Interesting...
Discussion
I bought a used 997.1 last week, and the engine light came on over the weekend. I spoke to the dealer who sounded like they expected it, so have done a bit more research and it turns out they were notified of this when it was serviced by a local specialist. I've spoken to him and he tells me it's due to the sports cats that have been fitted - they're causing the lambda sensor to throw up a code causing the light to come on. He says the only way to resolve it is with a remap. They don't do them though so he's not trying to sell me something...
Any idea where I stand with the supplying dealer? Sale of goods if he stands his ground?
Any idea where I stand with the supplying dealer? Sale of goods if he stands his ground?
Phucker said:
Get a snagging list and give the garage the opportunity to put it right
+1Look at http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problems...
Oh and make sure you document every conversation / letter / email etc that you have just in case things don't get resolved to your satisfaction. Sadly I have been in that situation...
It sounds very feasible, ie it's something that does happen with sports cats and isn't a fault, just the light getting triggered by unexpected emissions.
I'd be interested to know if a remap would solve it, but I guess it would have to be a bespoke one on a rolling road so fitting standard cats would perhaps be a more sensible solution if you can't live with the light being on (and why sould you).
I'd be interested to know if a remap would solve it, but I guess it would have to be a bespoke one on a rolling road so fitting standard cats would perhaps be a more sensible solution if you can't live with the light being on (and why sould you).
Well after numerous attempts to rectify this, the engine warning light is still on. They've tried, and failed, and now I'm left with a Porsche that has an engine warning light on. I know it's not actually a major issue, but obviously trying to tell that to someone the day I decide to sell is another story...
So, what are my options now from a legal perspective? The car was sold by the garage with prior knowledge that there was an issue (the specialist that serviced it prior to me collecting it confirms this) so can I still go down the not fit for purpose route?
So, what are my options now from a legal perspective? The car was sold by the garage with prior knowledge that there was an issue (the specialist that serviced it prior to me collecting it confirms this) so can I still go down the not fit for purpose route?
An engine light for an exit lambda sensor is a relatively benign thing. However, if your light is always on then you may miss other reasons which may cause the light to come on - e.g. Engine cam timing issues, etc. Probably a material consideration in case the dealer is saying 'don't worry about it and drive it with the light always on'
Did they try a O2 sensor spacer? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OXYGEN-LAMBDA-O2-SENSOR-...
I would say the supplying dealer is well out of order, and has the responsibility of changing the cats back to standard. Did his representation of the car at point of sale say a engine management light would come on and he knew why. I think not 
Edited by Lordglenmorangie on Saturday 7th April 16:17
To the OP - were you made aware that the car had a non-standard exhaust before purchase? If you were aware of this, and bought the car as such, you might have an issue with getting the supplying trader to do much about it. Assuming you were aware of the exhaust, going into a potentially ugly, costly and lengthy confrontation/legal battle with the supplier - one that you might not even win - is probably not a good solution. Choose your battles!
Much simpler might be to discover the make of the aftermarket exhaust and to discuss the CEL (Check Engine Light) issues with its manufacturer. Many aftermarket exhaust manufacturers weld nameplates to their exhausts - this will help you identify what you have. In addition, the make/model of the catalyser cans the exhaust manufacturer has used will likely be stamped on the wall of the catalyser itself (certainly is for HJS) to further help identification. Posting pics of the exhaust on here might also help. Almost certainly, the manufacturer (assuming it's one of the well-known ones) will have a solution to your CEL problem - otherwise they would be out of business very quickly.
As correctly stated above, 200-cell cats (usually German HJS units in aftermarket exhausts for this car) work fine with the standard mapping and don't usually cause CELs. With the notable exception of Europipe that designed them very well, 100-cell are often absolutely borderline - the ECU has a range of values that are acceptable for post-cat gas analysis (as reported by the post-cat lambdas) and a badly designed 100-cell implementation can cause the actual values to fall outside this range. The ECU then assumes the cats are faulty and the CEL comes-on. The use of a post-cat lambda spacer (as also suggested above) can slightly alter the value the post-cat lambdas report to the ECU, tipping it back into range and stopping the ECU from complaining. A 'remap' in this circumstance just means changing the acceptable values table to include the likely range the post-cat lambdas will report with the 100-cell cats installed.
Other possibilites include faulty exhaust fitment - any air leaks will potentially cause havoc. It's also possible that the cats have simply 'failed' and need replacement. The manufacturer (or their local agent) should be able to help here. If the cats are 100-cell and working properly, but you still get CELs, another solution might be to obtain 200-cell cat sections from the exhaust manufacturer to replace the 100-cell ones on the car. The performance delta between 100- and 200-cell cats is negligible, but the problems thay can create, for road use, are oceans apart. (MOT anyone)?
IMHO, it's definitely worth keeping free-flow cats as they are one of the very few, bolt-on tuning mods that work on the 997 (ask me how I know)! A well-designed full exhaust (manifolds, cats, silencers) on this car is capable of giving a 20-25 BHP improvement (Carrera S) or a 10-15 BHP improvement (Carrera) with much stronger mid-range torque. Some detective work, together with a bit of digging and talking with the exhaust's manufacturer ought to be well worth the time spent. You should end-up with a car that performs and sounds significantly better than standard.
Best of luck.
Much simpler might be to discover the make of the aftermarket exhaust and to discuss the CEL (Check Engine Light) issues with its manufacturer. Many aftermarket exhaust manufacturers weld nameplates to their exhausts - this will help you identify what you have. In addition, the make/model of the catalyser cans the exhaust manufacturer has used will likely be stamped on the wall of the catalyser itself (certainly is for HJS) to further help identification. Posting pics of the exhaust on here might also help. Almost certainly, the manufacturer (assuming it's one of the well-known ones) will have a solution to your CEL problem - otherwise they would be out of business very quickly.
As correctly stated above, 200-cell cats (usually German HJS units in aftermarket exhausts for this car) work fine with the standard mapping and don't usually cause CELs. With the notable exception of Europipe that designed them very well, 100-cell are often absolutely borderline - the ECU has a range of values that are acceptable for post-cat gas analysis (as reported by the post-cat lambdas) and a badly designed 100-cell implementation can cause the actual values to fall outside this range. The ECU then assumes the cats are faulty and the CEL comes-on. The use of a post-cat lambda spacer (as also suggested above) can slightly alter the value the post-cat lambdas report to the ECU, tipping it back into range and stopping the ECU from complaining. A 'remap' in this circumstance just means changing the acceptable values table to include the likely range the post-cat lambdas will report with the 100-cell cats installed.
Other possibilites include faulty exhaust fitment - any air leaks will potentially cause havoc. It's also possible that the cats have simply 'failed' and need replacement. The manufacturer (or their local agent) should be able to help here. If the cats are 100-cell and working properly, but you still get CELs, another solution might be to obtain 200-cell cat sections from the exhaust manufacturer to replace the 100-cell ones on the car. The performance delta between 100- and 200-cell cats is negligible, but the problems thay can create, for road use, are oceans apart. (MOT anyone)?
IMHO, it's definitely worth keeping free-flow cats as they are one of the very few, bolt-on tuning mods that work on the 997 (ask me how I know)! A well-designed full exhaust (manifolds, cats, silencers) on this car is capable of giving a 20-25 BHP improvement (Carrera S) or a 10-15 BHP improvement (Carrera) with much stronger mid-range torque. Some detective work, together with a bit of digging and talking with the exhaust's manufacturer ought to be well worth the time spent. You should end-up with a car that performs and sounds significantly better than standard.
Best of luck.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Saturday 7th April 11:20
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