E60/61 530d or 535d?
Discussion
I'm trying to decide whether to plump for a 530d (or maybe even 525?) or go the whole hog for a 535d, is there much between the two? I'd probably be looking at remapping whatever I end up with, but aside from the power figures, how does the drive differ?
I'm new to all things BMW as I've not owned one since a Z3M roadster back in 2000, so no comparison whatsoever.
I'm new to all things BMW as I've not owned one since a Z3M roadster back in 2000, so no comparison whatsoever.
What is your budget? And what is your annual mileage?
If you want economy, go for a 520d, if you want performance then 535d. Anything in between will be a mix of both, with the 530d a good compromise. Buy an LCI model, so from mid 2007 when the facelift improved the interior and not least the gearbox and engine (ED) with significantly better economy.
If you want economy, go for a 520d, if you want performance then 535d. Anything in between will be a mix of both, with the 530d a good compromise. Buy an LCI model, so from mid 2007 when the facelift improved the interior and not least the gearbox and engine (ED) with significantly better economy.
Had both cars and when on the go there's not a massive difference. The 535 has the slightly gruffer engine and a bit more go. I noticed the biggest difference when moving away from standstill when the 535 was much more responsive. My preference was the 530d with more bits as it 535 was noticeably more expensive to buy.
If you go for a remap be aware that you can get remarkable differences between cars that on the face of it are the same. I used AMD in Thurrock to tweek a 330d (2006 with 231bhp - rolling road said it had 246bhp) and it ended up with 301bhp & 485lb/ft. Bit of a monster... Then had same company do a 530d (2006 with same engine & mileage but rolling road said 226bhp) and that car 'only' got to 276bhp & 410lb/ft. The performance difference was marked.
If you can get access to rolling road before buying....
If you go for a remap be aware that you can get remarkable differences between cars that on the face of it are the same. I used AMD in Thurrock to tweek a 330d (2006 with 231bhp - rolling road said it had 246bhp) and it ended up with 301bhp & 485lb/ft. Bit of a monster... Then had same company do a 530d (2006 with same engine & mileage but rolling road said 226bhp) and that car 'only' got to 276bhp & 410lb/ft. The performance difference was marked.
If you can get access to rolling road before buying....
Few questions you need to ask yourself first...
Would you prefer manual or auto? Auto only on the 535d.
Economy or power, simple really, one is more economical the other more powerful, which would you prefer?
One thing to take note of is the turbo reliability, any fuel and purchase savings you make could be wiped out in an instant. Turbo reliablity is not so good on the x20d or x30d, x35d however have been fine from what I gather. This is apparently down to the x35d having two FIXED vane turbos rather than the variable vane on the x20d and x30d.
Bryan.
Would you prefer manual or auto? Auto only on the 535d.
Economy or power, simple really, one is more economical the other more powerful, which would you prefer?
One thing to take note of is the turbo reliability, any fuel and purchase savings you make could be wiped out in an instant. Turbo reliablity is not so good on the x20d or x30d, x35d however have been fine from what I gather. This is apparently down to the x35d having two FIXED vane turbos rather than the variable vane on the x20d and x30d.
Bryan.
I think you need to think carefully about remapping a 530d manual. As I understand it BMW don't offer the 535d as a manual because it doesn't cope with the high levels of torque. A remapped 530d can result in an engine that kicks out somewhat more than the bog standard 535d.
Haven't experience much by way of reliability problems. Was told you need to use good quality oil and make sure it's changed regularly - I did mine every 6k miles rather than the 15 - 20k shown on the service indicator. Kind of ruined any arguement for improved economy but not the reason I did it in the first place.
Haven't experience much by way of reliability problems. Was told you need to use good quality oil and make sure it's changed regularly - I did mine every 6k miles rather than the 15 - 20k shown on the service indicator. Kind of ruined any arguement for improved economy but not the reason I did it in the first place.
Very good point regarding remapping a manual, been there done that and got the t-shirt. It's not so much the gearbox but the clutch and flywheel that can't cope with the torque. The more you look into the reliability issues the more the odds go in the 535d's favour, it seems other than fuel they are the cheaper car out of the two to run for any significant amount of time.
Going through all this has actually got me looking back into, dare I say it, the that shall not be named on PH, a 335d. I had been looking at a 335i but turbo and HPFP problems are putting me off slightly. I just don't know, I convince myself a 335d would be the safer bet, and then I remember what a 335i sounds like and forget all of that.
Apologies for going off topic slightly OP.
Bryan.
Going through all this has actually got me looking back into, dare I say it, the that shall not be named on PH, a 335d. I had been looking at a 335i but turbo and HPFP problems are putting me off slightly. I just don't know, I convince myself a 335d would be the safer bet, and then I remember what a 335i sounds like and forget all of that.
