Rattling from engine - help please!
Discussion
Hi Peeps,
I noticed a strange noise coming from my engine this evening as i pulled onto the drive. Never happened before, no apparent loss of power but noticeable at idle and under way.
It sounds like a bag of spanners, my initial thought was spark plug / ignition related but all seems to be connected ok and nothing loose.
Anyone had something similar?
Its main 55,000 mile service(inspection 2) is coming up in 800 miles and booked in to be done. And MOT due this Saturday. I've got meetings tomorrow but a bit scared to drive it now in case i break down or it is causing damange. Should i call the RAC - im on home start?
no lights on dash. I put 20 litres of V-power in before starting my normal 16 mile journey home from work.
any advise or info is appreciated, apologies for the sporadic nature of the description.
Cheers
I noticed a strange noise coming from my engine this evening as i pulled onto the drive. Never happened before, no apparent loss of power but noticeable at idle and under way.
It sounds like a bag of spanners, my initial thought was spark plug / ignition related but all seems to be connected ok and nothing loose.
Anyone had something similar?
Its main 55,000 mile service(inspection 2) is coming up in 800 miles and booked in to be done. And MOT due this Saturday. I've got meetings tomorrow but a bit scared to drive it now in case i break down or it is causing damange. Should i call the RAC - im on home start?
no lights on dash. I put 20 litres of V-power in before starting my normal 16 mile journey home from work.
any advise or info is appreciated, apologies for the sporadic nature of the description.
Cheers
its 55 plate, got the RAC out to check it over and it turned out there was about 2 lites of oil in it instead of 4.5. I checked it about 2-3 months ago i guess, prob done about 4000 miles in that time.
The sound was more tappety. Anyway, he topped up but the nooise still hasn't gone. He said it sounds like the oil is not getting to the top half of the engine.
Its strange because 15 miles earlier when i started it up to leave work, it sounded fine, then when i get home sounds crap. And no warning light. Taken the day off to try and sort out. RAC man advised not to drive it in case it ceases.
Im very worried this has done permenant damage to my engine and may result in re-build.
Hope its not the death rattle.
The sound was more tappety. Anyway, he topped up but the nooise still hasn't gone. He said it sounds like the oil is not getting to the top half of the engine.
Its strange because 15 miles earlier when i started it up to leave work, it sounded fine, then when i get home sounds crap. And no warning light. Taken the day off to try and sort out. RAC man advised not to drive it in case it ceases.
Im very worried this has done permenant damage to my engine and may result in re-build.
Hope its not the death rattle.
update, Mini garage reckon it could be the timing chain tensioner causing the rattle as the noise dissapears when reved.
Seems common on youtube. Not sure how much i'm looking at but its getting towed today. Service and MOT also due so gonna get them to do the lot, officially skint...........
Will let you know how it goes, tar for your thoughts to date.
Seems common on youtube. Not sure how much i'm looking at but its getting towed today. Service and MOT also due so gonna get them to do the lot, officially skint...........
Will let you know how it goes, tar for your thoughts to date.
Defcon5 said:
They have a name for this rattle. The death rattle. Youtube it and see if its the same noise
This only applies to the later r56, i think the op owns an r53, said supercharged on his profile. I havent read anything about the death rattle effecting the first gen minis.Having no oil in the car wont help matters either..... Not sure exactly, but there could be some internal damage or blockage which is causing the oil not to get into the upper part of the engine. ( this could be a result of running low oil over a period of time) A complete oil and filter change 'may' just help matters....
Edited by mike9009 on Thursday 12th April 21:54
probably ragged around and the oil is not checked very often, some of will have gone through the breather pipes, then some through the sump gasket, a little through the main seal and maybe some through the engine internals.
