Viewing a couple of 968s - advice please!
Discussion
I've admired the 968 from afar for some time and have decided to take the plunge. I've never owned a porker before and the 'legendary' handling, rarity and sub £10k price tag of the 968 Sport all appeal. It will be used as a daily driver and, unfortunately, will be have to be street parked overnight.
I've got two viewings lined up for next week. Both are for relatively modest mileage cars (100k)and both are from recognised independent porsche specialists. Both have cambelt, tensioners etc recently and FSH.
I've read as many buying guides as I can find but, as this still represents quite a major purchase for me, I would really appreciate any advice PHers can offer both in relation to what to consider when buying and the validity of running one as a daily.
Cheers all!
I've got two viewings lined up for next week. Both are for relatively modest mileage cars (100k)and both are from recognised independent porsche specialists. Both have cambelt, tensioners etc recently and FSH.
I've read as many buying guides as I can find but, as this still represents quite a major purchase for me, I would really appreciate any advice PHers can offer both in relation to what to consider when buying and the validity of running one as a daily.
Cheers all!
http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/
You may get a better response posting there. I have not seen that much discussion about 968s on here, almost none on 944s. 993 threads now seem few and far between. Seems most PH posters are into newer stuff now.
You may get a better response posting there. I have not seen that much discussion about 968s on here, almost none on 944s. 993 threads now seem few and far between. Seems most PH posters are into newer stuff now.
I've run a 944 S2 for 3 years now, it's virtually the same car despite the "80% of the parts are new" claim that Porsche made!
I'd say it's fine as an everyday car just so long as you accept it'll get the usual wear and tear; you can't be precious about every little parking dink unless you lock it away in a garage and never use it. It's an old car, so might be likely to let you down more often than a brand new car. That can be almost eliminated by proper specialist maintenance, explain to them the use it'll get and they will tailor the servicing to you. Just being around the more specialist forums will soon make you aware of what you can do to avoid problems, for instance making sure the battery is very good as it's a big old lump to turn over in cold weather.
Buy the best you can. That legendary handling might be underwhelming if the suspension is knackered, and the brakes might seem weak if the calipers are corroded. Finding one that's had major areas attended to is always better.
Bear in mind that it might be a sub-£10K car, but the running costs can still be pretty high, especially with labour rates at specialists being reasonable but not cheap. Certainly a better bet than a £10K 996 though.
I'd say it's fine as an everyday car just so long as you accept it'll get the usual wear and tear; you can't be precious about every little parking dink unless you lock it away in a garage and never use it. It's an old car, so might be likely to let you down more often than a brand new car. That can be almost eliminated by proper specialist maintenance, explain to them the use it'll get and they will tailor the servicing to you. Just being around the more specialist forums will soon make you aware of what you can do to avoid problems, for instance making sure the battery is very good as it's a big old lump to turn over in cold weather.
Buy the best you can. That legendary handling might be underwhelming if the suspension is knackered, and the brakes might seem weak if the calipers are corroded. Finding one that's had major areas attended to is always better.
Bear in mind that it might be a sub-£10K car, but the running costs can still be pretty high, especially with labour rates at specialists being reasonable but not cheap. Certainly a better bet than a £10K 996 though.
They work really well as a daily runabout - a very engaging drive.
As well as the belts, camshafts can be a weak point with teeth breaking off. If the belts have recently been done, see if the waterpump was done at the same time - a big job.
Other issues can include plate lift on the brake calipers, and 968s are known for pinion bearing problems (I had pinion bearings done at around 110k - another expensive job).
Feel free to ask any questions - good luck with your search.
As well as the belts, camshafts can be a weak point with teeth breaking off. If the belts have recently been done, see if the waterpump was done at the same time - a big job.
Other issues can include plate lift on the brake calipers, and 968s are known for pinion bearing problems (I had pinion bearings done at around 110k - another expensive job).
Feel free to ask any questions - good luck with your search.
