What's the Appeal?
Discussion
Classic Grad 98 said:
If this is all true!? Then my overriding thought is someone else deserves your job! Perhaps you can get a job at enterprise rent-a-car so you'll get to drive exciting and practical modern cars instead!?
:dispair:
This:dispair:
Give me your job!
If you need to ask yourself those kind of things than you obviously don't hold the same passion or love that these "old men" obviously do.
tbid said:
Now the question I have is; Why do old men buy these cars?! Fair enough they're Icons of past era's and marvels of design but some of them are quite frankly painful and unexciting to drive! They can empty your wallet 10 fold faster than your wife & Have a tendency to go wrong at the most awkward moments, I just can't really understand the mentality of people that buy these kinds of car, Anyone care to share there thoughts?
Because it's just better. I don't see how you can find them boring to drive. Boring to drive is a 1.0 CVT equipped Micra. Risking fiery death every time you take a corner is cool. 
You drive a classic while you merely pilot a modern car.
I'm kind of surprised you don't 'get it' as you work in a place that specialises in them. Maybe you're new, if so give it a few months and you'll understand
I own two cars that one could argue are the two best riding cars ever devised - a Citroen DS and a modern Range Rover. However, they couldn't be more different.
A pleasant ride and comfortable seats is all that these two cars share. The RR has double the power, an auto box and electric heated everything. However, while my respect for the RR is boundless the driving experience is about as involving as discussing the finer points of piston development in the 20th century with a newborn baby.
Driving the DS is the exact opposite. It has 4 (badly spaced) pedals, a dogleg 5 speed column shift with limited syncro, needs warming up, fettling, coaxing from cold and a million and one other little eccentricities that makes it mine. Things that I just know after miles of being in it. It is like seducing your wife of X years. You know what makes her tick, what to do and when to get the result you're after.
Just wait, it'll come and when it does you can watch your own wallet wince at the onslaught
I'm kind of surprised you don't 'get it' as you work in a place that specialises in them. Maybe you're new, if so give it a few months and you'll understand
I own two cars that one could argue are the two best riding cars ever devised - a Citroen DS and a modern Range Rover. However, they couldn't be more different.
A pleasant ride and comfortable seats is all that these two cars share. The RR has double the power, an auto box and electric heated everything. However, while my respect for the RR is boundless the driving experience is about as involving as discussing the finer points of piston development in the 20th century with a newborn baby.
Driving the DS is the exact opposite. It has 4 (badly spaced) pedals, a dogleg 5 speed column shift with limited syncro, needs warming up, fettling, coaxing from cold and a million and one other little eccentricities that makes it mine. Things that I just know after miles of being in it. It is like seducing your wife of X years. You know what makes her tick, what to do and when to get the result you're after.
Just wait, it'll come and when it does you can watch your own wallet wince at the onslaught
tbid said:
Now the question I have is; Why do old men buy these cars?! Fair enough they're Icons of past era's and marvels of design but some of them are quite frankly painful and unexciting to drive! They can empty your wallet 10 fold faster than your wife & Have a tendency to go wrong at the most awkward moments, I just can't really understand the mentality of people that buy these kinds of car, Anyone care to share there thoughts?
i cant really understand why people choose to pay to watch football matches, or spend thousands of pounds going on a two week foreign holiday just to look 'better' then other people, but its other peoples lifes, so hey-howhat i do understand is the motoring history of companies like rolls royce / riley etc, and how well made and designed the pre war products where made.
sure. my old mans 20/25 is a ponderous drive (when compared to modern cars), but its great just to drift along at 45-50 mph actually enjoying the experience (though i do enjoy snoozing in the back.....)
been lucky enough to work on the cars is great, at 19 you just dont realise how lucky you are to be trusted to work and drive on such icons, maybe the appreciation of classics is someting that most people have to grow into?
..... you'll learn An interesting post and no wonder it’s raised a few question marks.
The first issue is the range of cars you’re driving and their value, there are other posts on here regarding insurance and trying to get cover for a 19yr old so for you to be able to hop from one car to another raises eye brows.
I guess your cover is c/o a Motor Traders Policy which if so, I would bet a fiver, has a limit on the size/power of car you are allowed to drive; you may want to check.
Secondly if I was the owner of the aforementioned then I’m not entirely sure I would be happy to find out that a young employee had been driving my SS100 or 20/25. I’m not being cynical that you are doing so merely that I would surmise the conversation was something along the lines of “yes of course and I’d be grateful if you would take it out for a few miles every so often to keep things oiled, warmed up and functioning” I am very surprised that the proprietor has delegated such a task to a young employee that is unless Dad happened to be the proprietor.
So what is “young”? Well in the Second World War we were happy to let 19yr olds fly Merlin powered Spitfires and huge Lancaster bombers. The DTM series et al has a whole raft of 19/20yr old lads driving Porsches and BM’s flat out.