Some drink and other sip depends how they are driven, more and more of the abused minis are getting head gasket failures
Some drink and other sip depends how they are driven, more and more of the abused minis are getting head gasket failures
I check oil every 2-3 months, will start doing it more now. I've done alot of research and it sounds very similar to the tming chain tensioner rattle. Car has not been ragged be me - always let it warm up thoroughly and never go above 2500 - 3000 rpm until it is.
ive had the car for 2 years and in the 30,000 miles ive done its used half to 1litre of oil every 15k miles - normally at the half way point between services. in my view that is sipping not dinking.
I don't think the noise is oil related. If it is, i'm def gonna need a new oil pump, i'm hoping because i stopped as soon as i heard the noise that damage is to a minimum.
ive had the car for 2 years and in the 30,000 miles ive done its used half to 1litre of oil every 15k miles - normally at the half way point between services. in my view that is sipping not dinking.
I don't think the noise is oil related. If it is, i'm def gonna need a new oil pump, i'm hoping because i stopped as soon as i heard the noise that damage is to a minimum.
So by way of an update for those who are interested:
Mini have had the car and said there was little to no coolant in it
and they suspect its developed a coolant leak somewhere. They then carried out some sort of gas chemical test on the engine and becuse the liquid didn't change colour they beleive the cyclinder head and gasket could be ok, but no gaurantees.
First step is to replace the water pump at a cost of £550 fitted, nice. Then flush it all through, top up fluids and service the car (was due one anyway). If it still makes the noise i'm basically fu*ked IMO.
Step 2 would be to take the head off to see if anything is seized...and then who knows what else after that.
I wouldn't of known if there was a coolant leak because unless you have the chrono pack (have sat nav, rev and speed) - there is no temp guage. I'm informed there is no warning light for loss of coolant - is this correct? Also if my oil was half full why didn't the warning light come on?
So some of the questions that are currebtly going through my head are:
1.If new water pump doesnt sort it, what else could be required?
2. Am i flogging a dead horse?
3. Once fixed should i sell, or keep and get my money's worth.
MOT expires tomorrow also so thats got to be done yet. To top it off they say their courtesy cars are booked up for the next 3 weeks! Good job i've got the OH's 107 to float about in.
As days goes, this is up there with being one of the most shi*e ones i've had in a long time.
Off to have some beers........
Mini have had the car and said there was little to no coolant in it
and they suspect its developed a coolant leak somewhere. They then carried out some sort of gas chemical test on the engine and becuse the liquid didn't change colour they beleive the cyclinder head and gasket could be ok, but no gaurantees.First step is to replace the water pump at a cost of £550 fitted, nice. Then flush it all through, top up fluids and service the car (was due one anyway). If it still makes the noise i'm basically fu*ked IMO.
Step 2 would be to take the head off to see if anything is seized...and then who knows what else after that.
I wouldn't of known if there was a coolant leak because unless you have the chrono pack (have sat nav, rev and speed) - there is no temp guage. I'm informed there is no warning light for loss of coolant - is this correct? Also if my oil was half full why didn't the warning light come on?
So some of the questions that are currebtly going through my head are:
1.If new water pump doesnt sort it, what else could be required?
2. Am i flogging a dead horse?
3. Once fixed should i sell, or keep and get my money's worth.
MOT expires tomorrow also so thats got to be done yet. To top it off they say their courtesy cars are booked up for the next 3 weeks! Good job i've got the OH's 107 to float about in.
As days goes, this is up there with being one of the most shi*e ones i've had in a long time.
Off to have some beers........
I haven't heard of water pumps rattling before? Unless they are completely knackered. I suspect it was still pumping as otherwise your temp gauge would be off the scale.
I reckon the dealer may well replace the water pump because they suspect that is where the water leak is and why the coolant level is low. I don't think this will solve the rattling noise in itself.
The dealer sounds as though they maybe trying to sort a number of issues. You need to sit with the service manager and get to the bottom of what they are planning in it entirity. Ask them to explain why the water pump is being replaced?
Driving a car with sympathy from cold is commendable, but not checking fluids in three months is potentially asking for problems. (Sorry to preach
) I try to check at least every two weeks (during my car washing time) Must check my tyre pressures more often though.....
