Discussion
Made the trek up to Oulton Park this weekend for the Tuscans and came away pretty downhearted to be honest.
The guys who remain in the series are still putting in all the effort required to make it a success but I feel like I witnessed the end of an era.
11? cars raced and although the races had their moments, it was far from the exciting spectacle that it used to be. Personally I think it's almost crunch point.
Chris Stockton's cars is heading off to the 750MC or something which is another car lost. The TV people must surely be thinking hard about scheduling coverage for next year and I'd be very surprised if Tuscans could secure another slot in the SRO GT tour.
I feel very sorry for those drivers still working their nuts off to save the series but I can't see season happening... Very downheartening - and that's just from a spectator's point of view.
The guys who remain in the series are still putting in all the effort required to make it a success but I feel like I witnessed the end of an era.
11? cars raced and although the races had their moments, it was far from the exciting spectacle that it used to be. Personally I think it's almost crunch point.
Chris Stockton's cars is heading off to the 750MC or something which is another car lost. The TV people must surely be thinking hard about scheduling coverage for next year and I'd be very surprised if Tuscans could secure another slot in the SRO GT tour.
I feel very sorry for those drivers still working their nuts off to save the series but I can't see season happening... Very downheartening - and that's just from a spectator's point of view.
Ted, I believe that B T has made some valid points. John Reid has always helped those on tight budgets. At the moment we have all these micky mouse championships created by the MSA. May be some of us Tuscan team owners and promoters should look at how "Days of Thunder" are getting in the big names sponsors.
B T said:
Hi all,
I would be very interested to see what you guy's think, it would need to put the challenge back on track,some of my thought's
1 Re body the orginal car with a Tuscan s or 350 Body's
2 Engine lease cost's (lower)
3 Tyre's (longer lasting)
4 Entrie fees (more cars less fee's)
5 The cost of the cars now,we sould have at least
20-25 cars out racing,this week end was as good as ever.
It is well known which series I want to be RIP! I think Bert believes we can revive the Tuscans. It can be done! However as No29 says it needs the full backing of TVR. I am sure we can work something out.
As for rebodying, how about the Tuscan 2 seen in the press recently. It's a convertible for that wind-in-the-helmet racing, it's a current model to promote from TVR's viewpoint, it's about the same size as a challange car so bodywork should fit, if not slightly differing sized bodywork could be used that won't look visually differant. I'm afraid my knowledge of TVR road cars isn't too hot but are any of the Tuscan road cars v8 or are they all S6? If they are all S6 could the challenge chassis be altered to fit a S6?
GCerbera said:
Now I know even as I type, their must be a damn good reason, but why can't the
Tuscan Challenge and TVRCC Challenge be moulded into one TVR championship,
and split into classes?
The Tuscan Challenge cars run at the same pace as the British GT cars.
Absolutely no disrespect to the TVRCC Challenge guys, but to put Tasmins on the same track as Tuscan's would be potentially dangerous - the speed differential would be huge. Imagine coming round a corner in a wall of spray to find a car travelling significantly slower. The beauty of the Tuscans has always been that it is close, spectacular racing. Multi class loses this crucial element.
I think the purpose of the current threads is how can the Tuscan Challenge be returned to its hey day as a premier national series, rather than how can it be downgraded into a club series.
Mr Freke - you had some bad luck in the Tuscan but your comments above are unhelpful and come across as being bitter. And I know a thing or two about having bad luck in the Tuscans.
I don't race so these comments are strictly from a spectators viewpoint; i) the Race Tuscan has been around a long time now, what was it 88? 89? Certainly it just pre-dates the Griffith and that has come and gone. So number one I think the cars do need an update. ii) It makes sense for the race series cars to resemble the road cars, so spectators see them hurtling around the track and at the weekend and can then aspire to owning one and driving it on the roads. This is the case with the 911 Porsche series cars. iii) I was quite excited at the prospect of seeing the T350 racing this year so I think TVR should still endeavour to make this happen. iv) I agree about open top racing but I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Tamora? This has the same Speed 6 engine and a decent chassis and updating these into the could breath new life into the series. Seeing the series die would be quite sad, just a thought. Rich…
griff2be said:Hi Andy, sorry I didn't mean to insult either championship and I now understand the reasons why.
