Working for a small/medium business........
Discussion
I hang around a lot of forums and generally speaking they all have job sections.
One common thing I see crop up often is people being made redundant, treated like s
t, company gone bust etc. A disproprotionate amount seems to be happening in smaller companies. Especially tales of 'I turned up to work, got made redundant, but the boss has set up a pheonix company'.
All of my periods of employment have been with fairly large private companies or public authorities. I didn't make those choices conciously as fr as I can recall.
Hvaing read all of these tales I wonder if I would ever risk working for a small/medium company. I imagine their HR processes and compliance with employment law are more *likely* to be worse than a big business/public authority. I suppose overall there is a higher risk they will go bust or just cut corners to save money.
Its a bit sad really. I do often read of people joining big companies and saying 'I now have lots of scope for progression'. I suppose all it means in the end is that employees move away from small businesses to the safety/opportunities of bigger ones and the bigger ones get bigger. Obviously I appreciate there will be movement the other way.
What do you think?
edited to add - I know in the past few years a lot of small businesses have gone down the pan, but my own dept has had maybe a 15% reduction in number, but at least it was done following proper procedure and no one (as far as I know) was screwed over or felt hard done by.
One common thing I see crop up often is people being made redundant, treated like s
t, company gone bust etc. A disproprotionate amount seems to be happening in smaller companies. Especially tales of 'I turned up to work, got made redundant, but the boss has set up a pheonix company'.All of my periods of employment have been with fairly large private companies or public authorities. I didn't make those choices conciously as fr as I can recall.
Hvaing read all of these tales I wonder if I would ever risk working for a small/medium company. I imagine their HR processes and compliance with employment law are more *likely* to be worse than a big business/public authority. I suppose overall there is a higher risk they will go bust or just cut corners to save money.
Its a bit sad really. I do often read of people joining big companies and saying 'I now have lots of scope for progression'. I suppose all it means in the end is that employees move away from small businesses to the safety/opportunities of bigger ones and the bigger ones get bigger. Obviously I appreciate there will be movement the other way.
What do you think?
edited to add - I know in the past few years a lot of small businesses have gone down the pan, but my own dept has had maybe a 15% reduction in number, but at least it was done following proper procedure and no one (as far as I know) was screwed over or felt hard done by.
Prefer smaller businesses to be honest, I had the option of working for a large global organisation where I was one of many, I didn't like the sound of that and the pay wasn't great either as they assumed everyone would want to work for them.
The upsides of larger companies from looking at me and mates is when they've been made redundant they've had larger payouts, but their careers haven't progressed as much as they thought they had, you could never just walk into a bosses office and try and get a deal thrashed out when you needed to, but they did get better, more defined training
Depends what you want I guess.
The upsides of larger companies from looking at me and mates is when they've been made redundant they've had larger payouts, but their careers haven't progressed as much as they thought they had, you could never just walk into a bosses office and try and get a deal thrashed out when you needed to, but they did get better, more defined training
Depends what you want I guess.
I've worked for big and small; working with bigger ones theoretically gives you more protection and perks but if you want a job with more opportunities to get involved in other aspects of the business, then I think there is a greater chance for that to happen in a smaller business. It can sometimes be "all hands on deck" (subject to skills/qualifications/law) which some may enjoy whilst others may hate. This will also help to give you experience if you either want to set up your own business or move to become managing director of another small company if you are already senior in a small business. (Not that we aren't all already directors of several companies. 
)
)Edited by Hoofy on Monday 20th February 11:41
I've also worked for both small and large businesses.
I used to work for a small family business with less than 15 employees that went into liquidation last year. They had, as you said set up a phoenix company. Whilst the firm I worked for was struggling due to a build up of debts and wasn't helped with the downturn in work, I feel the whole process was an exercise to get rid of a few staff who in the managements mind weren't pulling their weight. Some of the staff had been there 30-40 years so the accountant advised them that due to the redundancy they'd have to pay these people putting the company into liquidation was the best option.
I was asked to go back to work for them but it had been in my mind to leave as I wasn't happy there and with another job to go to I 'left'.
I now work for one of the big supermarkets and I would say that while a lot of the conditions are better to work in - i.e. up to date staff facilities at work, a big support network to fall back on etc but this is also the downfall I feel.
Whilst small companies don't often have a seperate HR manager or department a big company most certainly does and I feel this is where a lot of the hassle there can originate - it's full of people finding stuff to do.
I used to work for a small family business with less than 15 employees that went into liquidation last year. They had, as you said set up a phoenix company. Whilst the firm I worked for was struggling due to a build up of debts and wasn't helped with the downturn in work, I feel the whole process was an exercise to get rid of a few staff who in the managements mind weren't pulling their weight. Some of the staff had been there 30-40 years so the accountant advised them that due to the redundancy they'd have to pay these people putting the company into liquidation was the best option.