I would dread being in a similar position - It may turn out a water pump and oil service will solve the problems. At least head gasket looks okay!
Best of luck.....
Mike
I reckon the dealer may well replace the water pump because they suspect that is where the water leak is and why the coolant level is low. I don't think this will solve the rattling noise in itself.
The dealer sounds as though they maybe trying to sort a number of issues. You need to sit with the service manager and get to the bottom of what they are planning in it entirity. Ask them to explain why the water pump is being replaced?
Driving a car with sympathy from cold is commendable, but not checking fluids in three months is potentially asking for problems. (Sorry to preach
) I try to check at least every two weeks (during my car washing time) Must check my tyre pressures more often though.....I would dread being in a similar position - It may turn out a water pump and oil service will solve the problems. At least head gasket looks okay!
Best of luck.....
Mike
mike9009 said:
Driving a car with sympathy from cold is commendable, but not checking fluids in three months is potentially asking for problems. (Sorry to preach ) I try to check at least every two weeks (during my car washing time) Must check my tyre pressures more often though.....
Mike
its a fair point about not checking the levels mnore frequently and not relying on warning lights. I am normally very maticulous about looking after my cars with no expense spared but i didn't spot any warning signs. No change in driving style, the cooling fan wasn't constantly on etc, no obvious leaks on drive or at work etc. ) I try to check at least every two weeks (during my car washing time) Must check my tyre pressures more often though.....Mike
I will ask what the rattling is and why the loss of coolant/leak which they seem to be diagnosing as the main problem is connected to this noise.
Warning to everyone, check your levels regularly!!
Fingers crossed, will update further early next week.
subject to it passing the MOT tomorrow, i'm told by the mini stealer that its ready for collection. They have replaced the water pump (£550 fitted - 3hr job) to cure what they thought was a coolant leak, and noticed the plastic timing chain tensioner had cracked but not disintergrated and i quote:
'we have replaced this and not charged you the labour, just the part which is £25'
I should think so seeing as the front bumber was off and everything acessible.
The rattling was a combination of the tensioner and lack of coolant. aparently when the coolant is low, the engine draws on more oil as a substitute.
I asked why no water temp or oil light came on and they said the cars are designed to run on minimal coolant and oil levels and that it probably hadn't reached critical level for them to come on - good job i noticed the tappety noise then!! Anyway, he just wants to try it from cold tomorrow, take it for a drive and then all being well, MOT it. They flushed through the coolant system and gave it full service and its apparently sounds as it should.
Panic over, leson learned the hard way, just thankful there appears no further damage. Will be checking he levels on a weekly basis now instead of every 3 months. My previous car was a golf gt tdi and it never needed anything when i checked it but guess thats difference between deisel an performance petrol engine.
Hopefully this saga has proven useful to other MCS owners.
All the best.
'we have replaced this and not charged you the labour, just the part which is £25'
I should think so seeing as the front bumber was off and everything acessible.
The rattling was a combination of the tensioner and lack of coolant. aparently when the coolant is low, the engine draws on more oil as a substitute.
I asked why no water temp or oil light came on and they said the cars are designed to run on minimal coolant and oil levels and that it probably hadn't reached critical level for them to come on - good job i noticed the tappety noise then!! Anyway, he just wants to try it from cold tomorrow, take it for a drive and then all being well, MOT it. They flushed through the coolant system and gave it full service and its apparently sounds as it should.
Panic over, leson learned the hard way, just thankful there appears no further damage. Will be checking he levels on a weekly basis now instead of every 3 months. My previous car was a golf gt tdi and it never needed anything when i checked it but guess thats difference between deisel an performance petrol engine.
Hopefully this saga has proven useful to other MCS owners.
All the best.
2007- MINI's having major issues with Tensioner and Timing Chain.
Despite receiving this letter, our dealer chooses to hide behind warranty claims and not cover any costs to rectify the issue!
For all those with similar issues it is time to voice our dissatisfaction publicy!