I ran a 968 cab as a daily drive for 4+ years. Great car. excellent build quality overall. In addition to the cam belts you must check for gearbox noise/whine. There was a design flaw in the gearbox pinion bearing which traditionally fails around the 100k mark. Those cars that reached it early enough got sorted by Porsche. Mine took 15 years to get to 100k so I had to foot the bill..... £1600 or thereabouts. More of a pain was finding someone who actually had the necessary expertise and the correct tools to sort it, and was old enough to remember how. I had mine done at Northway, off the M4, they were excellent.
Another thing is to look carefully at the interior. If you are the sort of chap that gets bothered by worn/frayed seat bolsters, then these can be expensive to get re-trimmed. The 968 sport usually came with fabric cloth seats, but I think you could spec leather/leatherette, the latter being even more hardy but again, pricey to re-trim.
968s also traditionally could suffer from problems with the calliper plates, and over time the engine seals can weep (due to impurities in the oil wearing them down over many miles) resulting in the need for a "front-end rebuild".
Most of 968 folklore-advice tends to focus on the cam belts/variocam etc which is quite correct. However on a car of this age it is often the little rubbery bits, widgets and seals that can cause the most grief, and no matter how well previous owners have looked after a car, you can't stop rubber degrading over time.
However...even with those provisos I never regretted, for one minute, owning the car.
Another thing is to look carefully at the interior. If you are the sort of chap that gets bothered by worn/frayed seat bolsters, then these can be expensive to get re-trimmed. The 968 sport usually came with fabric cloth seats, but I think you could spec leather/leatherette, the latter being even more hardy but again, pricey to re-trim.
968s also traditionally could suffer from problems with the calliper plates, and over time the engine seals can weep (due to impurities in the oil wearing them down over many miles) resulting in the need for a "front-end rebuild".
Most of 968 folklore-advice tends to focus on the cam belts/variocam etc which is quite correct. However on a car of this age it is often the little rubbery bits, widgets and seals that can cause the most grief, and no matter how well previous owners have looked after a car, you can't stop rubber degrading over time.
However...even with those provisos I never regretted, for one minute, owning the car.
The Sport is a good choice, lovely to use daily - just be aware that in summer a dark coloured 968 with no aircon is a horrible place to be, and very few sports have a/c fitted.
They are quite robust and relatively simple cars so treat it much like buying any other 18 yr old car - ie it could have all sorts of problems and hidden secrets so make sure it drives nicely as a starting point, and make sure everything stacks up (including mileage).
They are quite robust and relatively simple cars so treat it much like buying any other 18 yr old car - ie it could have all sorts of problems and hidden secrets so make sure it drives nicely as a starting point, and make sure everything stacks up (including mileage).
Thanks guys. Really useful stuff there. Some I already new and some I definitely didn't!
The pinion bearing issue is new to me and given the mileage of the cars I'm looking at, definitely food for thought. raises the question as to whether it would be better to go for a higher mileage example where these kind of problems have already been sorted?
Paul, useful advice too re servicing etc. I would hope to build up a decent relationship with a specialist who would get to know the car. As for parking dinks etc, I used to be precious about it with my current car, but short of moving, I know there's not much I can do about it!
Overall, encouraging feed back though. Looking forward to 968 ownership.
Cheers!
The pinion bearing issue is new to me and given the mileage of the cars I'm looking at, definitely food for thought. raises the question as to whether it would be better to go for a higher mileage example where these kind of problems have already been sorted?
Paul, useful advice too re servicing etc. I would hope to build up a decent relationship with a specialist who would get to know the car. As for parking dinks etc, I used to be precious about it with my current car, but short of moving, I know there's not much I can do about it!
Overall, encouraging feed back though. Looking forward to 968 ownership.
Cheers!
rallycross said:
just be aware that in summer a dark coloured 968 with no aircon is a horrible place to be
http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p522/timmytent...
Look at the lower edge of the front wing behind the front wheel and the lower lip of the rear arch behind the rear wheel. Protect both areas if using in winter, they can rust.