I think the purpose of the current threads is how can the Tuscan Challenge be returned to its hey day as a premier national series, rather than how can it be downgraded into a club series.
I've only seen the races at Donnington and the one race at Silverstone this season
and very much enjoyed those, but I gathered the racing was not as close as it has
been due to numbers.
I wish everyone well with a soloution.
GCerbera said:
griff2be said:
I think the purpose of the current threads is how can the Tuscan Challenge be returned to its hey day as a premier national series, rather than how can it be downgraded into a club series.
Hi Andy, sorry I didn't mean to insult either championship and I now understand the reasons why.
I've only seen the races at Donnington and the one race at Silverstone this season
and very much enjoyed those, but I gathered the racing was not as close as it has
been due to numbers.
I wish everyone well with a soloution.
I didn't take it as an insult, so don't worry!!
The racing is as close as ever up front. The low numbers meant that at Oulton I was effectively running on my own. I made a mistake and dropped off the back of Tim and Darren and that was it. I finished with a 15 second gap ahead and behind me. Not quite what I'm used to.
I blame ex
29, ex-No 5 and ex-No 27, amongst others
I'll just have to go faster
(The Donington and Silverstone grids weren't bad - but really 20 or so cars would be ideal).
>> Edited by griff2be on Monday 19th July 16:30
griff2be said:
Now I know even as I type, their must be a damn good reason, but why can't the
Tuscan Challenge and TVRCC Challenge be moulded into one TVR championship,
and split into classes?
The Tuscan Challenge cars run at the same pace as the British GT cars.
Absolutely no disrespect to the TVRCC Challenge guys, but to put Tasmins on the same track as Tuscan's would be potentially dangerous - the speed differential would be huge. Imagine coming round a corner in a wall of spray to find a car travelling significantly slower. The beauty of the Tuscans has always been that it is close, spectacular racing. Multi class loses this crucial element.
I think the purpose of the current threads is how can the Tuscan Challenge be returned to its hey day as a premier national series, rather than how can it be downgraded into a club series.
Mr Freke - you had some bad luck in the Tuscan but your comments above are unhelpful and come across as being bitter. And I know a thing or two about having bad luck in the Tuscans.
Mr Holden, This is not aimed at the Tuscans at all, but at the series it is part of, which is exactly as I stated.If you are comparing it with the days of thunder or even TOCA it is not even in the same ball park. In fact it is not even in the same ball park as some high profile karting events. I / we are not bitter about anything (except lack of funds) and would be back tomorrow if we had the funding available, the Tuscan is a fabulous car to drive, but it is a problem with the small grids to attract any kind of interest which is sad. There is a general problem in the UK with motorsport in that it is at the mercy of business interests who have no real interest in the competition or competitors. This does not seem to be the case in europe or USA to the same extent.
centuryrace said:
Mr Holden, This is not aimed at the Tuscans at all, but at the series it is part of, which is exactly as I stated.If you are comparing it with the days of thunder or even TOCA it is not even in the same ball park. In fact it is not even in the same ball park as some high profile karting events. I / we are not bitter about anything (except lack of funds) and would be back tomorrow if we had the funding available, the Tuscan is a fabulous car to drive, but it is a problem with the small grids to attract any kind of interest which is sad. There is a general problem in the UK with motorsport in that it is at the mercy of business interests who have no real interest in the competition or competitors. This does not seem to be the case in europe or USA to the same extent.
Fair enough - sorry I misinterpreted your earlier post.
There is a problem in general with British motorsport - the disconnect between the organisers and the circuit owners.