Mr. Cameron Begg
Mini Service Department
6 Shield Drive
West Cross Industrial Estate
TW8 9EX
Ref : Tensioner + Timing Chain Date: 10 November 2012
Dear Mr. Cameron Begg,
This letter is concerning motor vehicle 2008 R56 Mini Cooper S 1.6 – xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which recently came into your service department for repair for the tensioner and timing chain issue.
As you may recall, Berry Chiswick refused to absorb the costs to rectify the factory defect tensioner and timing chain, despite the issue being an internationally known design flaw by the manufacturer.
Vehicle Provenance:
The respective motor vehicle was purchased brand new from official MINI-BMW agent xxxx xxxx xxxx.
Aside from what was listed on the official bill of sale, the only other accessory received was a leather pouch that contained a ‘service booklet’, ‘ipod interface’, ‘owner’s handbook’, ‘contact Europe’.
Vehicle Condition:
The motor vehicle is still in pristine condition. It is kept in a gated driveway enclosed garage maintained by a full time professional chauffeur.
The odometer reads 13,024 miles as of 10/11/2012 equating to an average 3256 miles per year.
To this day the motor vehicle has never had any other owners and is still in its original factory configuration.
Vehicle Service History:
Since acquiring the motor vehicle in xxxx 2008, the MINI CBS (conditions based system) has only specified two alerts ‘Rear Brakes’ 03/02/10 and ‘Service’ 02/10/12.
NOTE I: All CBS recommendations have been carried on time, correctly and are listed in the vehicles service log book (a copy of which Berry Chiswick already has).
NOTE II: No guidance can be found in the ‘service booklet’, ‘ipod interface’, ‘owners handbook’, ‘contact Europe’ to suggest that the car should be serviced over and above the CBS recommendations.
Therefore, to date motor vehicle xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx has been maintained properly in accordance with the CBS and literature supplied by MINI.
Vehicle (relevant) Timeline:
On 11/05/2009, noises started to be heard from behind the steering column/windscreen. No CBS (conditions based system) warning light ever came on. Nevertheless, the vehicle was sent to Berry Chiswick for repair. The problem was not solved.
On 01/02/2012, the noises started to roughen and become more audible. No CBS light ever came on. Nevertheless, the vehicle was sent to Berry Chiswick for repair. The vehicle was checked, nothing was done therefore the problem was not resolved.
On 26/9/2012, the very same noises started to become even more audible. No CBS warning light came on. The decision was taken to have the motor vehicle independently diagnosed. The mechanics came to the conclusion that both the tensioner and timing chain would have to be replaced. They did not carry out the work as it was determined to be a known manufacturers fault and therefore should be the sole responsibility of the manufacturer to rectify such issues (see independent diagnosis below).
On 29/10/2012, the same noises started to become even louder. No CBS warning light ever came on. The decision was taken to once again send the motor vehicle back to Berry Chiswick. At this point, Berry Chiswick finally acknowledged that the noise issue was directly related to a known factory fault with the tensioner and timing chain. As the motor vehicle was now out of the manufactured warranty, Berry Chiswick informed me that the cost to rectify the issue would be 1200GBP.
Vehicle Diagnosis Tensioner + Timing Chain:
On 26/9/2012 approved AA technicians made the following diagnosis:
Upon ignition we immediately noticed a rough engine sound as well as a light clinking metal noise.
As with all vehicles we first go through our check list before making definitive conclusion and recommendations.
In this case we would examine anything which might account for the unusual noises e.g. tuning modifications/unapproved use of parts, lack of respective fluids/incorrect fluids, obstructions/debris in the engine bay, etc.
Following our process of elimination we uncovered that the rough engine and light clinking metal noise was directly related to the type of tensioner used in this model of vehicle.
Specifically the OEM tensioner for the R56 2007- MINI fails to extend as it should. Due to this the piston is not able to adequately pick up the excess slack from the timing chain and the timing chain is brushing up against the guides on the engine cover.