Maybe the point is about perceived value? The examples I mentioned above have a disposable value (not talking about a “life” here!!) that was relatively low to circumstances whereas an SS100 is somewhat rarer today hence the furore regarding the XK150 being banger raced.
So to the opening question – what do “old men see?” I believe the answer lies in a mixture of taste, preference, education and maturity- the latter being a whole different subject.
Many years ago I was given a boxed collection of Borodin, after innumerable attempts to listen to them I gave up, I thought the music depressive. I gave the collection to my late father and he was absolutely thrilled with them. He said that he wouldn’t accept them as a gift but borrow them until I was ready for them – he was right; along with a bottle of £5 Liebfraumilch, The A Team and innumerable girlfriends my tastes have moved on. My delights today are Cote De Bourg, Laphroaig, my lovely warm woman Carol and of course Borodin. Benjj and LordBretSinclair have it right – you’ll learn.
What is to be enjoyed is a dimension of motoring that perhaps isn’t available nowadays, somewhat akin to having the ability to make a soufflé, driving can be an art and a means of self expression, indeed you mention it yourself in describing your inability to double de-clutch perfectly.
Owning and driving something we dreamed of owning when younger is about aspirational desires. The ownership is about visual, kinesthetic and aural appeal coupled with the ability to enhance those appeals based upon the amount of time effort and money thrown at them.
That to my mind is why an 1800 plastic bumper, asthmatic, MG can give as much pride and pleasure to the owner as a “look at me red Ferrari” does to their respective owner.
So to close, you’re very lucky to be able to be able to drive those fine cars, I’m sure that you do appreciate their financial value I hope that in years to come we can hear how you also have come to learn and appreciate their intrinsic value as well.
Enjoy – You’re a lucky young man
The first issue is the range of cars you’re driving and their value, there are other posts on here regarding insurance and trying to get cover for a 19yr old so for you to be able to hop from one car to another raises eye brows.
I guess your cover is c/o a Motor Traders Policy which if so, I would bet a fiver, has a limit on the size/power of car you are allowed to drive; you may want to check.
Secondly if I was the owner of the aforementioned then I’m not entirely sure I would be happy to find out that a young employee had been driving my SS100 or 20/25. I’m not being cynical that you are doing so merely that I would surmise the conversation was something along the lines of “yes of course and I’d be grateful if you would take it out for a few miles every so often to keep things oiled, warmed up and functioning” I am very surprised that the proprietor has delegated such a task to a young employee that is unless Dad happened to be the proprietor.
So what is “young”? Well in the Second World War we were happy to let 19yr olds fly Merlin powered Spitfires and huge Lancaster bombers. The DTM series et al has a whole raft of 19/20yr old lads driving Porsches and BM’s flat out.
Maybe the point is about perceived value? The examples I mentioned above have a disposable value (not talking about a “life” here!!) that was relatively low to circumstances whereas an SS100 is somewhat rarer today hence the furore regarding the XK150 being banger raced.
So to the opening question – what do “old men see?” I believe the answer lies in a mixture of taste, preference, education and maturity- the latter being a whole different subject.
Many years ago I was given a boxed collection of Borodin, after innumerable attempts to listen to them I gave up, I thought the music depressive. I gave the collection to my late father and he was absolutely thrilled with them. He said that he wouldn’t accept them as a gift but borrow them until I was ready for them – he was right; along with a bottle of £5 Liebfraumilch, The A Team and innumerable girlfriends my tastes have moved on. My delights today are Cote De Bourg, Laphroaig, my lovely warm woman Carol and of course Borodin. Benjj and LordBretSinclair have it right – you’ll learn.
What is to be enjoyed is a dimension of motoring that perhaps isn’t available nowadays, somewhat akin to having the ability to make a soufflé, driving can be an art and a means of self expression, indeed you mention it yourself in describing your inability to double de-clutch perfectly.
Owning and driving something we dreamed of owning when younger is about aspirational desires. The ownership is about visual, kinesthetic and aural appeal coupled with the ability to enhance those appeals based upon the amount of time effort and money thrown at them.
That to my mind is why an 1800 plastic bumper, asthmatic, MG can give as much pride and pleasure to the owner as a “look at me red Ferrari” does to their respective owner.
So to close, you’re very lucky to be able to be able to drive those fine cars, I’m sure that you do appreciate their financial value I hope that in years to come we can hear how you also have come to learn and appreciate their intrinsic value as well.
Enjoy – You’re a lucky young man
Funny my first drive of a 20/25 was when I was 17, and yes they do have a very slow box. The ghost has a lovely box with a cotton clutch, not sure if the Phantom II uses the same.
