DS rallying - more silverware!
Discussion
PH's johnfm and I took the DS on the Ilkley Jubilee yesterday.
We were right down in the lowest novice section but we still came away with a first in class and had a bloody terrific day.
The car took one hell of a battering though. It started on arrival when we decided to tidy away some hanging wires in the engine bay with a plastic cable tie. Everything looked very neat but when I turned the key - nothing. Oh s
t. After half an hour of swearing, crying and wiggling things John found the right wire (in a nest of hundreds) that we'd ever so slightly disconnected and we were back in business.
Then we noticed water pissing out of the top of the heat exchanger. An awful lot of water. Turned out the nice new gasket we'd only put on the day before had failed spectacularly. We did some emergency open heart surgery and bypassed the whole heat exchanger with a short length of aluminium tube and some jubilee clips. Ready to rally once again...
Then followed 150 miles of regularities and 10 tests. The tests were especially hard on the DS given that we've got front wheel drive and the handbrake works on the front wheels too - not to easy to fling it 360 degrees round a cone. Still, we knuckled down, kept our feet in and got through them.
The 9th test was our undoing though as we punctured the front offside tyre. This couldn't have happened in a worse spot as we were in a queue of 10 cars waiting to be escorted to the other side of a reservoir complex ready for the mile long offroad stage to complete the tests. We managed to find some hard standing, flung the car off the road and swapped the tyre for the spare and cracked on.
Feeling pretty chuffed with ourselves we trundled back to the finish for a well earned pint. Then followed a hearty dinner, prize givings (which we got a round of applause from everyone despite being the donkeys winning the lowest class
) and then out to go home.
Oh look, we've managed to puncture the spare too: fk a duck.
A very kind chap quickly grabbed his portable tyre inflator and we managed to drive it 6 miles to Ilkley before it failed again. A quick top up with air (to 40 psi) at Ilkley Tesco gave us just enough to make it back to Skipton (11 miles) where the tyre was valiantly clinging on to its last 8psi. Phew.
This morning I was supposed to be working but instead cracked on with:
We had an absolute blast. The work and effort that goes into the whole thing by IDMC and all the marshals is quite incredible, they did a great job.
We now know where we lost time and received penalties - this was out first ever regularity rally - so we'll be back next year to win the whole damned thing!
Allez les rouges...
We were right down in the lowest novice section but we still came away with a first in class and had a bloody terrific day.
The car took one hell of a battering though. It started on arrival when we decided to tidy away some hanging wires in the engine bay with a plastic cable tie. Everything looked very neat but when I turned the key - nothing. Oh s
t. After half an hour of swearing, crying and wiggling things John found the right wire (in a nest of hundreds) that we'd ever so slightly disconnected and we were back in business.Then we noticed water pissing out of the top of the heat exchanger. An awful lot of water. Turned out the nice new gasket we'd only put on the day before had failed spectacularly. We did some emergency open heart surgery and bypassed the whole heat exchanger with a short length of aluminium tube and some jubilee clips. Ready to rally once again...
Then followed 150 miles of regularities and 10 tests. The tests were especially hard on the DS given that we've got front wheel drive and the handbrake works on the front wheels too - not to easy to fling it 360 degrees round a cone. Still, we knuckled down, kept our feet in and got through them.
The 9th test was our undoing though as we punctured the front offside tyre. This couldn't have happened in a worse spot as we were in a queue of 10 cars waiting to be escorted to the other side of a reservoir complex ready for the mile long offroad stage to complete the tests. We managed to find some hard standing, flung the car off the road and swapped the tyre for the spare and cracked on.
Feeling pretty chuffed with ourselves we trundled back to the finish for a well earned pint. Then followed a hearty dinner, prize givings (which we got a round of applause from everyone despite being the donkeys winning the lowest class
) and then out to go home.Oh look, we've managed to puncture the spare too: f
k a duck.A very kind chap quickly grabbed his portable tyre inflator and we managed to drive it 6 miles to Ilkley before it failed again. A quick top up with air (to 40 psi) at Ilkley Tesco gave us just enough to make it back to Skipton (11 miles) where the tyre was valiantly clinging on to its last 8psi. Phew.
This morning I was supposed to be working but instead cracked on with:
We had an absolute blast. The work and effort that goes into the whole thing by IDMC and all the marshals is quite incredible, they did a great job.
We now know where we lost time and received penalties - this was out first ever regularity rally - so we'll be back next year to win the whole damned thing!
Allez les rouges...
Edited by benjj on Monday 23 April 13:25
benjj said:
Sadly hydraulic handbrakes are banned under MSA/FIA rules. Damn them
OK. Change rear calipers to incorporate a mechanical handbrake? Dunno how this would work with the Citroen system. Or change discs to incorporate brake shoes inside?I'd have that apart by now in the workshop!!
Keep us posted on your other forrays please!
Well done Ben and John, I've seen a good photo on Facebook showing you with about 25 degrees of roll to Port at Skipton 
I've attached a link, but I don't know if it will work???