Apologies for going off topic slightly OP.
Bryan.
Ive a 5 series touring things to watch for and very annoying;
Rear hatch, remote locking, and everything associated with it like preset radio, seat position etc all goes to pot because of the wires in the tailgate wearing away. Ive yet to get mine fixed, somedays its fine others... well.
Other annoyance, rear suspension air pipes wear / corrode so it doesnt pump up to right level - result is rear tyres absolutely down to canvas in no time at all - run flats are 180 - 200 each.
Other than the above and crappy fuel economy when cold its loads better day to day than my m coupe I had before :-). Certainly not a performance car tho.
Rear hatch, remote locking, and everything associated with it like preset radio, seat position etc all goes to pot because of the wires in the tailgate wearing away. Ive yet to get mine fixed, somedays its fine others... well.
Other annoyance, rear suspension air pipes wear / corrode so it doesnt pump up to right level - result is rear tyres absolutely down to canvas in no time at all - run flats are 180 - 200 each.
Other than the above and crappy fuel economy when cold its loads better day to day than my m coupe I had before :-). Certainly not a performance car tho.
Thanks for your replies. Cars currently grabbing my attention are:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3465281.htm
And
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3566948.htm
Pros and cons of both please?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3465281.htm
And
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3566948.htm
Pros and cons of both please?
Both nice looking cars but both pre-2007 face lift / efficient dynamics introduction. The 530d is the early 218bhp engine - later 2006 models got 231 bhp. Careful searching and the same budget as the 535d would get you a either a 2007/8 efficient dynamics 530d SE with 235bhp and 42-44mpg with the nicer interior or a 2006 530d M Sport with the 231 bhp engine.
If the 535d is your final choice then the car you're looking at looks pretty good - sat nav does help resale.
If the 535d is your final choice then the car you're looking at looks pretty good - sat nav does help resale.
To answer the previous questions, budget is around 11k ideally but I'm considering the cars above so am willing to stretch that if necessary. I'll be covering around 15k miles per annum, 75% of which will be at 60-80mph and I prefer the feel of a turbo'd car so diesel is the way for me. Also, with a much shorter rev range I can't understand why anyone would want a manual (consumption aside) so auto it is. On a similar note, I'd want the smoothness of a 6cyl so the 520 is out too.
Is the engine the same in the 525, 530, 535? Is it just the ancillaries that differ?
pointedstarman said:
Both nice looking cars but both pre-2007 face lift / efficient dynamics introduction. The 530d is the early 218bhp engine - later 2006 models got 231 bhp. Careful searching and the same budget as the 535d would get you a either a 2007/8 efficient dynamics 530d SE with 235bhp and 42-44mpg with the nicer interior or a 2006 530d M Sport with the 231 bhp engine.
Thanks for that. My personal view is that a non Sport car will suffer far worse from the dreaded depreciation so I'd prefer an older Sport with same spec over a newer SE (plus the desirability of that model for me). Also 23bhp difference is not really going to be noticeable on the daily commute so I'd not be concerned with that either. Road tax is less for a pre-LCI also so I understand, is that true?Is the engine the same in the 525, 530, 535? Is it just the ancillaries that differ?
Would urge you to go for an LCI or at the very least go and have a look/drive in both a pre-LCI and LCI model to find out for yourself if the improvements are worth paying for.
I would prefer a 525D/530D LCI to a pre-LCI 530D/535D. IMO the extra outlay for an LCI model will come back at resale time + you get the improved consumption throughout your ownership.
I would prefer a 525D/530D LCI to a pre-LCI 530D/535D. IMO the extra outlay for an LCI model will come back at resale time + you get the improved consumption throughout your ownership.
rassi said:
Would urge you to go for an LCI or at the very least go and have a look/drive in both a pre-LCI and LCI model to find out for yourself if the improvements are worth paying for.
I would prefer a 525D/530D LCI to a pre-LCI 530D/535D. IMO the extra outlay for an LCI model will come back at resale time + you get the improved consumption throughout your ownership.
I'm intrigued, minor cosmetic alterations and minor engine change aside, why would you specifically pay the extra for an LCI car?I would prefer a 525D/530D LCI to a pre-LCI 530D/535D. IMO the extra outlay for an LCI model will come back at resale time + you get the improved consumption throughout your ownership.
scratch pervert said:
I've looked at your car a few times SP, but the mileage means that after just 1 year I'd be at the mental 'too old' milestone of 100k miles and the residuals would be terrible by the end of my 2-3 years ownership. Lovely car I'm sure, and perfect for someone using it rarely but I need a mile muncher and so I'm looking for <60k ideally.Noted on the M Sport model - better looks (though I personally was never fussed by the standard milled metal effect dash trim) but it does limit what you can get for your budget. There should nevertheless be a few 530d's that are post 2006 with the higher output. I pointed out the difference as you mentioned remapping & the 231bhp remapped could give you 25 - 30 bhp more than the 218bhp engine once tweeked an that would be noticeable....
