US Connecting Flights

[BigS]

I'm after some advice and tips with regards connecting flights in the US.

I'm considering a roadtrip taking in Yellowstone National Park and Monument Valley (and a few other places in between ) which looking at the map would seem to give me the option of either Las Vegas, Denver, Salt Lake City or Rapid City as starting points.

Whenever I've been to the States before I've flown direct, but the prices for Denver and Vegas (the only 2 of the 4 where there are direct flights) are way up so I've been looking at connecting flights which are a bit cheaper.

I've done a bit of looking about and from what I can gather I'd have to pass through immigration at the first port of call, which I know from previous experience can take a while, so how much time between flights would be considered a safe margin to allow time to clear immigration and get to the gate? Most of the flights that come up on skyscanner seem to be around the 2-3hr mark between flights.

I'm getting a number of different options of connecting airport to pass through for around the same price, are any of the airports better than others for passing through or are they all about the same especially for immigration queues?
One of the options I've seen is with Air Canada to either SLC or Denver, I forget which now, passing through Toronto where from what I can gather as a British Citizen I don't need a visa for Canada and you go through pre-clearance before boarding your flight to the US. Is this a good option as all my searches seem to turn up are some mixed reviews from a couple of years ago where some say it's great and others say that it's a nightmare as they don't have enough staff to cope.

Thanks
S

[miln0039]

BigS said:

I'm after some advice and tips with regards connecting flights in the US.

I'm considering a roadtrip taking in Yellowstone National Park and Monument Valley (and a few other places in between ) which looking at the map would seem to give me the option of either Las Vegas, Denver, Salt Lake City or Rapid City as starting points.

Whenever I've been to the States before I've flown direct, but the prices for Denver and Vegas (the only 2 of the 4 where there are direct flights) are way up so I've been looking at connecting flights which are a bit cheaper.

I've done a bit of looking about and from what I can gather I'd have to pass through immigration at the first port of call, which I know from previous experience can take a while, so how much time between flights would be considered a safe margin to allow time to clear immigration and get to the gate? Most of the flights that come up on skyscanner seem to be around the 2-3hr mark between flights.

I'm getting a number of different options of connecting airport to pass through for around the same price, are any of the airports better than others for passing through or are they all about the same especially for immigration queues?
One of the options I've seen is with Air Canada to either SLC or Denver, I forget which now, passing through Toronto where from what I can gather as a British Citizen I don't need a visa for Canada and you go through pre-clearance before boarding your flight to the US. Is this a good option as all my searches seem to turn up are some mixed reviews from a couple of years ago where some say it's great and others say that it's a nightmare as they don't have enough staff to cope.

Thanks
S

Afternoon! Firstly - great plan for a trip. I've explored most of the US but not been up to Yellowstone.

You are correct in that you will have to go through immigration at the first point of entry into the US. However, in spite of the horrendous reputation US immigration gets on PH, with a little planning and awareness it won't cause an issue. Thousands of "Visitors" manage it everyday without issue!

I typically allow 3 hours connection time - although at some airports I will allow this number to be closer to 2 if I know the airport well. This gives you a little moving space for late arrival of the flight and a longer than usual immigration process. The longest wait I've had was at Detroit and that was an hour when we arrived right behind the Hong Kong 747 (lots of calls for interpreters over the tanoy!). The rechecking of bags is VERY easy though and takes seconds.

Things to think about are:
- Any terminal change required?
- What other flights are arriving into the first airport in the hour before and hour after I am scheduled to arrive?
- Do I have preassigned seating on the plane? If so - can I make sure I am sat close to the front so I'm at the front of the line from my plane?

Which airports are you seeing itineraries through? Perhaps I can pass on my experiences if any will be helpful.

I've no experience of going through Canada and have only entered Canada once via land border and had quite a lot of processes to get through and forms to fill out. My only query would be - why would you want to go through two immigration processes rather than one? (in what will already be a VERY long day...)

Anything else I can help with - give me a try!

Cheers,
Alex

[ChrisBMW]

Good advice above, the only airport in the states that I have had a long wait in is Newark and it was around 1.5 hours.

Vegas was brillant, we were through in about 20 minutes.

[miln0039]

ChrisBMW said:

Good advice above, the only airport in the states that I have had a long wait in is Newark and it was around 1.5 hours.

Vegas was brillant, we were through in about 20 minutes.

You can't spend at the tables if you're in a queue....?

[BigS]

Thanks for the quick replies and the advice so far, especially the bit about getting a seat as close to the front as possible
I flew to LAX in 2010 with Air NZ and had to queue for about 1.5hrs for immigration and Tampa with BA last year where I had about an hour wait.