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=39889146681...
Seriously I would't worry about the Handbrake, you might gain a handful of seconds on the tight tests, but in reality not that many competitors use the Handbrake to turn and over all what you could gain on that wouldn't make any discernible difference. I can't see how you could gain enough momentum to rotate the DS on the H/brake, it's just too long. Quickest method for you and I think the one Warren Chumura used to use was just use the good turning circle and sweep round loosing as little forward motion as possible, I'm guessing you did that anyway.
In six years of competing, I still haven't managed a decent turn around a cone using the handbrake (I even had a Hydraulic for a short while), I just boot it round on the Diff... mind you RWD and a proper LSD help, on the loose mine will rotate in it's own length.
I've attached a link, but I don't know if it will work???
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=39889146681...
Seriously I would't worry about the Handbrake, you might gain a handful of seconds on the tight tests, but in reality not that many competitors use the Handbrake to turn and over all what you could gain on that wouldn't make any discernible difference. I can't see how you could gain enough momentum to rotate the DS on the H/brake, it's just too long. Quickest method for you and I think the one Warren Chumura used to use was just use the good turning circle and sweep round loosing as little forward motion as possible, I'm guessing you did that anyway.
In six years of competing, I still haven't managed a decent turn around a cone using the handbrake (I even had a Hydraulic for a short while), I just boot it round on the Diff... mind you RWD and a proper LSD help, on the loose mine will rotate in it's own length.
Edited by velocemitch on Monday 23 April 19:13
Thanks for the link Ian, that pic is quite good
Fair point on the handbrake. To be perfectly honest it would be beyond my mechanical skills to do and its not something that would win us much time, as you say.
I'm currently having a look at the classifieds to see if I can find a strong RWD classic snotter for rally work. Thinking MGB but would prefer Italian. We'll see...
Fair point on the handbrake. To be perfectly honest it would be beyond my mechanical skills to do and its not something that would win us much time, as you say.
I'm currently having a look at the classifieds to see if I can find a strong RWD classic snotter for rally work. Thinking MGB but would prefer Italian. We'll see...
Edited by benjj on Tuesday 24th April 09:34
Well done Ben, all looking good, great to see the 'old girl' out on the road!
Maybe we need another run round the reservoirs one evening?
Incidentally, I spotted a silver DS in Skipton last Saturday, near Raikes Lane, anything to do with you? My daughter wasn't as excited as I was...
As for a RWD - you know a rorty Italian can only be a good thing?!
Maybe we need another run round the reservoirs one evening?
Incidentally, I spotted a silver DS in Skipton last Saturday, near Raikes Lane, anything to do with you? My daughter wasn't as excited as I was...
As for a RWD - you know a rorty Italian can only be a good thing?!
HebdenHedgehog said:
Incidentally, I spotted a silver DS in Skipton last Saturday, near Raikes Lane, anything to do with you? My daughter wasn't as excited as I was...
Its not mine but I know the chap who owns it. He lives directly opposite my in-laws on Grassington Road. I've had the DS out of storage for a while as I took it to France rallying the other week and then Ilkley on Sunday. I'm off again this Sunday for 6 days rallying in the Highlands. I've been keeping it on father-in-law's drive for that time where I can work on it in peace and the neighbour casually mentioned that he's got two. I've never seen them around until I went over to have a look. He's a top chap.
I'm surprised to see you using the jack - I thought this was a USP for the DS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxPaV-R0eI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxPaV-R0eI
davepoth said:
I'm surprised to see you using the jack - I thought this was a USP for the DS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxPaV-R0eI
It is a stand rather than a jack. It can run on 3 wheels but only really the back wheel off.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxPaV-R0eI
benjj said:
Hmm, will give it some thought. The front brakes are inboard disks, the rears are hub mounted drums. Both are hydropneumatically operated from the hydropump.
I'd imagine the only option is a completely bespoke and regulation qualifying system, it beats the st out of me though
Well, I reckon I would have a look at replacing the pivot point of the shoes opposite the present cylinder and modding the shoes and backplate to take another hydraulic cylinder which could be operated by a secondary lever.I'd imagine the only option is a completely bespoke and regulation qualifying system, it beats the s
t out of me though Or, how about a line lock to the front brakes? Operate that, stamp on the footbrake, err button thing, and hey presto, locked back wheels!
Jeez, you'd need to remeber to switch it off before doing an emergency stop!! Some sort of interlock system would take care of that.
There's some video on U-Tube of one of the Skipton Tests, sadly doesn't cover Ben's DS. But it's interesting to watch the techniques, very few ever touch the handbrake. The quicker guys (usually the Escort riders), will still use the diff to rotate it, most just take a big sweep.
Continental stuff;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&...
British Stuff;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK3gppG43zQ&fea...
Fords;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrAN9fNZqxc&fea...
Continental stuff;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&...
British Stuff;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK3gppG43zQ&fea...
Fords;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrAN9fNZqxc&fea...
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