If the odd few bhp (tweeked or otherwise) are not so much of an issue try the post 07 525d with the newer engine (195bhp & 295 lb/ft). You should be able to finnd an M Sport in your budget and you'll get greatly improved mpg and about £70 less on the road tax. Remapped this would give similar or slightly better performance than the standard 530d.
Re the 525/530/535 I don't think there's a great deal of difference on the basic engine (for the efficient dynamics versions) though the turbo systems differ significantly. Engines aside IMHO the post 07 cars had the much better interior and nicer exterior lighting.
As a final thought and picking up on an earlier comment pre efficient dynamics cars are likely to get hit harder by depreciation as time passes as they have much higher CO2 and running costs.
If the odd few bhp (tweeked or otherwise) are not so much of an issue try the post 07 525d with the newer engine (195bhp & 295 lb/ft). You should be able to finnd an M Sport in your budget and you'll get greatly improved mpg and about £70 less on the road tax. Remapped this would give similar or slightly better performance than the standard 530d.
Re the 525/530/535 I don't think there's a great deal of difference on the basic engine (for the efficient dynamics versions) though the turbo systems differ significantly. Engines aside IMHO the post 07 cars had the much better interior and nicer exterior lighting.
As a final thought and picking up on an earlier comment pre efficient dynamics cars are likely to get hit harder by depreciation as time passes as they have much higher CO2 and running costs.
Don't have images to hand but briefly the gear lever if totally different (and come to think of it so is the gearbox which post ED is a 7 speed and betters the earlier 6 speed); the seats are better; the door trim is different; the facia trim is different as is the centre stereo controls. Also, about 2008 the iDrive controls were improved with a number of pre set buttons. I'm sure there's more but can't hink of them at the mo.
In short, in typical BMW fashion, the revisions individually were relatively minor but added up to a better whole.
In short, in typical BMW fashion, the revisions individually were relatively minor but added up to a better whole.
pointedstarman said:
Noted on the M Sport model - better looks (though I personally was never fussed by the standard milled metal effect dash trim) but it does limit what you can get for your budget. There should nevertheless be a few 530d's that are post 2006 with the higher output. I pointed out the difference as you mentioned remapping & the 231bhp remapped could give you 25 - 30 bhp more than the 218bhp engine once tweeked an that would be noticeable....
If the odd few bhp (tweeked or otherwise) are not so much of an issue try the post 07 525d with the newer engine (195bhp & 295 lb/ft). You should be able to finnd an M Sport in your budget and you'll get greatly improved mpg and about £70 less on the road tax. Remapped this would give similar or slightly better performance than the standard 530d.
Re the 525/530/535 I don't think there's a great deal of difference on the basic engine (for the efficient dynamics versions) though the turbo systems differ significantly. Engines aside IMHO the post 07 cars had the much better interior and nicer exterior lighting.
As a final thought and picking up on an earlier comment pre efficient dynamics cars are likely to get hit harder by depreciation as time passes as they have much higher CO2 and running costs.
So something like this then?If the odd few bhp (tweeked or otherwise) are not so much of an issue try the post 07 525d with the newer engine (195bhp & 295 lb/ft). You should be able to finnd an M Sport in your budget and you'll get greatly improved mpg and about £70 less on the road tax. Remapped this would give similar or slightly better performance than the standard 530d.
Re the 525/530/535 I don't think there's a great deal of difference on the basic engine (for the efficient dynamics versions) though the turbo systems differ significantly. Engines aside IMHO the post 07 cars had the much better interior and nicer exterior lighting.
As a final thought and picking up on an earlier comment pre efficient dynamics cars are likely to get hit harder by depreciation as time passes as they have much higher CO2 and running costs.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
Significantly dearer though, I wonder whether I should wait another year to let the F10 establish further and then pursue an LCI car......?
If a 525d would fit the bill they are around -
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
If you really want the 535d then they do seem to go for much more than 530's and 525's of that vintage so I'd go for the one you'd already spotted.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2012...
If you really want the 535d then they do seem to go for much more than 530's and 525's of that vintage so I'd go for the one you'd already spotted.
The LCI uses the same 6 speed transmission as the pre LCI (ZF 6HP26) but has an electronic shifter instead of a manual one.
A detailed list of changes are here. http://www.5series.net/information/2008_LCI_Detail...
A detailed list of changes are here. http://www.5series.net/information/2008_LCI_Detail...
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