon etc.
If you are really serious e.g. a touring car team, you make a number of cylinder heads to a designed experiment, optimising both flow and combustion chamber then select the characteristics that suit the application best.
For OE applications a single cylinder engine is used as a baseline before making the real engine.
Having access to analysis software could provide the basis for a design to which you have your machinists make parts. Then you need simple measuring tools - burette, feeler gauges, plasticine, calipers to build it.
You need a clean room to build the engine, a dyno (a Froude water brake dyno would do, but ideally a Scheck eddy current one would be easier to control) and a small workshop to install the engine. You could achieve the above in three lock-up garages.
I think the key to success is being able to set up the fuel injection and ignition. Many tuners fall down in this area, but if you cannot calibrate the engine then a lot of effort is wasted. It may be better to fit crude but effective devices (carbs, advance weights) than botch a fuel injection set up.
Once you have the baseline engine settings sorted on the dyno the next step is setting up the engine for transient response.
Of course it's easier said than done but in most cases of successful tuning I have seen the above used as a model.
Most work is contracted out to specialists who know what they are doing. Andy Rouse and many of the Jag specialists in Coventry get machining at Chesman Engineering in Coventry. You need to find somebody who can balance the engine (for example, Ilmor (as in Formula One) use Chesman Engineering in Coventry).
If you are allowed by the regulations to fit steel components and different pistons then you can just buy whatever you need from Farndon etc.
If you are really serious e.g. a touring car team, you make a number of cylinder heads to a designed experiment, optimising both flow and combustion chamber then select the characteristics that suit the application best.
For OE applications a single cylinder engine is used as a baseline before making the real engine.
Having access to analysis software could provide the basis for a design to which you have your machinists make parts. Then you need simple measuring tools - burette, feeler gauges, plasticine, calipers to build it.
You need a clean room to build the engine, a dyno (a Froude water brake dyno would do, but ideally a Scheck eddy current one would be easier to control) and a small workshop to install the engine. You could achieve the above in three lock-up garages.
I think the key to success is being able to set up the fuel injection and ignition. Many tuners fall down in this area, but if you cannot calibrate the engine then a lot of effort is wasted. It may be better to fit crude but effective devices (carbs, advance weights) than botch a fuel injection set up.
Once you have the baseline engine settings sorted on the dyno the next step is setting up the engine for transient response.
Of course it's easier said than done but in most cases of successful tuning I have seen the above used as a model.
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