I've not been to that area before either but have fancied it for years, moreso after doing LA, Vegas, the Grand Canyon, Death Valley, Yosemite, San Francisco and the Pacific Coast Highway back to LA in 2010 and I would have loved to have included Zion NP, Bryce Canyon and Monument Valley at the time but that would have meant an extra week and I couldn't have that much time off work

The connecting airports coming up are JFK, Atlanta, Philadephia, Detroit seem to be the main ones but there are some passing through Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Washington Dulles and Houston as well.

[miln0039]

BigS said:

The connecting airports coming up are JFK, Atlanta, Philadephia, Detroit seem to be the main ones but there are some passing through Minneapolis, Cincinnati, Washington Dulles and Houston as well.

Right...I assume quite a few of these are Delta flights looking at the possible layovers!

JFK - If it is Delta then they have their own terminal there but it is very much work in progress. I got through quickly last time because I was in Business - about 10 minutes. If in economy on Delta I would avoid as there were very few officers on and it was a bit dingy!

Atlanta - Delta hub, so if you're flying Delta a decent bet as there will be a number of flights leaving here for your destination - so if there were delays you're more likely to be bumped to a flight later that day rather than the next...

Detroit - As previously stated, this was a good airport. Even though we arrived behind a HUGE amount of difficult to process traffic I was through in an hour. Lots of desks, modern facilities, also a Delta sub-hub so not a bad shout.

Minneapolis - One of my favourite airports in the World! Never waited more than 30 minutes - usually in the car park with bags 35-45 minutes after touching down. Again, lots of Delta flights through this airport and mostly old NorthWest airline routes - so you should be well served for your ongoing travel. RockBottom brewery is also in the airport - so if you do have a nice sized layover you won't be bored

The others... - I've never flown through! Houston just seems a long way out of the way to fly geographically speaking! Dulles / Philly could suffer from being busier as they're east coast locations...

[Puggit]

At least Miami isn't in that list.

<shudder>

[BigS]

Yes, mostly Delta.
The ones via Canada are Air Canada with Houston and Chicago bein United and Atlanta I think was KLM.
Oh and some are a mix of Delta and KLM but I think they're in the same airline alliance aren't they?

I think Houston is a bit out of the way too, there was one going via LAX but that seems even sillier to fly further west then head back east. So by the sounds of it then Minneapolis may be the best option then

Thanks again
S

[ViperDave]

miln0039 said:

snip - loads of good stuff

The others... - I've never flown through! Houston just seems a long way out of the way to fly geographically speaking! Dulles / Philly could suffer from being busier as they're east coast locations...

Last time we went through Houston it seemed pretty efficient, huge immigration hall, something worth considering here though is time of year and day as it can be affected by weather delays due to afternoon thunder storms. sat on the tarmac in TPA for and hour once due to this and made our connection purely due to our inbound parking next to our outbound flight. oh and yes for your final destination Houston can make it a bit tedious to go all the way south to then back track north and makes the trip to SLC a drain.

Personally we tend to err towards 3 hours or longer for US arrival connections, better to sit and grab a bite to eat than stress about missing the next flight.

As for Canada, allow a little more time (>3hr) for the additional formalities, getting into CA isn't hard but it is an extra process to go through. We haven't done Toronto but both Vancouver and Montreal had limited US immigration, it didn't cause us any problems but i imagine it could if there were a lot of you making the connection.

The other downside (based on a few years old experience) is that air Canada uses united for ground handling in the US and they didn't have access to AC's full computer system to handle any problems. and quite frankly united's attitude to AC customers with any problem was, well your not their customer so step away from the desk or i call the po-lice, nearly got stranded in HI at 11pm due to that. It may have changed since but i would try and find out if the operations at the airport your flying back from are by AC or united. Its cheap for a reason lol If you do go AC then avoid Montreal at all costs unless you speak french.

Random curve ball, for your presumed route you may also want to consider Calgary as am arrival airport to then drop down by road to Yellowstone. budget an hour for the boarder crossing south and $6 pp, about a minute for going north and no charge. add to that you don't have to deal with the TSA rummaging through your checked bags.

[ViperDave]

Don't forget Phoenix as a direct route(BA) option to start at the monument valley end.

Just out of interest how long are you going to take to do the loop from monument valley to Yellowstone, as its quite a long way with many sights to stop at, and are you including mount Rushmore as you mentioned rapid city as its a days drive from the eastern side of Yellowstone (cody) to rapid city.

[miln0039]

BigS said:

Yes, mostly Delta.
The ones via Canada are Air Canada with Houston and Chicago bein United and Atlanta I think was KLM.
Oh and some are a mix of Delta and KLM but I think they're in the same airline alliance aren't they?