I was asked to go back to work for them but it had been in my mind to leave as I wasn't happy there and with another job to go to I 'left'.
I now work for one of the big supermarkets and I would say that while a lot of the conditions are better to work in - i.e. up to date staff facilities at work, a big support network to fall back on etc but this is also the downfall I feel.
Whilst small companies don't often have a seperate HR manager or department a big company most certainly does and I feel this is where a lot of the hassle there can originate - it's full of people finding stuff to do.
As 99.9% of businesses are small, with an average 7 employees per company in the UK, there are bound to be more horror stories with smaller companies.
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/statistics/do...
There are loads of horrors on here about HR departments (which I assume belong to large companies).
The real problem is that small owner managed businesses are owned and run by people DOING the work - too busy doing the work and paying the bills to step back and spend time addressing the HR, Health and Safety, accounts, business plan etc. etc.
From what I have seen, public sector is another bag altogether, where historically the aim of managers has been to build empires in terms of numbers of staff whilst being ignorant of value for money/efficiency. This leads to better contract terms, softer HR departments and more slackers in the public sector.
http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/statistics/do...
There are loads of horrors on here about HR departments (which I assume belong to large companies).
The real problem is that small owner managed businesses are owned and run by people DOING the work - too busy doing the work and paying the bills to step back and spend time addressing the HR, Health and Safety, accounts, business plan etc. etc.
From what I have seen, public sector is another bag altogether, where historically the aim of managers has been to build empires in terms of numbers of staff whilst being ignorant of value for money/efficiency. This leads to better contract terms, softer HR departments and more slackers in the public sector.
HR like many other disciplines is about consistency, efficiency and process. However, whilst there is law, businesses make decisons based on information available. Some decisions are a calculated risk.
I have worked for 2 small businesses with less that 250 people. One was very entrepreneurial and seat of your pants. Employment law might say do X but sometimes a more pragmatic approach gets results faster and sees a better longer term return. The other company was much more risk averse. This was a cultural thing as much as a characteristic of the types of people that worked in that industry/environment.
At the moment I work for a large ish company which is owned by a much bigger multi billion dollar organisation. Now you are into the world of unions, works councils and a culture of employees who 'know' their 'rights'. This requires a totally different approach to handling employment matters.
The other half works in a senior role for a well known high street bank. The amount of pettiness in employee disputes I hear about is astounding. It's almost as if they are a privatised former public sector business.
I have worked for 2 small businesses with less that 250 people. One was very entrepreneurial and seat of your pants. Employment law might say do X but sometimes a more pragmatic approach gets results faster and sees a better longer term return. The other company was much more risk averse. This was a cultural thing as much as a characteristic of the types of people that worked in that industry/environment.
At the moment I work for a large ish company which is owned by a much bigger multi billion dollar organisation. Now you are into the world of unions, works councils and a culture of employees who 'know' their 'rights'. This requires a totally different approach to handling employment matters.
The other half works in a senior role for a well known high street bank. The amount of pettiness in employee disputes I hear about is astounding. It's almost as if they are a privatised former public sector business.
Interesting question. As per other posters I'd say it just depends on the individual business. Small businesses are more at risk of being run by a powerfully built company director with a good idea that turns a profit but little else to commend them. Throw in a bit of a shoulder chip and a complete ignorance/disregard of basic, reasonable employer obligations and it's easy to end up with a string of employment related PH threads or worse.
In theory large companies tend to have all the requisite HR policies and procedures in place and they can usually afford decent staff to implement them properly. Also, management tend to be recruited against tougher criteria so in theory at least the chances of being exposed to a rogue senior idiot is at least reduced though not eliminated. However at the same time this is what makes progression for said idiot more difficult.
To be honest I do not see what is so hard - Even for a small start up if you respect your staff and follow whatever basic procedures you can afford to put in place then 99.9% of employee related issues can be entirely avoided. Employment law can also be circumvented to some extent because employees are more willing to put themselves out to get things done.
So, as long as you choose carefully you should be OK, large or small...
In theory large companies tend to have all the requisite HR policies and procedures in place and they can usually afford decent staff to implement them properly. Also, management tend to be recruited against tougher criteria so in theory at least the chances of being exposed to a rogue senior idiot is at least reduced though not eliminated. However at the same time this is what makes progression for said idiot more difficult.
To be honest I do not see what is so hard - Even for a small start up if you respect your staff and follow whatever basic procedures you can afford to put in place then 99.9% of employee related issues can be entirely avoided. Employment law can also be circumvented to some extent because employees are more willing to put themselves out to get things done.
So, as long as you choose carefully you should be OK, large or small...
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