Punctures - replace or repair?

[Davel]

Just had my first ' screw in rear tyre' episode.

The tyre was replaced and cost £140, which I spose is not unreasonable for a Pirelli Scorpion.

I'm told that it could have been plugged or vulcanised and I used a tyre weld type product to limp about on for a couple of days.

Question is, what would you do repair or replace?

Bearing in mind that, normally, its the only thing in contact with the road, I chose to replace.

[Wacky Racer]

So your life is not worth 140 quid??? (less the cost of any vulcanising)......


There was an old saying in the sixties....If you've got a ten pound head get a ten pound helmet......

[t-c]

There was a big debate when I was in the trade a few years back about plugging tyres mainly because of a recommendation made by the BSI, and this was despite the fact that the chairman of this particular committee owned a company which manufacturers internal repair kits for motorcycle tyres.

The general rule is that if the hole is no more than 50% beyond the centre of the tread and the integrity of the sidewall has not been compromised then to plug it with a vulcanised mushroom is not a problem (I currently have three in the back of my Blackbird). If the hole is substantial or the sidewall is damaged then it should be replaced.

I have done 8,000 miles on my plugged tyre without problem, and I have plugged previous tyres again I have never had a problem.

Where the problem does lie is with external or temporary get you home kits which have a recommended top speed of 30 MPH for a maximum of 200 miles. When these kits are used it tends to seperate the carcass reducing the structural strength considerably, and it in effect destroys the tyre. I am currently dealing with a fatality where one of these plugs let go at just over 30 mph and when it blew it took about a third of the tyre with it causing an instant loss of control.

There is a new type of puncture repair kit which allows an internal mushroom to be fitted without taking the tyre of the rim, and the tests I have seen so far are very impressive. I am currently reviewing it for the magazine and so far I am satisfied that this particular kit (which comes from America) is without doubt the best on the market to date.

>> Edited by t-c on Thursday 15th July 13:14

[dern]

Wacky Racer said:

So your life is not worth 140 quid??? (less the cost of any vulcanising)...... There was an old saying in the sixties....If you've got a ten pound head get a ten pound helmet......

It's just this sort of guff that causes these interesting discussions to stall. The information from t-c is very informative and shows that tyres can be repaired. IMO the 10 pound helmet arguement is b*llocks in that as far as I can see more expensive helmets have more in the way of stuff like removeable linings and better vents and so on but are still made to the same standard as many of the cheaper helmets.

t-c, have you got any information on where the new type of repair kit can be bought in the uk by any chance?

Thanks,

Mark

[Wacky Racer]

dern said:

Wacky Racer said: So your life is not worth 140 quid??? (less the cost of any vulcanising)...... There was an old saying in the sixties....If you've got a ten pound head get a ten pound helmet...... It's just this sort of guff that causes these interesting discussions to stall. The information from t-c is very informative and shows that tyres can be repaired.

I never said they couldn't be repaired, possibly the repair MIGHT be OK, saving you a few quid, but is it worth taking the chance on a 170 mph machine???

Yes I would have it vulcanised if I rode a Honda 90..

[t-c]

dern said:

t-c, have you got any information on where the new type of repair kit can be bought in the uk by any chance? Thanks, Mark

I have a kit at home which I am currently trialing, so I will dig out the details. It retails for about £45, but it does contain enough mushrooms and kit to fix about 20 punctures and will repair car as well as bike punctures. Give me 24 hours and (if I remember) I will post details up.

As far as the £10 head £10 helmet thing is concerned, that myth was blown out of the water years ago! It is a proven fact that a well fitting £40 helmet will offer substantialy more protection than a poorly fitting £400 helmet, and just as many people suffer severe head injuries in something like an Arai as they do in a cheap Bieffe.

[Tonyrec]

In 2000 i bought a new 'ZX-6' and was unlucky enough to have 4 punctures in as many months.
I replaced the tyre on the first 3 but on the last one i had it sent away to have it vulcanised as my wallet couldnt stand the strain.

Strange thing is that when i was riding it, it was always in the back of my mind that i was riding on a repaired tyre and it took a bit of confidence away.

At the end of the day, its down to personal choice.

[Wacky Racer]

t-c said:

As far as the £10 head £10 helmet thing is concerned, that myth was blown out of the water years ago! It is a proven fact that a well fitting £40 helmet will offer substantially more protection than a poorly fitting £400 helmet

I 100% agree with you t-c, no question there.......

BUT, would a good fitting 40 quid helmet be as good as a good fitting 400 quid one????

My helmet, (open face) cost 65 pounds btw...

[dern]

t-c said:

I have a kit at home which I am currently trialing, so I will dig out the details. It retails for about £45, but it does contain enough mushrooms and kit to fix about 20 punctures and will repair car as well as bike punctures. Give me 24 hours and (if I remember) I will post details up.