I've driven in Spain with the outside temp at and over 35 degrees for over 400 miles and a 968 without aircon is not a nice place to be. Saying that though, never had a problem driving in the UK without it.
Hope you enjoy it, I did. Lovely underated car.
I've driven in Spain with the outside temp at and over 35 degrees for over 400 miles and a 968 without aircon is not a nice place to be. Saying that though, never had a problem driving in the UK without it.
Hope you enjoy it, I did. Lovely underated car.
stuarte said:
How was the cab to drive Snapper? Am I right in thinking that none were Sport spec?
you are right, cabs were only issued in standard spec with leather, elec seats etc. I thought it ws a great, fun drive. Perhaps more of a GT/cruiser than a "proper" sports car, and yes, there was some scuttle shake when cornering hard. I suppose it depends on what you want from your car. I wouldn't have taken the cab on a track, but for daily use I suspect it did most things you'd want from a Sport, plus there was the bonus of having the top down.Great cars, I don't think you can go far wrong with a good one although there are plenty of more powerful choices.
I have a Sport with air con and it's a good one but it's still not a cheap car to run. I've had it for six years and it's now on 130,000 miles and in that time there have been some big bills; belts, water pump, cam chain, clutch etc but you can tell I like it by the fact that I've still got it. Great for the odd trackday / hillclimb and equally good for filling with camping stuff for the trip to Le Mans
The thing that has caused most ballache to be honest is actually the air con which has had multiple problems. Including a fun incident on the M3 when a compressor mounting bracket failed. This meant the compressor moved and took the tension out of the belt (also drives the alternator) this caused the belt to flap about and to, in turn, flick the PAS belt off altogether. This all happended silently and I didn't realise until I couldn't turn the wheel to get round the bend on the sliproad! As has been said though, I wouldn't be without air con. All that glass and the fact that the car is black means it gets very hot indeed. At Classic Le Mans the other year (blazing sunshine) anything metal in the car got too hot to touch.
I have a Sport with air con and it's a good one but it's still not a cheap car to run. I've had it for six years and it's now on 130,000 miles and in that time there have been some big bills; belts, water pump, cam chain, clutch etc but you can tell I like it by the fact that I've still got it. Great for the odd trackday / hillclimb and equally good for filling with camping stuff for the trip to Le Mans
The thing that has caused most ballache to be honest is actually the air con which has had multiple problems. Including a fun incident on the M3 when a compressor mounting bracket failed. This meant the compressor moved and took the tension out of the belt (also drives the alternator) this caused the belt to flap about and to, in turn, flick the PAS belt off altogether. This all happended silently and I didn't realise until I couldn't turn the wheel to get round the bend on the sliproad! As has been said though, I wouldn't be without air con. All that glass and the fact that the car is black means it gets very hot indeed. At Classic Le Mans the other year (blazing sunshine) anything metal in the car got too hot to touch.
For what it's worth I have in the last Month picked up a 968 Coupe auto (tiptronic) as a fun / possible daily for the girlfriend.
Overall I find the car well put together and you wouldnt believe certainly on the inside that the car is some 18/19 years old, still looks and smells like new to be honest, some parts are of course a little dated compared to newer pork etc but not bad.
We have probably not driven more than 100 or so miles (appart from the 100 drive home) as yet due to the snow etc but we did give it a good blat on saturday, took the roof panel out and have to say it drives very well for what it is, in auto mode it seems a bit sluggish and always wants to be in top gear for some reason so suspect one of the throttle to gearbox linkages or cables is out of adjustment (or maybe they are all like it)in manual overide its a completly different car and I would argue far better than an tiptronic boxster, the 968 changes exactly when you want it too without the normal count to 3 timelapse on most autos, seems to change nice both up and down the box.
Outside, still a good looking car in my opinion, needs the 17" wheels for sure to look its best but a nice shape and sensible size.
Fuel consumption has yet to be tested but imagine 25 ish to be about right.
Some bits like underside of boot carpet foam are starting to show there age but nothing to serious.
Not a bad tool in my opinion if your on a budget.