An acceptable tolerance for chain deviation is anywhere from 0.1-0.5mm which is measured against two separate points.
In this particular instance as both set points were at 0.9mm and 1.0mm respectively and there was friction, we would urgently advise that both the tensioner and timing chain be replaced and re tested.
Vehicle (general) Berry Chiswick History:
Since the original acquisition of xx/xx/2008, this vehicle has been nothing but an inconvenience and has fallen far short of BMW/MINI standards. Consequently, to date it has been sent seven times to Berry Chiswick to try and rectify the following faults/issues:
Hydraulics
R56 S Turbo water pump – Ref: M11.53.7.630.368
R56 Hose Clamp Ref: - Ref: M11.53.7.546.422
Rocker Cover Gasket leaking
Coolant Pump replacement - Ref: G0060084
Transmission
Gearbox Fault (unsolved under warranty)
Intermittent Gearbox and Gearbox warning light flashing
Vehicle Jerking when pulling away (unsolved under warranty)
Interior
Noises coming from behind steering column (unsolved under warranty)
Creaking noise of plastic trim panel
Sunroof not opening and closing
Sunroof whilst close making creaking noises whilst driving
Passenger window making noise when ascending/descending (unsolved under warranty)
Instability whilst accelerating or braking hard (unsolved under warranty)
Right front wheel trim coming lose
Engine
Electrical System into noise from engine Ref: AM1101_00063
Tensioner, timing chain, sprockets and guide all to be replaced Ref: D110_MX000000_06_300
Noise from Engine present requires diagnosis
Engine over revving at stand still - without any application to the pedals (unsolved under warranty)
Exterior
Paint Quality Issues, irregular patches (unsolved under warranty)
Recapitulation:
At the time I purchased a brand new top of the range MINI Cooper S petrol turbo engine with almost every available options = 31,770GBP.
Since day one the motor vehicle has been maintained in accordance with the CBS and MINI literature that came with the vehicle.
Both the AA independent mechanics and Berry Chiswick Mini have confirmed that the problem is directly due to a factory design defect with the tensioner and timing chain.
Considering the amount of money spent on a small city car against the number of visits to rectify factory faults, I am an extremely unsatisfied Mini customer.
Currently, my 2008 R56 petrol MINI Cooper S with only 13,049 miles sounds more courser than a diesel truck from the early 1990’s.
Moreover, the manner in which Berry Chiswick has dealt with the tensioner timing chain issue has been completely unsatisfactory.
My vehicle was brought in twice and Berry Chiswick failed to diagnose the problem.
I was then forced to send it to an independent mechanic who correctly diagnosed the issue.
I then had to return the vehicle for the third time to Berry Chiswick to re-confirm that the fault was due to the manufacturer’s tensioner and timing chain.
Upon confirmation of the factory defect, Berry Chiswick attempted to extract 1200gbp from myself to rectify the issue.
It is astounding that even when a client on their own accord discovers the defect, MINI/Berry Chiswick refuses to absorb the costs to urgently rectify the fault by the manufacturer.
After having done some research, it has become apparent that your dealership has had prior complaints from other customers concerning this very issue and that the manufacturer has referenced this particular issue as PUMA Ref-10686850-16 part number Ref-11.31.7.598.956.
I have been advised that the issue concerning the tensioner and timing chain is one that is likely progressive. Should it not be regulated, eventually the timing chain will become loose/detach causing serious damage to the engine and possibly the occupants.
What is most disturbing is that Berry Chiswick is not informing their clients that their motor vehicles have a factory defect which can pose a serious risk to occupant’s safety!
Conclusion:
In the past I have owned twelve BMW vehicles - having done business with BMW Herb Chambers, BMW Inskip, BMW Warwick, BMW Calabasas, BMW Holland Park, BMW GAAM Cannes, Rolls Royce Milan, BMW PBM France and BMW PML Singapore). Moreover, my immediate family currently own a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost, 2010 BMW X5, 2007 BMW 530I and 2008 Mini Cooper S).