Thanks, I look forward to that. Is it a repair you can do by the roadside by the way?

Regards,

Mark

[Davel]

I replaced my tyre mainly for peace of mind. I was reluctant to put my trust in a temporary repair but wasn't sure whether to write the tyre off or not.

Look forward to hearing more about the mushroom repair type kit, especially if you can do it whilst out and about.

[t-c]

Wacky Racer said:

BUT, would a good fitting 40 quid helmet be as good as a good fitting 400 quid one???? My helmet, (open face) cost 65 pounds btw...

Yes, particularly now the new regs are in force, namely EC22/05 (soon to be replaced by 22/06) which is a self accreditation and replaces the old BS6658-85.

With the dearer helmets what you are paying for is a better quality in terms of the materials used, visor operation, better lining and venting and often a fancy paint job not to mention the name, but the overall level of protection is no better than many cheaper helmets.

[t-c]

dern said:

Thanks, I look forward to that. Is it a repair you can do by the roadside by the way? Regards, Mark

Yep, the whole point of this new kit is that it is a permanant repair that can be done easily at the roadside and it will not cause seperation of the carcass!

[BliarOut]

t-c said:

Wacky Racer said: BUT, would a good fitting 40 quid helmet be as good as a good fitting 400 quid one???? My helmet, (open face) cost 65 pounds btw... Yes, particularly now the new regs are in force, namely EC22/05 (soon to be replaced by 22/06) which is a self accreditation and replaces the old BS6658-85. With the dearer helmets what you are paying for is a better quality in terms of the materials used, visor operation, better lining and venting and often a fancy paint job not to mention the name, but the overall level of protection is no better than many cheaper helmets.

The manufacturer was Bell, the advertising slogan was actually "If you've got a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet"

If you want to wear a cheap helmet, it's your choice. Me, I choose to buy the best you can get. Wouldn't it be a real er to find out that for anouther £100 you could have bought a helmet that would have saved you from brain damage, as you sit in a persistent vegetative state dribbling.

Life's a shit, if only the tyre you had saved money on repairing had held out, you wouldn't have had the off in the first place.

[t-c]

BliarOut said:

If you want to wear a cheap helmet, it's your choice. Me, I choose to buy the best you can get. Wouldn't it be a real er to find out that for anouther £100 you could have bought a helmet that would have saved you from brain damage, as you sit in a persistent vegetative state dribbling.

If that is the case, why do I get just as many serious brain injury cases to deal with from riders who were wearing so called top of the line helmets as I do with the cheaper ones.

Yes it is personal choice, I don't think Arai is the best make, so for me it is overated and over priced, and besides they don't fit me properly, but the fact that I choose to wear an AGV which is at least a hundred quid cheaper than the Arai, is certainly quieter does not mean that my safety has been compromised.

I went to a factory in China a few years ago where they made the shells for one of the big names. They were manufactured and sent out for under £3 a shell and they retailed for over £400.

One day I will post the findings of my 15 year study on helmets and accidents up here (which was done in conjunction with the factories in Japan and Italy)and really bore you silly! The study is still ongoing, but all I would say is be carefull of making sweeping statements that you will only get maximum protection from the most expensive helmets becausae that is absolute cr@p!

>> Edited by t-c on Thursday 15th July 16:26

[BliarOut]

That would actually be very interesting. I am assisting a surgeon in the US to build a mechanism for reporting on what works and what doesn't to assist in future fracture treatment. I am quite well versed in injury mechanisms.

IMHO, saving money when it comes to personal safety is a bad idea.

If you don't want to give yourself the best possible chance in an off, that's your choice. I have two back protectors. Both cost a similar amount, but there is NO comparison on their protective qualities.

Look at the Alpine Stars stuff, all over the labels, "this is not personal protective equipment" A full race suit costs £1200, yet a set of Crowtrees only costs 2/3 of that.... yet offers better protection.

Again, for me, laying there paralysed because I scrimped on my safety gear would be a real er to live with.

[t-c]

BliarOut said:

That would actually be very interesting. I am assisting a surgeon in the US to build a mechanism for reporting on what works and what doesn't to assist in future fracture treatment. I am quite well versed in injury mechanisms. IMHO, saving money when it comes to personal safety is a bad idea. If you don't want to give yourself the best possible chance in an off, that's your choice. I have two back protectors. Both cost a similar amount, but there is NO comparison on their protective qualities. Look at the Alpine Stars stuff, all over the labels, "this is not personal protective equipment" A full race suit costs £1200, yet a set of Crowtrees only costs 2/3 of that.... yet offers better protection. Again, for me, laying there paralysed because I scrimped on my safety gear would be a real er to live with.