I think Houston is a bit out of the way too, there was one going via LAX but that seems even sillier to fly further west then head back east. So by the sounds of it then Minneapolis may be the best option then

Thanks again
S

No worries. KLM and Delta are the same thing yes. If using Delta be wary to avoid them sticking you on a flight through Amsterdam! Lots of hassle connecting there because of the underpant bomber. And they're older/worse planes on that route a lot of the time!

[ViperDave]

miln0039 said:

No worries. KLM and Delta are the same thing yes. If using Delta be wary to avoid them sticking you on a flight through Amsterdam! Lots of hassle connecting there because of the underpant bomber. And they're older/worse planes on that route a lot of the time!

KLM is still KLM metal isn't it. its northwest that disappeared into delta. Skyteam do run a pretty aggressive alliance though and will put you on any metal in the alliance rather than try and keep you on the product you think you buying. check the operating airline before pressing 'ok'

[miln0039]

ViperDave said:

KLM is still KLM metal isn't it. its northwest that disappeared into delta. Skyteam do run a pretty aggressive alliance though and will put you on any metal in the alliance rather than try and keep you on the product you think you buying. check the operating airline before pressing 'ok'

Yes quite right. I just don't think there is that much KLM metal operating transatlantic these days - Delta 763/4s are pick of the day. Actually just occurred to me KLM may use some of the old NorthWest A330s - they're an ace plane! 763s should be avoided at all costs though!

[BigS]

Some really usefull stuff here, thanks

I've not had the "pleasure" of passing through Miami, Tampa and Sanford are the only Florida ones I've flown to and Sanford was 10 years ago so before all the extra security checks came in.

I speak enough French to be able to get beer and food in France but beyond that my mind tends to go blank except for "Le singe est dans l'arbre" and "J'ai trois boules bleues" so Montreal may be best avoided then by the sound of it.

I'm looking at a minimum of 2 weeks going up to as close to 3 as I can get away with for having time off work and I'm considering going to Zion NP, Bryce Canyon, Monument Valley, Mt Rushmore and Yellowstone and possibly doing it in a motorhome.
I've got nothing set in stone as yet and apart from being able to get flights at the right price there's the added problem of the availability of camp sites within the parks which may already be booked by now as I think they're made available for booking 6 months in advance and I'm looking at going in late May or June as after that I'll be in to my busiest time of the year in work and won't be able to go anywhere until November. I was lucky to be able to get 1 night in a tent cabin in Yosemite when I went and ended up having to plan the whole trip around that 1 night and I'm sure I booked that earlier than this, so I may end up finding somewhere else to go and putting it on the back burner until next year, trouble is I've got the roadtrip itch and the wide open spaces of the American West are calling
I've been trying to have a look at the route and accomodation side as well as the flights all week but so far no sooner have I started do I get dragged away to do something else
Will hopefully get a chance to have a proper look at it over the weekend even if I have to lock myself in the garage with the laptop to do it

[Puggit]

You don't 'pass' through Miami - you are ground through it

[miln0039]

Puggit said:

You don't 'pass' through Miami - you are ground through it

+ 1,000

[ViperDave]

Two weeks is really the minimum for that route especially in a camper, you may be pushing it a bit actually as you will likely be slower on the interstate than a car. Maybe not so much slower on the twisties as you would likely be stuck behind a camper if your in a car lol

As your going through page and SW Utah you have to so and see a slot canyon, antelope from page is the most popular but getting quite busy now. a good alternative is secret canyon with hummer adventure tours, its more expensive but there will be a max of 6 of you in the canyon rather than 600. ok i exaggerate the 600 but you will be lucky to get a photo without random bod in it at antelope

You don't mention Canyons and Arches NP which would be a shame to miss, there are loads of other B and C list sights in that area also such as Mesa Verde, black canyon of the gunnison, pikes peak, million dollar highway north of durango to montrose, Rockey mountains NP north of denver is worth a detour. there is so much stuff in that part of the world that you could easily fill three weeks on just half the route, either north or south, be careful you don't try too much and end up missing loads and just seeing the big ticket sites and interstate.

Oh and if your not prepared to park your vehicle and get the bus up zion canyon that would be the one i would cut out, you may also want to check the rules on campers through the tunnel, i seem to remember something about them being restricted in the summer.