Should MINI/Berry Chiswick not wish to work on principles, loyalty or morals, then Under the 1994 UK Sale and Supply of Goods Act - Section 14(2) Quality: A manufacturer can only expect to sell goods and services if they are ‘of a satisfactory quality’, ‘fit for all the purposes for which the goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied’, ‘freedom from minor defects’, ‘safety’ and ‘durability’, ‘of a standard that would reasonably be expected taking into consideration the price paid and description.’
In this case there is ample evidence to prove that the manufacturers goods fail all ‘safety’ and ‘durability’ tests and therefore are not ‘fit for all the purposes’, nor ‘free from minor defects’.
Under UK commercial law even if the warranty has expired, it is the legal responsibility of the manufacturer to rectify such issues at no cost to the consumer.
Consequently, MINI/Berry Chiswick will arrange to have my vehicle collected from my residence, and due to the nature of the problem supply a new tensioner, new timing chain, new chain guides, new cam sprockets, new VANOS unit, and labor.
The respective work will be completed under the manufacturer’s warranty and the vehicle will be returned to my residence.
Should I not receive a fully satisfactory written response to this letter prior to Nov 25, 2012, I will:
1) Instruct my family lawyers to launch legal proceedings against both the manufacturer and service agent for having failed to meet the legislation under the 1994 UK Sale and Supply of Goods Act - Section 14(2) Quality.
2) Forward a complete copy of this very letter to all MINI forums, car journalists worldwide to make consumers aware of how MINI/Berry Chiswick is hiding behind warranty claims and deliberately failing to notify their clients of the dangers associated with the tensioner and timing chain.
The negative publicity will sure cost the manufacturer and its brand image far in excess of the 1200GBP which MINI/Berry Chiswick attempted to extract from me.
Regards,
JV
Despite receiving this letter, our dealer chooses to hide behind warranty claims and not cover any costs to rectify the issue!
For all those with similar issues it is time to voice our dissatisfaction publicy!
Mr. Cameron Begg
Mini Service Department
6 Shield Drive
West Cross Industrial Estate
TW8 9EX
Ref : Tensioner + Timing Chain Date: 10 November 2012
Dear Mr. Cameron Begg,
This letter is concerning motor vehicle 2008 R56 Mini Cooper S 1.6 – xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx which recently came into your service department for repair for the tensioner and timing chain issue.
As you may recall, Berry Chiswick refused to absorb the costs to rectify the factory defect tensioner and timing chain, despite the issue being an internationally known design flaw by the manufacturer.
Vehicle Provenance:
The respective motor vehicle was purchased brand new from official MINI-BMW agent xxxx xxxx xxxx.
Aside from what was listed on the official bill of sale, the only other accessory received was a leather pouch that contained a ‘service booklet’, ‘ipod interface’, ‘owner’s handbook’, ‘contact Europe’.
Vehicle Condition:
The motor vehicle is still in pristine condition. It is kept in a gated driveway enclosed garage maintained by a full time professional chauffeur.
The odometer reads 13,024 miles as of 10/11/2012 equating to an average 3256 miles per year.
To this day the motor vehicle has never had any other owners and is still in its original factory configuration.
Vehicle Service History:
Since acquiring the motor vehicle in xxxx 2008, the MINI CBS (conditions based system) has only specified two alerts ‘Rear Brakes’ 03/02/10 and ‘Service’ 02/10/12.
NOTE I: All CBS recommendations have been carried on time, correctly and are listed in the vehicles service log book (a copy of which Berry Chiswick already has).
NOTE II: No guidance can be found in the ‘service booklet’, ‘ipod interface’, ‘owners handbook’, ‘contact Europe’ to suggest that the car should be serviced over and above the CBS recommendations.
Therefore, to date motor vehicle xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx has been maintained properly in accordance with the CBS and literature supplied by MINI.
Vehicle (relevant) Timeline:
On 11/05/2009, noises started to be heard from behind the steering column/windscreen. No CBS (conditions based system) warning light ever came on. Nevertheless, the vehicle was sent to Berry Chiswick for repair. The problem was not solved.