So you would recommend the likes of BKS and the like? And yet when I was taken out and left in a coma I was wearing over £3K's worth of kit and I am still a cripple and will have my left leg amputated in the next few years.

My job is to investigate, study and deal with motorcycle accidents, and the study of motorcycle clothing and its affects in accidents is something I have built up a lot of knowledge and expertise in over the years, and I have been doing it for over 25 years so I have a little experience in this type of thing, and is the reason why I act as a consultant to a number of organizations at Government and national committee level for a number of organizations around the world and I am sorry to say that the most expensive does not mean the best.

I have also been involved in the development and design of motorcycle protective equipment at the prototype stage both here in the UK and in Japan and Italy not to mention a great deal of work I did in germany, so I have a pretty good idea of how the kit works. This is not meant as a "Blow my own trumpet" type comment, but simply to emphasise that I don't make the comments lightly, it is based on 20 years as a traffic motorcycle cop dealing with accidents on a daily basis, 10 years as an independant accident investigator, and 8 years running my own motorcycle clothing and development business.

As for back protectors, don't get me started on that as this topic will well and truly go off thread!

>> Edited by t-c on Thursday 15th July 16:56

[BliarOut]

t-c said:

BliarOut said: That would actually be very interesting. I am assisting a surgeon in the US to build a mechanism for reporting on what works and what doesn't to assist in future fracture treatment. I am quite well versed in injury mechanisms. IMHO, saving money when it comes to personal safety is a bad idea. If you don't want to give yourself the best possible chance in an off, that's your choice. I have two back protectors. Both cost a similar amount, but there is NO comparison on their protective qualities. Look at the Alpine Stars stuff, all over the labels, "this is not personal protective equipment" A full race suit costs £1200, yet a set of Crowtrees only costs 2/3 of that.... yet offers better protection. Again, for me, laying there paralysed because I scrimped on my safety gear would be a real er to live with. So you would recommend the likes of BKS and the like? And yet when I was taken out and left in a coma I was wearing over £3K's worth of kit and I am still a cripple and will have my left leg amputated in the next few years. My job is to investigate, study and deal with motorcycle accidents, and I have been doing it for over 25 years so I have a little experience in this type of thing, and I am sorry to say that the most expensive does not mean the best. As for back protectors, don't get me started on that as this topic will well and truly go off thread!

Very much like my good self... 2" missing out of a leg and only just avoided the amputation. Had a teaching professor not been over from the US, who I am now assisting, my leg wouldn't have either. I have the surgeons notes at home from when we looked at making myleg a case study. I usually do very well on the "let's compare scars front"

As time progresses, so does treatment. I was at the AAOS conference in San Francisco earlier this year. Very interesting stuff going on.

Anyway, if you hadn't been wearing good gear, you may have much worse! Read back up the thread, I do not advocate the most expensive, I advocate what testing indicates is best.

And good luck with the leg, I honestly do know what it's like to have that hanging over you.

[tycho]

t-c said:

So you would recommend the likes of BKS and the like? And yet when I was taken out and left in a coma I was wearing over £3K's worth of kit and I am still a cripple and will have my left leg amputated in the next few years. My job is to investigate, study and deal with motorcycle accidents, and the study of motorcycle clothing and its affects in accidents is something I have built up a lot of knowledge and expertise in over the years, and I have been doing it for over 25 years so I have a little experience in this type of thing, and is the reason why I act as a consultant to a number of organizations at Government and national committee level for a number of organizations around the world and I am sorry to say that the most expensive does not mean the best. I have also been involved in the development and design of motorcycle protective equipment at the prototype stage both here in the UK and in Japan and Italy not to mention a great deal of work I did in germany, so I have a pretty good idea of how the kit works. This is not meant as a "Blow my own trumpet" type comment, but simply to emphasise that I don't make the comments lightly, it is based on 20 years as a traffic motorcycle cop dealing with accidents on a daily basis, 10 years as an independant accident investigator, and 8 years running my own motorcycle clothing and development business. As for back protectors, don't get me started on that as this topic will well and truly go off thread!

t-c, it sounds like you know quite a bit about back protectors. Can you start a new thread about which ones are worth their money? I've been looking at getting one but can't decide between the hard shell or the foam ones.

[Wacky Racer]

t-c said:

So you would recommend the likes of BKS and the like? And yet when I was taken out and left in a coma I was wearing over £3K's worth of kit and I am still a cripple and will have my left leg amputated in the next few years.

Really sorry to hear that t-c.....

I have been riding high powered machines 30+ years without incident, but when my eighteen year old son wanted a bike I fortunately managed to talk him out of it......