Edited by ViperDave on Thursday 29th March 19:43

Edited by ViperDave on Thursday 29th March 19:45

[BigS]

ViperDave said:

Two weeks is really the minimum for that route especially in a camper, you may be pushing it a bit actually as you will likely be slower on the interstate than a car. Maybe not so much slower on the twisties as you would likely be stuck behind a camper if your in a car lol

I found when going over the Tioga Pass, through Death Valley and down the Pacific Coast Highway that the urge to stop and take pictures was more of a problem than being held up by traffic

ViperDave said:

As your going through page and SW Utah you have to so and see a slot canyon, antelope from page is the most popular but getting quite busy now. a good alternative is secret canyon with hummer adventure tours, its more expensive but there will be a max of 6 of you in the canyon rather than 600. ok i exaggerate the 600 but you will be lucky to get a photo without random bod in it at antelope

You don't mention Canyons and Arches NP which would be a shame to miss, there are loads of other B and C list sights in that area also such as Mesa Verde, black canyon of the gunnison, pikes peak, million dollar highway north of durango to montrose, Rockey mountains NP north of denver is worth a detour. there is so much stuff in that part of the world that you could easily fill three weeks on just half the route, either north or south, be careful you don't try too much and end up missing loads and just seeing the big ticket sites and interstate.

Deciding on where and where not to go on the way is a bit of a problem, trying to balance it so I don't end up trying to fit too much in or picking places that are so far apart that I just end up spending all my time driving between them. I had the same problem when I went in 2010, I'd originally wanted to do a loop around the Grand Canyon taking in Zion, Bryce, the Moki Dugway, Monument Valley and the Hoover Dam on the way. As I couldn't have the extra week off work it would have taken I ended up doing the dam and Grand Canyon as day trips from Vegas instead and to be honest I think I got to see a lot more of the scale of the canyon from the flight out to the South Rim than I would have from drving there.
I suspect I could probably spend 2 weeks just going to the places around the Grand Canyon and Monument Valley general area, I know I could have quite happily spent 2 weeks in Yosemite and probably still not have seen everything there is to see there.
In some ways I really don't like the trip planning stage, I get far too easily distracted by the geographical equivalents of shiny things

ViperDave said:

Oh and if your not prepared to park your vehicle and get the bus up zion canyon that would be the one i would cut out, you may also want to check the rules on campers through the tunnel, i seem to remember something about them being restricted in the summer.

If I remember rightly from when I looked at it in 2010, unless you're there early then the bus is the best option anyway as what parking spaces there are fill up quickly.
AS for the tunnel, I seem to remember your vehicle gets measured at the ranger station on the way in and if it's over a certain sisze, which a motorhome will be, then you get given a pass which you need to use to be escorted through the tunnel, can't remember if they give you a time slot or if you just turn up and they break out the pickup with the flashing lights and stop the traffic to escort you through or not now. If it's busy I suspect they'll be wanting to run a convoy of them through rather than in dribs and drabs.

[F i F]

PH scores again with some excellent suggestions on road trip locations I wouldn't have considered. Bookmarked, thanks!!!!

Re original question of the airports options listed my clear favourites would be Minneapolis with Atlanta a very close second.

Can't comment on Detroit as never used, but the rest I'd avoid esp JFK.

That advice about checking what int'l flights are scheduled to arrive one hour either side of your is a good one. Personally I've never had an issue but my OCD-ness on not being late means I never plan less than three hours transfer time and take a book.

[ViperDave]

BigS said:

Moki Dugway

I saw that and thought hmmm wheres that then, doh now i'm going to have to go back to see that. Google however tells me we saw it without realising the name lol. If your going there though you should also check out the goose necks, its a bit like horseshoe bend south of page, and i assume you will also do bridges NP.

you could most definitely fill 3 weeks in the S UT, NW AZ area and still come back having heard of places on route you want to see but couldn't make, and once you have driven around it all you will come to realise there is a big lake in the middle that you haven't seen much of so then you have a whole new holiday ready made in a house boat on lake Powell and still you will have to go back again to see more of that lol.

Do be careful of scenery burn out though, we have been known to turn up at world class attractions and go pahh its another canyon/mountain, next. Zion is probably a classic example of that when we visited the first two times, first time was towards the end you the same route your planning, it was summer and before they closed the canyon to traffic, couldn't park anywhere in canyon so saw very little of it, second time was again in summer, canyon now closed to traffic and it was bedlam so we ended up jut driving the main road and tunnel. Third time was late jan, the main canyon road is open in the winter, you can count the other visitors on your hands and toes, park where you like etc. Even with severely restricted walking ability (we were there as our ski trip had ended with 12 stitches and ACL injury) its the only time i truly enjoyed the canyon and felt it was worth the effort.

we have been to that area so many times now and still i have plans to see more, one day i want to get to see and photograph the wave and see some of the lesser known slot canyons.

there's plenty to fill another three weeks up north with Yellowstone, if you factor in rapid city, the badlands, glacier NP NW Idaho and the snake river, Bonneville will take a day to get to from anywhere.

Edited by ViperDave on Saturday 31st March 09:05