On 01/02/2012, the noises started to roughen and become more audible. No CBS light ever came on. Nevertheless, the vehicle was sent to Berry Chiswick for repair. The vehicle was checked, nothing was done therefore the problem was not resolved.
On 26/9/2012, the very same noises started to become even more audible. No CBS warning light came on. The decision was taken to have the motor vehicle independently diagnosed. The mechanics came to the conclusion that both the tensioner and timing chain would have to be replaced. They did not carry out the work as it was determined to be a known manufacturers fault and therefore should be the sole responsibility of the manufacturer to rectify such issues (see independent diagnosis below).
On 29/10/2012, the same noises started to become even louder. No CBS warning light ever came on. The decision was taken to once again send the motor vehicle back to Berry Chiswick. At this point, Berry Chiswick finally acknowledged that the noise issue was directly related to a known factory fault with the tensioner and timing chain. As the motor vehicle was now out of the manufactured warranty, Berry Chiswick informed me that the cost to rectify the issue would be 1200GBP.
Vehicle Diagnosis Tensioner + Timing Chain:
On 26/9/2012 approved AA technicians made the following diagnosis:
Upon ignition we immediately noticed a rough engine sound as well as a light clinking metal noise.
As with all vehicles we first go through our check list before making definitive conclusion and recommendations.
In this case we would examine anything which might account for the unusual noises e.g. tuning modifications/unapproved use of parts, lack of respective fluids/incorrect fluids, obstructions/debris in the engine bay, etc.
Following our process of elimination we uncovered that the rough engine and light clinking metal noise was directly related to the type of tensioner used in this model of vehicle.
Specifically the OEM tensioner for the R56 2007- MINI fails to extend as it should. Due to this the piston is not able to adequately pick up the excess slack from the timing chain and the timing chain is brushing up against the guides on the engine cover.
An acceptable tolerance for chain deviation is anywhere from 0.1-0.5mm which is measured against two separate points.
In this particular instance as both set points were at 0.9mm and 1.0mm respectively and there was friction, we would urgently advise that both the tensioner and timing chain be replaced and re tested.
Vehicle (general) Berry Chiswick History:
Since the original acquisition of xx/xx/2008, this vehicle has been nothing but an inconvenience and has fallen far short of BMW/MINI standards. Consequently, to date it has been sent seven times to Berry Chiswick to try and rectify the following faults/issues:
Hydraulics
R56 S Turbo water pump – Ref: M11.53.7.630.368
R56 Hose Clamp Ref: - Ref: M11.53.7.546.422
Rocker Cover Gasket leaking
Coolant Pump replacement - Ref: G0060084
Transmission
Gearbox Fault (unsolved under warranty)
Intermittent Gearbox and Gearbox warning light flashing
Vehicle Jerking when pulling away (unsolved under warranty)
Interior
Noises coming from behind steering column (unsolved under warranty)
Creaking noise of plastic trim panel
Sunroof not opening and closing
Sunroof whilst close making creaking noises whilst driving
Passenger window making noise when ascending/descending (unsolved under warranty)
Instability whilst accelerating or braking hard (unsolved under warranty)
Right front wheel trim coming lose
Engine
Electrical System into noise from engine Ref: AM1101_00063
Tensioner, timing chain, sprockets and guide all to be replaced Ref: D110_MX000000_06_300
Noise from Engine present requires diagnosis
Engine over revving at stand still - without any application to the pedals (unsolved under warranty)
Exterior
Paint Quality Issues, irregular patches (unsolved under warranty)
Recapitulation:
At the time I purchased a brand new top of the range MINI Cooper S petrol turbo engine with almost every available options = 31,770GBP.
Since day one the motor vehicle has been maintained in accordance with the CBS and MINI literature that came with the vehicle.
Both the AA independent mechanics and Berry Chiswick Mini have confirmed that the problem is directly due to a factory design defect with the tensioner and timing chain.