I drive old cars every day, I have done the Brighton more times than I can remember. But I can't really explain the appeal, its an emotion really. Modern cars are just so boring to drive, they make you feel like you're being drowned in computer chips. Taking you further and further away from being a driver, and pushing you closer to being the soft fleshy bit inside a tin can getting shipped from place to place.
Some old cars are exciting some are just fun, but every one of them is an event to drive. A monkey can drive a modern car quickly, but manhandle an old car down the road and you're a motorist.
Ok modern cars still have a place as a tool and sometimes its nice to be able to drive down the road and not look like you’re conducting an orchestra with hands and feet. A quick poke of the accelerator reminds you most old cars have less power than a Belgian MP, but as good as moderns get they will never be as much fun.
Its just something you have, don't worry about it, maybe your passion is in another direction.
But for god's sake please work on your gear changing!!! Go and get a shed and practice
I drive old cars every day, I have done the Brighton more times than I can remember. But I can't really explain the appeal, its an emotion really. Modern cars are just so boring to drive, they make you feel like you're being drowned in computer chips. Taking you further and further away from being a driver, and pushing you closer to being the soft fleshy bit inside a tin can getting shipped from place to place.
Some old cars are exciting some are just fun, but every one of them is an event to drive. A monkey can drive a modern car quickly, but manhandle an old car down the road and you're a motorist.
Ok modern cars still have a place as a tool and sometimes its nice to be able to drive down the road and not look like you’re conducting an orchestra with hands and feet. A quick poke of the accelerator reminds you most old cars have less power than a Belgian MP, but as good as moderns get they will never be as much fun.
Its just something you have, don't worry about it, maybe your passion is in another direction.
But for god's sake please work on your gear changing!!! Go and get a shed and practice
Edited by Major Fallout on Saturday 7th January 13:40
tbid said:
The Phantom II on the other hand was an Absolute joy to drive, ... I got many admiring and some shocked glances at a babyfaced 19 yearold behind the wheel of a gigantic Rolls!
I think you might have answered some of your own question here, but some of the appeal is also the social side of owning such a car. Many of Dad's mates are RREC members - he's been a member for over 40 years. Okay it can be a luncheon and weekend trip club for the retired, but why not? However not so much fun when you're young. If you want to see what the young (at heart) do in a Pre War Car, come to the VSCC Brooklands Driving Tests later this month. Dad has a 16.9hp Sunbeam which suffers from the similar gear lever issue as your 20/25, so I don't drive it far. My kid brother finds it fine, and he has done a few VSCC Navigation Rallies in it, so it might be down to finding the right car. I have a Alvis 12/50 - I see your Dad has a 12/40 listed. The ohv 12/50 is a very usable vintage tourer, last used for the VSCC Welsh Navigation, on Xmas day we decided to take it to the Boxing Day Romsey Classic Show and on NYD it went down to the New Forest do. However I don't have side screens, so the rain going home could have been an issue - so I can see why the older patron my wish the weather protection of a saloon.
One man's meat is another man's poison. No doubt my son will completley fail to experience what I do every time I see, hear, smell and feel a 205 1.9 GTI. That car (and others of that era) encapsulates all kinds of magic for me. The cars you refer to will do the same for others.
Oh, and sometimes the way they drive is irrelevant - the magic is not always tangible to everyone.
Oh, and sometimes the way they drive is irrelevant - the magic is not always tangible to everyone.
Edited by peterbredde on Saturday 7th January 13:34
peterbredde said:
One man's meat is another man's poison. No doubt my son will completley fail to experience what I do every time I see, hear, smell and feel a 205 1.9 GTI. That car (and others of that era) encapsulates all kinds of magic for me. The cars you refer to will do the same for others.
Oh, and sometimes the way they drive is irrelevant - the magic is not always tangible to everyone.
+1Oh, and sometimes the way they drive is irrelevant - the magic is not always tangible to everyone.
I have to say, if you worked in my workshops and expressed such a nonplussed attitude towards a client's prized classic, especially in such a public way, i would sack you. There must be thousands of guys in garages accros the country who wish they had your job. Honestly if you have no heart for it, apply to McDonalds and free up the space for someone with true driving passion. also i cannot believe you are insured to the full value of the car.
Peter
Peter
tbid said:
Now the question I have is; Why do old men buy these cars?! Fair enough they're Icons of past era's and marvels of design but some of them are quite frankly painful and unexciting to drive! They can empty your wallet 10 fold faster than your wife & Have a tendency to go wrong at the most awkward moments, I just can't really understand the mentality of people that buy these kinds of car, Anyone care to share there thoughts?
It would appear that the bulk of your employers business http://www.vandp.net/ is selling the type of cars that you so dislike to customers (old men!) whose mentality you apparently question.I suspect that unless your employer is a close family member you may find yourself out of a job rather quickly.
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