Who is running tubeless offroad?
Discussion
I am.
It's crap.
Don't bother.
I'm fitting tubes this weekend.
For an alternative view the Tubeless faithful will be along any moment.
Just remember the ONLY accepted advantage to Tubeless is the ability to run lower tyres pressures without pinch flats. If that is an advantage to you, why not, if not, why bother.
It's crap.
Don't bother.
I'm fitting tubes this weekend.
For an alternative view the Tubeless faithful will be along any moment.
Just remember the ONLY accepted advantage to Tubeless is the ability to run lower tyres pressures without pinch flats. If that is an advantage to you, why not, if not, why bother.
I've gor Fulcrum wheels and panaracer tubeless tyres on my Yeti, and havent had a single puncture in the 5 years since I started using them. I did have Mountain King tyres originally, and only swapped them because I had worn them down to slicks. I Don't them especially low on pressure as most of the cycling I do at the moment is with a small urchin in a trailer attached to the back of the bike. On the pros/Cons argument, I have only run tubeless on this bike, and have only run this bike tubeless, so cant really make claims about the perceived weight saving/faster rolling nonsense. I can definately say that I used to get through tubes almost monthly, and I dont any more...
pablo said:
the BFe is for general hooligan behaviour so i'm hoping to avoid pinch flats from heavy landings, not that i have suffered from them in the past as i usually run 45-50 psi dependant upon conditions but thats in xc mode.
Then I really wouldn't bother. I'm not sure if I've been unlucky, or I lack some sort of tubeless mechanical sympathy, but I bought a lovely Spicy 516 back in Sept, it came with Fulcrum Redzone wheels (UST) and come crappy Conti's that I switched for Maxxis LUST tyres. That should be the easiest thing in the world, but whatever I do, pumping up two tyres has become part of my normal pre-ride list.
I really detest anything unreliable, I just want to ride my bloody bike.
I've looked into Tubeless in detail and frankly once you get past all the Bike Forum BS, marketing BS and general smoke and mirrors the only advantage is they don't pinchflat, you can still get punctures via all the other normal ways - only they're twice as hard to fix (see below), plus you're handicapped with a limited tyre choice, more expensive tyres, and far more potential to be left sat in the woods with a flat tyre and walking home.
If you pinch a lot, buy Dh tubes or run a few more PSI, it's far less effort for the same result.
If you want to reduce rotating mass, tubeless won’t do that.
How to fix tubeless......
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Three-Wa...
None or which is exactly a trailside repair, so you're still going to have to take a tube with you.
Got Stans 355 rims on my Orange and they have been great. The reason I went tubeless is to prevent punctures, which has been a success. I think in 3 years or so, I have had one puncture, and that was my own fault for not topping up the sealant when it needed it.
Before I got the Stans wheels, I ran a ghetto setup using a 20" cut down innertube, and again, that worked well, I was certainly surprised when I came to change tyres the amount of thorns in it that would have caused punctures if I had had tubes.
Before I got the Stans wheels, I ran a ghetto setup using a 20" cut down innertube, and again, that worked well, I was certainly surprised when I came to change tyres the amount of thorns in it that would have caused punctures if I had had tubes.
I'm running hope hoops with crests. Stans sealant, yellow tape and valve. Tyres are normal (not ust/lust) maxxis high roller and advantage.
Main reason I changed was to prevent punctures which have been a regular occurance and so far - 2 months and counting - they have been perfect. They lose maybe 5 psi over a couple of weeks which is no problem.
I may be wrong but it sounds like P-Jay ^^^^ is running a UST setup without sealant in which case yes you can still puncture in the normal way. UST is easier to inflate than stans/ghetto and can be used without sealant but I personally wouldn't run tubeless this way.
Main reason I changed was to prevent punctures which have been a regular occurance and so far - 2 months and counting - they have been perfect. They lose maybe 5 psi over a couple of weeks which is no problem.
I may be wrong but it sounds like P-Jay ^^^^ is running a UST setup without sealant in which case yes you can still puncture in the normal way. UST is easier to inflate than stans/ghetto and can be used without sealant but I personally wouldn't run tubeless this way.
I'm running Mavic Crossmax UST wheels with Stans sealant in the tyres on an XC bike.
They do work - I have had a few thorns and nails and kept riding. The only problem was a four inch nail that ended up inside the tyre which made a hole too big to seal properly (it still got me home but never held air well afterwards).
Cons
You have to top up the sealant from time to time
They are an absolute pain to seat the tyres again unless you have a compressor
I always carry a tube and inflater as the reality is 3mm is probably the maximum that would seal but ive never had to use them.
They do work - I have had a few thorns and nails and kept riding. The only problem was a four inch nail that ended up inside the tyre which made a hole too big to seal properly (it still got me home but never held air well afterwards).
Cons
You have to top up the sealant from time to time
They are an absolute pain to seat the tyres again unless you have a compressor
I always carry a tube and inflater as the reality is 3mm is probably the maximum that would seal but ive never had to use them.