The organisers hire the circuit and expect to cover their costs from entry fees - i.e. the drivers. They don't have an incentive to promote the race.
The circuits pocket the gate receipts, but don't see it as their job to promote races either (with a few exceptions).
So you could drive past Oulton, for example, this weekend and not know that there was a GT/F3 meeting on. Madness!
The Tuscans is chicken and egg - small grids make it difficult to attract sponsors and without sponsors you can't get on the grid.
Personally I thing some scantily clad ladies would be a step in the right direction
As a spectator and follower its dead
There appears to be lack of direction at the top,there are no big name sponsors being chased,costs are going up and grids down
As already mentioned the cars are getting on now,most people like to watch modern cars racing not classics
To be viable would mean another 10 to 15 cars on the grids that equates to approx £500k more of sponsership money to be found,not very likely unfortunately.TVR need to either fully support the series,not just finacially,but making spares are readilly available on the day etc, or pull the plug at end of the season.
Then a rethink about launching a T350, S6 Tuscan or sagaris series the year after next
All IMHO
Edited to say
Think about it from a TVR dealers view point, which looks better, supporting a 15 year old design of car you cant sell or supporting a modern TVR which you can use to promote your business
>> Edited by pies on Monday 19th July 17:07
There appears to be lack of direction at the top,there are no big name sponsors being chased,costs are going up and grids down
As already mentioned the cars are getting on now,most people like to watch modern cars racing not classics
To be viable would mean another 10 to 15 cars on the grids that equates to approx £500k more of sponsership money to be found,not very likely unfortunately.TVR need to either fully support the series,not just finacially,but making spares are readilly available on the day etc, or pull the plug at end of the season.
Then a rethink about launching a T350, S6 Tuscan or sagaris series the year after next
All IMHO
Edited to say
Think about it from a TVR dealers view point, which looks better, supporting a 15 year old design of car you cant sell or supporting a modern TVR which you can use to promote your business
>> Edited by pies on Monday 19th July 17:07
Pies, I respect the IMHO caveat.... however...
1) the Tuscan racer has never been a car you can buy. Dealers sponsor cars not because a spectator can watch it race on Sunday and buy one on Monday, but because motorsport is fundamental to the TVR brand and they want to be seen to be involved.
2) the Tuscan racer remains one of the fastest sports car series anywhere - as proved by the lap times which eclipse all but 2 of the British GT field
3) whilst it is 15 years old, it certainly doesn't look it
4) big name sponsors are chased by drivers/teams, not TVR. Although I do think a series sponsor whose money went directly to competitors rather than via TVR would be of great benefit to us.
5) the spares support at races is generally fine. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
6) Costs are not up to any significant degree. Tyres cost the same as last year, yes entry fees have gone up, and the engine lease has gone up a little. But you ask anyone who races minis whether the Tuscan engine deal is a good one. It is. We have 450bhp engines and if they go bang, we get another one. The mini guys spend more on engines than we do.
The fact is that all motorsport is expensive. Period. For the performance of the cars Tuscan racing is actually relatively inexpensive.
However, the falling grid numbers do indicate that the series needs a shot in the arm. I don't believe the shot in the arm is making it cheaper, because it can't be done without sacrificing something.
What does need to be done is raising the profile significantly so that drivers have a better product to offer to sponsors.
Whether that is provided by refreshing the cars (new cars, body shell, whatever), getting Nigel Mansell or other household names into a factory run guest car for the rest of the year, getting a TV production company to do a fly on the wall documentary on the series and its drivers, I don't know.
Just bringing out a Sagaris and expecting it all to be ok is not the answer. I can't afford another £20-40k on top of my race budget to buy a new car.
I would however, be prepared to pay a couple of thousand to re-shell my existing car to satisfy you whingers that the car isn't modern enough.
