Heathrow - BA - bunch of......
Discussion
Well ladies and gentlemen, I write this from the aircraft seat I have been sat if for the last 5 and a half hours.
Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
Skellen said:
Well ladies and gentlemen, I write this from the aircraft seat I have been sat if for the last 5 and a half hours.
Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
But are your customers lives in your hands?Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
I agree that the UK is useless when a little bit of snow falls... But I'd say very little of it is actually BAs fault is it?
Hope you get going soon though, I'm about to leave the US in 45 mins and flying into heathrow.... Fingers crossed its open by mid morning!
El Capitano said:
Skellen said:
Well ladies and gentlemen, I write this from the aircraft seat I have been sat if for the last 5 and a half hours.
Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
But are your customers lives in your hands?Ordinarily I would associate this period of containment against my will with the benefit of arriving at a destination or at least making some progress toward it. Not the case tonight....
Having been told by BA this afternoon that our flight was definitely leaving and that we would be well ahead of the weather, we checkied in as usual and boarded the plane,
Silence for hours with vain hopes and prospects of being de-iced, getting in further crew to prevent us going out of hours.
We've now been told that we have been cancelled d but will have to wait at least another hour, possibly more while they "find crew to get us unloaded".......
Coupled to that I have the issue that the valet park company (operated by BAA) isn't answering it's emergency phone, so now we can't get our car back....
So having spent over 6k on tickets we have travelled exactly 1 mile around the airport, in a period of what will be over 5 hours in the end.
If I was this incompetent with my customers I would be out of a job in 5 minutes.....
I agree that the UK is useless when a little bit of snow falls... But I'd say very little of it is actually BAs fault is it?
Hope you get going soon though, I'm about to leave the US in 45 mins and flying into heathrow.... Fingers crossed its open by mid morning!
No we have been cancelled. Heathrow will be inbound only for tomorrow morning at least - everyone be wary of travelling.....
Skellen, you are right. BA and BAA are both wholly incompetent organisations. Realistically, both have known of the dowturn in weather conditions for many days, AND, it's winter for heavens sake; so they should have no excuses for f
king-up yet again. I hope you were insured and get your money back.
But you do know...it's not just the above two organisations. The large majority of UK Co's/Orgs are absolutely piss-poor when it comes to management and genuinely getting things done. Sadly, the days have long gone since customer service and system efficiency was a natural 'given' to the client.
On a much smaller scale, our local council sub-contracted recycling people are supposed to collect each week. On would have thought a simple and regular process, not much organisation required, simply arrive at private property, collect and empty 3no recycling boxes. Two weeks ago they failed to collect. Last week they failed to collect. I contact the West Oxon Council people who apologise and promise they will be emptied the same day; Friday. Surprise-surpise, am still waiting for the bins to be emptied whilst the food recycling box is fermenting nicely; somedays I could give up
king-up yet again. I hope you were insured and get your money back.But you do know...it's not just the above two organisations. The large majority of UK Co's/Orgs are absolutely piss-poor when it comes to management and genuinely getting things done. Sadly, the days have long gone since customer service and system efficiency was a natural 'given' to the client.
On a much smaller scale, our local council sub-contracted recycling people are supposed to collect each week. On would have thought a simple and regular process, not much organisation required, simply arrive at private property, collect and empty 3no recycling boxes. Two weeks ago they failed to collect. Last week they failed to collect. I contact the West Oxon Council people who apologise and promise they will be emptied the same day; Friday. Surprise-surpise, am still waiting for the bins to be emptied whilst the food recycling box is fermenting nicely; somedays I could give up
Is it really BA's fault? There have been delays on flights throughout Europe due to the snow, the runway has to be cleared etc.
Is it only BAs flights that have been affected? If not unlikely to be thier fault! The BBC suggests that people got stuck on the M40 for several hours last night near High Wycombe which isnt too far away, and apparently there were delays at Heathrow caused by a lack of visibility. Problem with snow its very difficult to predict exactly what its going to do!
Is it only BAs flights that have been affected? If not unlikely to be thier fault! The BBC suggests that people got stuck on the M40 for several hours last night near High Wycombe which isnt too far away, and apparently there were delays at Heathrow caused by a lack of visibility. Problem with snow its very difficult to predict exactly what its going to do!
Edited by Chrisgr31 on Sunday 5th February 07:49
Obviously BAA and BA aren't the same company. BAA are Spanish owned IIRC.
I'm going to guess that you're on a long haul flight? De-icing is provided as a service by BAA and it is a case of first come first served. If there is a delay it's out of the control of the airline. On a long haul trip, depending on where you're going, crew hours can be quite tight. As delays roll on it will impact on crew hours. It sounds like BA anticipated this and tried to search for another crew. It's not an excuse, but I'd imagine it's quite difficult to find a well rested crew in the early hours of Sunday morning.
There comes a point when further delays will impact on flights in a domino effect so airlines will tend to remove one domino so that doesn't happen. LHR is running at capacity and there is next to no slack in the system. It really needed the expansion for the airport, airlines and the UK IMO. That didn't happen due to short sighted political decision-making :-). Frankfurt have recently opened their 4th runway, but I digress.
It's not a perfect system, but what would you have done differently? Did the airline give you enough information? The ground crew situation isn't perfect and I'm sure it'll be addressed in the near future. I do wonder how many crews are on hand at that time of day when LHR is usually closed.
