Williams & McLaren – end of an era?
Discussion
I know it’s early days yet but I thought I’d just throw this one in as devils advocate:
Does anyone think that McLaren and Williams are becoming a spent force in F1? They dominated the sport through the 80’s and 90’s but haven’t done much since then. Now I know Ferrari have dominated the sport for the past 5 years but it seems to be Renault and BAR that are taking the fight to Ferrari and Williams and McLaren aren’t closing the gap much at all.
I’m just thinking of the way great teams such as Tyrrell (sp?) and Lotus went. Both enjoyed success in the 70’s and 80’s only to fade away in the early 90’s. Could William’s and McLaren be going the same way?
>>> Edited by t1grm on Monday 5th July 16:02
Does anyone think that McLaren and Williams are becoming a spent force in F1? They dominated the sport through the 80’s and 90’s but haven’t done much since then. Now I know Ferrari have dominated the sport for the past 5 years but it seems to be Renault and BAR that are taking the fight to Ferrari and Williams and McLaren aren’t closing the gap much at all.
I’m just thinking of the way great teams such as Tyrrell (sp?) and Lotus went. Both enjoyed success in the 70’s and 80’s only to fade away in the early 90’s. Could William’s and McLaren be going the same way?
>>> Edited by t1grm on Monday 5th July 16:02
I would be very surprised if the powers that be in F1 would let that happen. In the present F1 climate, they are very mindful of the 'tourist teams' of the big manufacturers who come, throw money at it, get it wrong and start looking at jacking it in, which is very unhealthy for F1. Dedicated teams like Williams and McLaren are good for F1, regardless of how they're doing.
It also depends on how you define 'fading away'. While they're not doing so well on the grid these days, they are still doing OK in terms of making money as a marketing exercise (at least for now since the two are eventually linked). If it continued they might stop their F1 operations, but they have their fingers in a lot more pies than that, so I don't think they would go out of business altogether, just perhaps downsize and lose a bit of notoriety, a bit like Lola.
It also depends on how you define 'fading away'. While they're not doing so well on the grid these days, they are still doing OK in terms of making money as a marketing exercise (at least for now since the two are eventually linked). If it continued they might stop their F1 operations, but they have their fingers in a lot more pies than that, so I don't think they would go out of business altogether, just perhaps downsize and lose a bit of notoriety, a bit like Lola.
Well, stranger things have happened but I think they'll be around for a good while yet.
Everything is cyclical and it has been said on more than one occassion that to see the "true" level of Ferrari, look at Rubens. In otherwords, take Schummacher out of the equation and you have a pretty level playing field between BAR, Renault, Williams and to a lesser extent, McLaren.
The key factors at Williams and McLaren is Frank and Ron. Although the latter's involvement is a little diluted from what it was - he's still the boss and it's his vision that guides the team.
Everything is cyclical and it has been said on more than one occassion that to see the "true" level of Ferrari, look at Rubens. In otherwords, take Schummacher out of the equation and you have a pretty level playing field between BAR, Renault, Williams and to a lesser extent, McLaren.
The key factors at Williams and McLaren is Frank and Ron. Although the latter's involvement is a little diluted from what it was - he's still the boss and it's his vision that guides the team.
The British teams traditionally have had a strong "founder/owner" at the helm. Once the owner sells up (or dies), the teams often loses its inspiration and motivation. I think that when Ron Dennis and Frank Williams eventually drop out of the equation, their teams may sink or, more likely, transform themselves into a "corporate" team aling the lines of Ferrari (which more or less followed this route after Enzo Ferrari died in 1988).
However, I do not think that these "corporate " setups are that good for the "sport". For a start, because they are led and controlled from boardrooms rather than by an entusiastic individual, some of the passion goes - and decisions are much more "logical". No doubt, this setup appears to be working for Ferrari (at the moment) but, in the long run, it's the enthusasitic individuals who provide the spirit that keeps team going. When all the teams on the grid are corporate offshoots of FIAT, Ford, Mercedes, Toyota et al, F1 will just be a coprporate marketing exercise - as it is largely becoming. And the "sport" will be dead.
However, I do not think that these "corporate " setups are that good for the "sport". For a start, because they are led and controlled from boardrooms rather than by an entusiastic individual, some of the passion goes - and decisions are much more "logical". No doubt, this setup appears to be working for Ferrari (at the moment) but, in the long run, it's the enthusasitic individuals who provide the spirit that keeps team going. When all the teams on the grid are corporate offshoots of FIAT, Ford, Mercedes, Toyota et al, F1 will just be a coprporate marketing exercise - as it is largely becoming. And the "sport" will be dead.
Eric Mc said:
However, I do not think that these "corporate " setups are that good for the "sport".
Agree - as is being seen at Jaguar and Toyota at present.
Whilst you are also correct that Ferrari retain that passion element, least we not forget that they are still funded by FIAT, a technically bancrupt company. As soon as Shummi goes and the winning becomes less frequent, nervous twitches will be eminating from Milan boardrooms.
steviebee said:
The key factors at Williams and McLaren is Frank and Ron. Although the latter's involvement is a little diluted from what it was - he's still the boss and it's his vision that guides the team.
Could it be this dilution is the root cause of the MacLaren poor performance? Also Williams have had the spectre of the Senna litigation hanging over them.
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