Considering the amount of money spent on a small city car against the number of visits to rectify factory faults, I am an extremely unsatisfied Mini customer.
Currently, my 2008 R56 petrol MINI Cooper S with only 13,049 miles sounds more courser than a diesel truck from the early 1990’s.
Moreover, the manner in which Berry Chiswick has dealt with the tensioner timing chain issue has been completely unsatisfactory.
My vehicle was brought in twice and Berry Chiswick failed to diagnose the problem.
I was then forced to send it to an independent mechanic who correctly diagnosed the issue.
I then had to return the vehicle for the third time to Berry Chiswick to re-confirm that the fault was due to the manufacturer’s tensioner and timing chain.
Upon confirmation of the factory defect, Berry Chiswick attempted to extract 1200gbp from myself to rectify the issue.
It is astounding that even when a client on their own accord discovers the defect, MINI/Berry Chiswick refuses to absorb the costs to urgently rectify the fault by the manufacturer.
After having done some research, it has become apparent that your dealership has had prior complaints from other customers concerning this very issue and that the manufacturer has referenced this particular issue as PUMA Ref-10686850-16 part number Ref-11.31.7.598.956.
I have been advised that the issue concerning the tensioner and timing chain is one that is likely progressive. Should it not be regulated, eventually the timing chain will become loose/detach causing serious damage to the engine and possibly the occupants.
What is most disturbing is that Berry Chiswick is not informing their clients that their motor vehicles have a factory defect which can pose a serious risk to occupant’s safety!
Conclusion:
In the past I have owned twelve BMW vehicles - having done business with BMW Herb Chambers, BMW Inskip, BMW Warwick, BMW Calabasas, BMW Holland Park, BMW GAAM Cannes, Rolls Royce Milan, BMW PBM France and BMW PML Singapore). Moreover, my immediate family currently own a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost, 2010 BMW X5, 2007 BMW 530I and 2008 Mini Cooper S).
Should MINI/Berry Chiswick not wish to work on principles, loyalty or morals, then Under the 1994 UK Sale and Supply of Goods Act - Section 14(2) Quality: A manufacturer can only expect to sell goods and services if they are ‘of a satisfactory quality’, ‘fit for all the purposes for which the goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied’, ‘freedom from minor defects’, ‘safety’ and ‘durability’, ‘of a standard that would reasonably be expected taking into consideration the price paid and description.’
In this case there is ample evidence to prove that the manufacturers goods fail all ‘safety’ and ‘durability’ tests and therefore are not ‘fit for all the purposes’, nor ‘free from minor defects’.
Under UK commercial law even if the warranty has expired, it is the legal responsibility of the manufacturer to rectify such issues at no cost to the consumer.
Consequently, MINI/Berry Chiswick will arrange to have my vehicle collected from my residence, and due to the nature of the problem supply a new tensioner, new timing chain, new chain guides, new cam sprockets, new VANOS unit, and labor.
The respective work will be completed under the manufacturer’s warranty and the vehicle will be returned to my residence.
Should I not receive a fully satisfactory written response to this letter prior to Nov 25, 2012, I will:
1) Instruct my family lawyers to launch legal proceedings against both the manufacturer and service agent for having failed to meet the legislation under the 1994 UK Sale and Supply of Goods Act - Section 14(2) Quality.
2) Forward a complete copy of this very letter to all MINI forums, car journalists worldwide to make consumers aware of how MINI/Berry Chiswick is hiding behind warranty claims and deliberately failing to notify their clients of the dangers associated with the tensioner and timing chain.
The negative publicity will sure cost the manufacturer and its brand image far in excess of the 1200GBP which MINI/Berry Chiswick attempted to extract from me.
Regards,
JV
Judging by the amount of issues the car has had from new ( and ironically my boss has had loads of issues with his and was thinking of buying the car off our company for his wife when the time comes, but has completely shelved that idea) I dont know if mini is currently not making a decent car for what is almost Porsche money.
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