Overall I find the car well put together and you wouldnt believe certainly on the inside that the car is some 18/19 years old, still looks and smells like new to be honest, some parts are of course a little dated compared to newer pork etc but not bad.
We have probably not driven more than 100 or so miles (appart from the 100 drive home) as yet due to the snow etc but we did give it a good blat on saturday, took the roof panel out and have to say it drives very well for what it is, in auto mode it seems a bit sluggish and always wants to be in top gear for some reason so suspect one of the throttle to gearbox linkages or cables is out of adjustment (or maybe they are all like it)in manual overide its a completly different car and I would argue far better than an tiptronic boxster, the 968 changes exactly when you want it too without the normal count to 3 timelapse on most autos, seems to change nice both up and down the box.
Outside, still a good looking car in my opinion, needs the 17" wheels for sure to look its best but a nice shape and sensible size.
Fuel consumption has yet to be tested but imagine 25 ish to be about right.
Some bits like underside of boot carpet foam are starting to show there age but nothing to serious.
Not a bad tool in my opinion if your on a budget.
snapper65 said:
you are right, cabs were only issued in standard spec with leather, elec seats etc. I thought it ws a great, fun drive. Perhaps more of a GT/cruiser than a "proper" sports car, and yes, there was some scuttle shake when cornering hard. I suppose it depends on what you want from your car. I wouldn't have taken the cab on a track, but for daily use I suspect it did most things you'd want from a Sport, plus there was the bonus of having the top down.
Interesting, I wasn't sure about getting a cab even the the OH would like one (although she doesn't drive and it is purely a toy for me - in theory!), but maybe I should try one. I'm used to having no roof after all.probably chalk said:
All that glass and the fact that the car is black means it gets very hot indeed. At Classic Le Mans the other year (blazing sunshine) anything metal in the car got too hot to touch.
I'm beginning to see a theme here. Don't think either of the cars I'm going to see have air con.Thanks again to you all for the info. I'll keep you updated!
A couple of things that might fail on you with little warning, else it's been quite robust so far as a normal 'shopping' car.
DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
fido said:
A couple of things that might fail on you with little warning:-
DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
+1 on all of those DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
stuarte said:
Interesting, I wasn't sure about getting a cab even the the OH would like one (although she doesn't drive and it is purely a toy for me - in theory!), but maybe I should try one. I'm used to having no roof after all.
Cabs really are rarities. I decided a manual was a must-have, and it took me a year to source mine in 2004. Less than 1000 originally imported to the UK (of which 2/3 were tips) and that was 18 yrs ago.adrian crawford has a very good reputation and has this in PH classifieds
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3435584.htm
personally I would never have bought a tip - they seemed to leach all the fun out of it for me - and if youre after a sport you may well feel the same. No harm in having a wee drive tho...
snapper65 said:
Cabs really are rarities. I decided a manual was a must-have, and it took me a year to source mine in 2004. Less than 1000 originally imported to the UK (of which 2/3 were tips) and that was 18 yrs ago.
adrian crawford has a very good reputation and has this in PH classifieds
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3435584.htm
personally I would never have bought a tip - they seemed to leach all the fun out of it for me - and if youre after a sport you may well feel the same. No harm in having a wee drive tho...
Yes, Id seen that advertised and had noticed that most seem to be tips. Good though i'm sure they are, I'm definitely in the market for the 6 speed.adrian crawford has a very good reputation and has this in PH classifieds
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3435584.htm
personally I would never have bought a tip - they seemed to leach all the fun out of it for me - and if youre after a sport you may well feel the same. No harm in having a wee drive tho...
fido said:
A couple of things that might fail on you with little warning, else it's been quite robust so far as a normal 'shopping' car.
DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
Thanks, sounds like good advice. I'll consider getting those sorted at point of sale if that's a possibility.DME relay (either get a spare one or change it)
Clutch master/slave/cable
Coolant thermostat (switches the fan off, or wake up to a flat battery)
With hindsight i would have these changed at some point, rather than leaving myself stranded or having to nurse it to the garage.
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