If everyone in PH land who works for a big company went to the man (or woman) in charge and said - why don't we sponsor a car in the Tuscans - the racing is brilliant, its on TV and we can have a bloody good day at the circuit in hospitality - then maybe, just maybe, we'd pick up another few decent sized corporate sponsors and we'd be on our way.
Rather than peering into the Tuscan cup, declaring it half empty then putting the boot in and proclaiming it dead.
Sorry Pies - not a dig at you. If we all go round saying the Tuscan Challenge is dead, it will become a self fulfilling prophesy.
My Tuscan is very much alive and I urge anyone who hasn't been to see the Tuscans race to come to Thruxton on Bank Holiday Monday at the end of August. A bit like Le Mans, come and stay overnight, join the teams for a few beers and get close to TVR motorsport.
You will see a spectacular and unique race series that I for one do not want to see die.
>> Edited by griff2be on Monday 19th July 18:19
1) the Tuscan racer has never been a car you can buy. Dealers sponsor cars not because a spectator can watch it race on Sunday and buy one on Monday, but because motorsport is fundamental to the TVR brand and they want to be seen to be involved.
2) the Tuscan racer remains one of the fastest sports car series anywhere - as proved by the lap times which eclipse all but 2 of the British GT field
3) whilst it is 15 years old, it certainly doesn't look it
4) big name sponsors are chased by drivers/teams, not TVR. Although I do think a series sponsor whose money went directly to competitors rather than via TVR would be of great benefit to us.
5) the spares support at races is generally fine. Don't believe everything you read on the internet
6) Costs are not up to any significant degree. Tyres cost the same as last year, yes entry fees have gone up, and the engine lease has gone up a little. But you ask anyone who races minis whether the Tuscan engine deal is a good one. It is. We have 450bhp engines and if they go bang, we get another one. The mini guys spend more on engines than we do.
The fact is that all motorsport is expensive. Period. For the performance of the cars Tuscan racing is actually relatively inexpensive.
However, the falling grid numbers do indicate that the series needs a shot in the arm. I don't believe the shot in the arm is making it cheaper, because it can't be done without sacrificing something.
What does need to be done is raising the profile significantly so that drivers have a better product to offer to sponsors.
Whether that is provided by refreshing the cars (new cars, body shell, whatever), getting Nigel Mansell or other household names into a factory run guest car for the rest of the year, getting a TV production company to do a fly on the wall documentary on the series and its drivers, I don't know.
Just bringing out a Sagaris and expecting it all to be ok is not the answer. I can't afford another £20-40k on top of my race budget to buy a new car.
I would however, be prepared to pay a couple of thousand to re-shell my existing car to satisfy you whingers
that the car isn't modern enough. If everyone in PH land who works for a big company went to the man (or woman) in charge and said - why don't we sponsor a car in the Tuscans - the racing is brilliant, its on TV and we can have a bloody good day at the circuit in hospitality - then maybe, just maybe, we'd pick up another few decent sized corporate sponsors and we'd be on our way.
Rather than peering into the Tuscan cup, declaring it half empty then putting the boot in and proclaiming it dead.
Sorry Pies - not a dig at you. If we all go round saying the Tuscan Challenge is dead, it will become a self fulfilling prophesy.
My Tuscan is very much alive and I urge anyone who hasn't been to see the Tuscans race to come to Thruxton on Bank Holiday Monday at the end of August. A bit like Le Mans, come and stay overnight, join the teams for a few beers and get close to TVR motorsport.
You will see a spectacular and unique race series that I for one do not want to see die.
>> Edited by griff2be on Monday 19th July 18:19
griff2be said:
Rather than peering into the Tuscan cup, declaring it half empty then putting the boot in and declaring it dead.
I've not missed many Tuscan races in the last five years and it pained me to start this thread, but the cup is emptying... unless it's given a shot in the arm before the end of the season then there will be many people very unsure about committing to next year (sponsors/drivers/dealers/TV etc.).
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