Edited by Oscar the Grouch on Friday 13th April 08:26
Over 5 years tubeless and not once have I ever felt the need to go back to using tubes. I started off with Mavic 823 & 819 UST rims then moved on to Stans Flows which I have on both my bikes (a Ragley Blue Pig and Nicolai Helius FR). For me the benefit of tubeless was noticeable from day one……the 823 wheelset was over 1lb lighter than my previous Mavic freeride/DH set up which used heavy duty tubes, and the 819’s and Flows were lighter still. Pinch flats were reduced to almost zero which is always a good thing, but more importantly I could run much lower pressures front and rear which improved outright grip, which in turn means I can ride faster through the techy stuff. The days of having to run 30+psi in my tyres to avoid pinch flats has long gone. I’m even able to run light-ish non-UST tyres at low pressures on the Flows without getting pinch flats on the big hill rides that are notorious for them . I still carry a tube when I ride, sometimes two, but that’s because it’s much easier to throw in a tube if I do get a flat, then I can sort out the tyre when I get home. In most cases fixing a tubeless tyres is pretty easy and in over 5 years I can only think of two tyres that I wasn’t able to repair.
For me tubeless is up there with disc brakes, suspension forks and uppy / downy seatposts as products that have changed my riding for the better.
For me tubeless is up there with disc brakes, suspension forks and uppy / downy seatposts as products that have changed my riding for the better.
.Adam. said:
Vastly reduced chance of punctures seems to be one of the main reasons mentioned above.
Vastly is a bit strong, I know I must sound like a proper ranter on this, but it one aspect of modern Mountain Biking that really gets me going, I had it thrust on me - sort of, as it was something that came with a bike.I concede, that if you run the type of tubeless system that has sealant it does have some 'healing' properties, but of course you can get slime filled tubes that will do that, but most people don't run them because they don't feel they work all that well. Make of that what you will. On the drawback side, if you run UST and you get a flat, you've got two choices, stick a tube in, or go through sort of faf in the link above. If you flat with sealant you're screwed.
What gets my piss hot is listening to people bang on about how much lighter there wheels have become, how much quicker they roll because the tyres are softer, much much better their bike handles.... it's all a placebo.
Tubeless set-ups aren't by definition lighter, you remove a tube yes, but you're adding a lot of stuff to replace it. So there's no 'spinning up faster' no 'greater flickability'.
Softer tyres don't roll faster, simply not true, once, about a million years ago Conti put out a release which basically said that running tyres super, super hard actually (in off road conditions) roll slower, because they bounced off everything, rather than rolling with the punches, but the gist of it was nothing like 'the softer the faster' but an urban myth was born, a bit like how the oily packing grease that chains come stuck to them is the greatest lube in the world.
As for pinch flats, frankly if you're trail riding, or doing anything that doesn't involve big drops or square edge impacts, if you're running low enough to pinch, it will handle like a sofa in the corners with the tyres squirming everywhere. Also if you do this with UST tyres the bead will 'burp' and you'll lose pressure.
It puts me in mind of super-wide bars and super-short stems, they work for some, especially flat-out-pinner pros, but they've become 'must haves' for everyone and in most cases it's counter productive.
.Adam. said:
Genuine question, not trying to be argumentative, but can you not put sealant in a UST setup? I've got a mate who has just got a new bike with UST, and I assumed that the tyres would have sealant in them, but I guess this isn't the case.
I run 823's with UST tyres on my DH bike without sealant.The front is perfect, but the rear does lose pressure over a week, so I just pump it up before riding at the weekend...
Didn't get a puncture last year, so figure I don't need the extra weight / mess of sealant
I completely disagree with P-Jay on this. I've run 'tubeless' tyres for four + years now, and think it's one of the cheaper and better upgrades to a mountain bike, not for the ability to run lower pressure, but because the sealant helps prevent punctures ruining your rides.
In that time I've used UST rims/tyres, normal tyres on UST rims, and normal tyres on normal rims. Would I ride without sealant, no, but then again, I didn't find the extra price (and weight) of UST tyres worth it over normal ones where the sealant fills any porous sidewalls. I've tried ghetto tubeless - it works well, and even now I don't bother with expensive rim strips, I use insulating tape. So yes, some of the solutions are pure marketing rubbish, and you pay a premium for it, but tyres and sealant is a good way to go.
There is always a chance of a puncture when riding, the sealant in tubeless tyres works, as probably anyone who has used this method will agree. Yes, big holes cannot be fixed, but they can't in a normal tyre and tube combo either, so the argument about having to carry a tube is rubbish. And getting a tube into a tyre with sealant in it is no big deal, although it is a little messier than normal.
In that time I've used UST rims/tyres, normal tyres on UST rims, and normal tyres on normal rims. Would I ride without sealant, no, but then again, I didn't find the extra price (and weight) of UST tyres worth it over normal ones where the sealant fills any porous sidewalls. I've tried ghetto tubeless - it works well, and even now I don't bother with expensive rim strips, I use insulating tape. So yes, some of the solutions are pure marketing rubbish, and you pay a premium for it, but tyres and sealant is a good way to go.
There is always a chance of a puncture when riding, the sealant in tubeless tyres works, as probably anyone who has used this method will agree. Yes, big holes cannot be fixed, but they can't in a normal tyre and tube combo either, so the argument about having to carry a tube is rubbish. And getting a tube into a tyre with sealant in it is no big deal, although it is a little messier than normal.
Easton UST rims + UST Nobby Nics, no issues so far. I don't ride where there a lot of thorns much, so generally i don't bother with sealant. About every 3 or 4 weeks i might have to put 5psi into one tyre or another, hardly a big hardship. I run about 25psi in either end for traction/floation on the sandy terrain i ride mostly.
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