I'm going to guess that you're on a long haul flight? De-icing is provided as a service by BAA and it is a case of first come first served. If there is a delay it's out of the control of the airline. On a long haul trip, depending on where you're going, crew hours can be quite tight. As delays roll on it will impact on crew hours. It sounds like BA anticipated this and tried to search for another crew. It's not an excuse, but I'd imagine it's quite difficult to find a well rested crew in the early hours of Sunday morning.
There comes a point when further delays will impact on flights in a domino effect so airlines will tend to remove one domino so that doesn't happen. LHR is running at capacity and there is next to no slack in the system. It really needed the expansion for the airport, airlines and the UK IMO. That didn't happen due to short sighted political decision-making :-). Frankfurt have recently opened their 4th runway, but I digress.
It's not a perfect system, but what would you have done differently? Did the airline give you enough information? The ground crew situation isn't perfect and I'm sure it'll be addressed in the near future. I do wonder how many crews are on hand at that time of day when LHR is usually closed.
Chrisgr31 said:
Is it really BA's fault? There have been delays on flights throughout Europe due to the snow, the runway has to be cleared etc.Is it only BAs flights that have been affected? If not unlikely to be thier fault! The BBC suggests that people got stuck on the M40 for several hours last night near High Wycombe which isnt too far away, and apparently there were delays at Heathrow caused by a lack of visibility. Problem with snow its very difficult to predict exactly what its going to do!
That's just it; snow is NOT difficult to predict. We have extraordinary technology that accurately forecasts snowfalls. Therefore, if an organisation knows it's going to snow it takes appropriate measures. Have just reviewed BBC news on M40...100 cars stuck for 3 hours! This, after transport minister states on Radio4 + Oxfordshire County Council representative states on regional news that, "This years snow will not cause a problem. We have learnt from previous years and have all the necessary gritting lorries and snow ploughs in place and ready." Clearly they were either mis-informing the public, not telling the truth, or have no grip on their management operations; otherwise 100 cars would not have been stuck on the M40...the 5-or so cm of snow would have been cleared.Edited by Chrisgr31 on Sunday 5th February 07:49
MuffDaddy said:
BA boarded us at 7 this morning and then announced we would be delayed for two hours whilst the de icer trucks were filled up. Still no sign of them so far.
Glad I made the 120 mile journey to catch this flight, I have an 11
Sounds reasonable.Glad I made the 120 mile journey to catch this flight, I have an 11
Once de-iced the aircraft has a finite period of time in which to depart before the fluid is no longer effective and has to be applied again. If you de-ice before pax are on board that eats into this time (holdover time) and increases the chances of the whole process being repeated. The de-icing rigs are controlled by BAA and are the only service provider that BA can use at LHR.
As I said earlier, LHR is at capacity. Any disruption, no matter how small, will cause delays there. A good solution in this case would be de-icing bays just before the departure runway. This would reduce the 'holdover time' but there would still be departure delays due to lack of capacity at the airport.
The solution is a large infrastructure change at LHR and an increase in capacity. Although not perfect, it would help to minimise these delays, but wouldn't eradicate them totally.
v8250 said:
That's just it; snow is NOT difficult to predict.
Yes it is. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard it's definately going to snow in the next couple of days....actually it's going to arrive the day after that....no, definately by the end of the week now. Weather forecasts cannot be trusted.v8250 said:
...100 cars would not have been stuck on the M40 in the 5-or so cm of snow would have been cleared.
There's your problem right there. How the fk does anyone get stuck in 5cm of snow unless you're driving a scalextric car?! Nobody can keep the roads 100% clear of any and all snow. For people to be getting stuck in that is pathetic. Hardly the council's fault.To be fair to Heathrow, its running at max capacity. And on a knife edge. Any slight disruption can mean long delays, and often does. The CAA say aircraft cannot operate from contaminated runways, so airports have to close and clear the runways. This can mean diversions for inbound aircraft and long delays for outbound aircraft, with crews running out of hours they are able to work. And I suspect the airlines are having terrible difficulty getting fresh crews in this morning, due to the snow. The whole system is run on a knife edge to cut costs, and 99% of the time it works. The trouble is when something goes wrong, it tends to go very wrong.
jonnyb said:
To be fair to Heathrow, its running at max capacity. And on a knife edge. Any slight disruption can mean long delays, and often does. The CAA say aircraft cannot operate from contaminated runways, so airports have to close and clear the runways. This can mean diversions for inbound aircraft and long delays for outbound aircraft, with crews running out of hours they are able to work. And I suspect the airlines are having terrible difficulty getting fresh crews in this morning, due to the snow. The whole system is run on a knife edge to cut costs, and 99% of the time it works. The trouble is when something goes wrong, it tends to go very wrong.
The fact that's is one of the busiest airports in the world also means it's one of the richest airports in teh world. Therefore no excuses whatsoever not to have top of the range infrustructure to deal with any situation, including an inch of snow.Silver993tt said:
jonnyb said:
To be fair to Heathrow, its running at max capacity. And on a knife edge. Any slight disruption can mean long delays, and often does. The CAA say aircraft cannot operate from contaminated runways, so airports have to close and clear the runways. This can mean diversions for inbound aircraft and long delays for outbound aircraft, with crews running out of hours they are able to work. And I suspect the airlines are having terrible difficulty getting fresh crews in this morning, due to the snow. The whole system is run on a knife edge to cut costs, and 99% of the time it works. The trouble is when something goes wrong, it tends to go very wrong.
The fact that's is one of the busiest airports in the world also means it's one of the richest airports in teh world. Therefore no excuses whatsoever not to have top of the range infrustructure to deal with any situation, including an inch of snow.Gassing Station | Holidays & Travel | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff