mobile phone hazards
Discussion
This has just been officially circulated at work by our safety section. (Ouch). Does anyone know how it actually happens? It's not as though a phone gives off a spark.
Health & Safety News Flash
Use of mobile phones during refuelling of vehicles
It has been drawn to our attention that several incidents have occurred recently where mobile phones have ignited fumes whilst being answered / ringing during refuelling of vehicles.
In one case a phone was placed on a boot lid while the occupant filled the vehicle with fuel and when the phone rang it set fire to fumes destroying the car and the pump.
In another case the person suffered burns to their face when they answered the phone as they filled their vehicle with fuel. This was again caused by the fumes from the fuel igniting due to the mobile phone being activated.
In a third reported case a person suffered burns to their thigh and groin as fumes ignited when the phone which was in their pocket, rang as they were filling the vehicle with fuel.
Incidents of this nature are extremely serious and as such the following actions must be implemented immediately by all employees who use mobile phones :
Mobile phones must not be used at filling stations or any place where refuelling operations take place, e.g. Filling Stations or refuelling plant & equipment.
Mobile phones must be switched off prior to getting out of your vehicle at Filling Stations.
Mobile phones have become an essential part of our daily life and a very effective business tool but it is essential that we use them in a safe manner.
Health & Safety News Flash
Use of mobile phones during refuelling of vehicles
It has been drawn to our attention that several incidents have occurred recently where mobile phones have ignited fumes whilst being answered / ringing during refuelling of vehicles.
In one case a phone was placed on a boot lid while the occupant filled the vehicle with fuel and when the phone rang it set fire to fumes destroying the car and the pump.
In another case the person suffered burns to their face when they answered the phone as they filled their vehicle with fuel. This was again caused by the fumes from the fuel igniting due to the mobile phone being activated.
In a third reported case a person suffered burns to their thigh and groin as fumes ignited when the phone which was in their pocket, rang as they were filling the vehicle with fuel.
Incidents of this nature are extremely serious and as such the following actions must be implemented immediately by all employees who use mobile phones :
Mobile phones must not be used at filling stations or any place where refuelling operations take place, e.g. Filling Stations or refuelling plant & equipment.
Mobile phones must be switched off prior to getting out of your vehicle at Filling Stations.
Mobile phones have become an essential part of our daily life and a very effective business tool but it is essential that we use them in a safe manner.
Personally, I suspect that there is very little chance of a phone causing a fire - why should it be any more risky that driving a car onto the forecourt with a hot exhaust manifold under the bonnet, or opening your door and enabling the courtesy light switch, turning on/off the radio, or even starting the engine. I feel that it is due to the remote possibility that a phone may interfere with the pump's fuel registry systems and that it might not register the fuel accurately.
Do your in-house safety crew actually have any first hand experience in this area? I've seen signs dotted around petrol stations asking the punters to switch off their phones, but I've never seen a news report describing an actual incident. Seems to me that if any of these fires had actually happened they would get splashed all over the papers. More likely its just one of these rumours that starts circulating.
Now, not wishing to cast doubt on the good sense of your safety boys, I'd just mention the recent antics of our building security/safety people. We're in the NatWest Tower ... few weeks back a Wellington bomber did a few circuits over the City and then flew over Westminster as part of some ceremony. A few pillocks in the building assumed the plane had been hijacked by Al Quaida and was looking for something to crash into. They phoned security, security phoned the CAA and complained. With no sense of irony, security forwarded the CAA response to everyone in the building along with a nice "cor-blimey, itsa****indisgrace" type of comment. Guess they have nothing better to do.
Now, not wishing to cast doubt on the good sense of your safety boys, I'd just mention the recent antics of our building security/safety people. We're in the NatWest Tower ... few weeks back a Wellington bomber did a few circuits over the City and then flew over Westminster as part of some ceremony. A few pillocks in the building assumed the plane had been hijacked by Al Quaida and was looking for something to crash into. They phoned security, security phoned the CAA and complained. With no sense of irony, security forwarded the CAA response to everyone in the building along with a nice "cor-blimey, itsa****indisgrace" type of comment. Guess they have nothing better to do.
How would it cause the fumes to ignite? The damned thing is on all the time, its not like electric only starts flowing when the damned thing rings. Maybe the power drain goes up significantly but thats about it I cant see there ever being a spark or something hot enough to ignite petrol vapour.
Must be boll0cks.
Matt.
Must be boll0cks.
Matt.
I used to work in a petrol station as a summer job before going to uni and the reason that mobile phones should not be used on the foor court was to avoid the risk of sparks indeed causing explosions.
Mobile phones do not effect the accuracy or delivery of the fuel tanks and so it is not to avoid "mistakes". We were instructed not to authorise the delivery of any petrol to a pump if the person was using a mobile phone, and also to stop delivery if the person started using one "mid-fill".
Even if the risk of such an explosion is low do you really want to experience burns over your face or groin? Just leave the phone in the car and then talk when your going down the fast lane doing 90 whilst eating a Kit Kat/applying make up/etc/etc!!!!
Mobile phones do not effect the accuracy or delivery of the fuel tanks and so it is not to avoid "mistakes". We were instructed not to authorise the delivery of any petrol to a pump if the person was using a mobile phone, and also to stop delivery if the person started using one "mid-fill".
Even if the risk of such an explosion is low do you really want to experience burns over your face or groin? Just leave the phone in the car and then talk when your going down the fast lane doing 90 whilst eating a Kit Kat/applying make up/etc/etc!!!!
It's complete bollocks I sense the origial scare stories come from the fact that transmission of any kind can have an adverse effect and cause detonation of explosive devices using electrical/electronic operated fuses. Hence why army patrols in NI use jamming equipment and have very strict radio procedure on usage, also why absolutely no (un approved) electrical equipment is ever allowed in an in use magazine or explosives store (even the torches and light fittings are double insulated and screened) this is totally different to igniting fumes which simple cannot be done from EMC emmisions. In theory the accuracy of the metering could be effected but not with the levels of power being given off from a mobile (you would need lots of watts to start having an effect). I suspect it is an urban myth fed by Petrol companies paranoia. Petrol vapour when vented to atmosphere is just not that volitile and as for diesal its- actually possible to put a cigerette out in a bucket of diesal without risk (always a good party trick )
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The reason that the signs are put maybe more as a disclaimer perhaps? The petrol companies may have calculated there is a risk (however small) and thought that if they have signs up saying that people should not use the pumps when on mobile phones they are limiting their liability if something goes wrong.
I would guess if there wasn't a disclaimer and an explosion did occour then "Claims Direct" etc would have a field day as the petrol company didn't warn the user of any risk.
I would guess if there wasn't a disclaimer and an explosion did occour then "Claims Direct" etc would have a field day as the petrol company didn't warn the user of any risk.
Mels right chaps - the chances of this actually happening must be SOOOOOoooo low that it is not worth bothering with. I would assume that the petrol companies just put up the signs so that they dont have any legal liability (ass protection).
As Mel rightly says, you can throw a LIT cigarette into a bucket of petrol or diesel and it wont light. Strange as it may seem - fuel is not that flammable in comparison to other substances. You can actually do a lot to it before it ignites (it has an odour but not that reactive at normal temps). In fact, think about the engine mechanics here - you have to blend it in the right amounts with air (principally oxygen) and then put it in a chamber (cylinder) and then pass a high voltage spark across it (remember that the voltage is stepped up for the spark plugs) - and even then it isnt guaranteed!!!!
I mean, imagine all of the those cars exploding in accidents? All it would take would be a nudge from behind and your car would explode (actually that would make everyone VERY safe drivers though). Hollywood strikes again.
As for phones - its only a microwave - so actually NOT possible for a WAVE (high frequency) to ignite something! Think about it there too? We put these things next to our heads and we are worried about them lighting a fire? What about all those people with hair spray on? Thats more flammable than petrol!!!! Have you heard of people with their head on fire?
No, it is bollocks really.
Cheers,
Paul
P.S. If I am wrong I will eat my hat.
As Mel rightly says, you can throw a LIT cigarette into a bucket of petrol or diesel and it wont light. Strange as it may seem - fuel is not that flammable in comparison to other substances. You can actually do a lot to it before it ignites (it has an odour but not that reactive at normal temps). In fact, think about the engine mechanics here - you have to blend it in the right amounts with air (principally oxygen) and then put it in a chamber (cylinder) and then pass a high voltage spark across it (remember that the voltage is stepped up for the spark plugs) - and even then it isnt guaranteed!!!!
I mean, imagine all of the those cars exploding in accidents? All it would take would be a nudge from behind and your car would explode (actually that would make everyone VERY safe drivers though). Hollywood strikes again.
As for phones - its only a microwave - so actually NOT possible for a WAVE (high frequency) to ignite something! Think about it there too? We put these things next to our heads and we are worried about them lighting a fire? What about all those people with hair spray on? Thats more flammable than petrol!!!! Have you heard of people with their head on fire?
No, it is bollocks really.
Cheers,
Paul
P.S. If I am wrong I will eat my hat.
Paul,
I think (IMHO anyway) that the logic here might be a bit flawed.
I can give you an example of how to test your theory at home but won't cause there might just be someone here young or stupid enough to try it.
Simply enough though there is no difference in using fire, electricity or microwaves to ignite fuels. They all do the same thing, cause the molecules in the fuel to vibrate to a point where they contain enough energy to produce a cascade effect which liberates more energy than was initially supplied leading to an explosion. Based upon how hot your fire is, how large the electrical current is or how stong the micrwave energy is, sometimes a catalyst is needed but not always.
Totally agree that a mobile phone should not be able to give off microwaves of sufficient energy to do the job on their own, especially in an open environment but there are substances around that could provide enough of a catalyst to produce the unlikely spark required.
I think that the petrol companies are doing that same thing as the airlines etc, in that the theory suggests that it could happen, however unlikely and so they have to cover themselves against litigation.
Of course I'm not a physicist, and this could all be crap, but I think based upon my v.dodgy education that it's pretty close to the truth. Someone please feel free to correct me if I totally off base here.
Jarrett
I think (IMHO anyway) that the logic here might be a bit flawed.
I can give you an example of how to test your theory at home but won't cause there might just be someone here young or stupid enough to try it.
Simply enough though there is no difference in using fire, electricity or microwaves to ignite fuels. They all do the same thing, cause the molecules in the fuel to vibrate to a point where they contain enough energy to produce a cascade effect which liberates more energy than was initially supplied leading to an explosion. Based upon how hot your fire is, how large the electrical current is or how stong the micrwave energy is, sometimes a catalyst is needed but not always.
Totally agree that a mobile phone should not be able to give off microwaves of sufficient energy to do the job on their own, especially in an open environment but there are substances around that could provide enough of a catalyst to produce the unlikely spark required.
I think that the petrol companies are doing that same thing as the airlines etc, in that the theory suggests that it could happen, however unlikely and so they have to cover themselves against litigation.
Of course I'm not a physicist, and this could all be crap, but I think based upon my v.dodgy education that it's pretty close to the truth. Someone please feel free to correct me if I totally off base here.
Jarrett
I was told that if you pass a high frequency though flamable liquid or more likely gas (fumes) it causes the molecules of the substance to vibrate more it is possible to cause iginition depending upon the substance. Sounds feasable but i'm not willing to put it too the test!
As far as the GSM Association is aware none of the media stories has ever been traced to a real event, however, speculation has been encouraged by the notices produced by petroleum companies. Mobile phone user guides also frequently advise that phones should be switched off in the vicinity of petrol forecourts. This is not due to the radio signals transmitted by the phone but because of the theoretical risk that if a handheld phone is dropped and the battery separates from the phone it may cause a spark across the contacts. This is also true of other battery-powered devices such as torches, walkman, CD players, etc. There may be more tangible hazards associated with the distraction of using a mobile phone while operating a petrol pump. Therefore, the GSM Association position is that mobile phone users should respect the prohibitions of the fuel companies, and follow any relevant advice given in their mobile phone user guides.
As far as the GSM Association is aware none of the media stories has ever been traced to a real event, however, speculation has been encouraged by the notices produced by petroleum companies. Mobile phone user guides also frequently advise that phones should be switched off in the vicinity of petrol forecourts. This is not due to the radio signals transmitted by the phone but because of the theoretical risk that if a handheld phone is dropped and the battery separates from the phone it may cause a spark across the contacts. This is also true of other battery-powered devices such as torches, walkman, CD players, etc. There may be more tangible hazards associated with the distraction of using a mobile phone while operating a petrol pump. Therefore, the GSM Association position is that mobile phone users should respect the prohibitions of the fuel companies, and follow any relevant advice given in their mobile phone user guides.
By way of illustration of how crap the civil service are, the new Tetra digital radios that are being imposed upon emergency services actually do spark - and they're giving those to the.. ummm.. Fire Service!
They've had to produce 'comprehensive guidelines' on their use.
Brilliant..
They've had to produce 'comprehensive guidelines' on their use.
Brilliant..
The Darwin Awards web site www.darwinawards.com/legends/
has an item "Cell phone Destroys Gas Station" and it's reckoned to be an urban myth
has an item "Cell phone Destroys Gas Station" and it's reckoned to be an urban myth
Quite agree that it is stunningly unlikely that the microwaves from a phone would ignite petrol ... if they did they would have cooked your ear first
Must say, there was a comment that petrol is quite inert ... it ain't. Diesel takes a lot of effort to burn, but petrol is completely different. I was a bit of a pyro as a kid, and take it from me, petrol is bl00dy dangerous stuff. It evaporates at room temp to form a puddle of invisible gas that will collect in any hollows. It can easily be set off by a spark or a cigarette, and that vapour can explode if there is some air mixed in with it. The reason cars don't go boom in car crashes is because the manufacturer goes to a lot of effort to protect the contents of the tank. When the tank does rupture, you are in all kinds of poo.
Must say, there was a comment that petrol is quite inert ... it ain't. Diesel takes a lot of effort to burn, but petrol is completely different. I was a bit of a pyro as a kid, and take it from me, petrol is bl00dy dangerous stuff. It evaporates at room temp to form a puddle of invisible gas that will collect in any hollows. It can easily be set off by a spark or a cigarette, and that vapour can explode if there is some air mixed in with it. The reason cars don't go boom in car crashes is because the manufacturer goes to a lot of effort to protect the contents of the tank. When the tank does rupture, you are in all kinds of poo.
banned in planes because they are a microwave source. Risk that they can screw with the radar (also microwave), radio comms, and particularly dangerously, IIRC, there was an incident where a phone was blamed for screwing up the pre-take off GPS calibration causing the plane to miss the runway on landing.
Quote:
"As Mel rightly says, you can throw a LIT cigarette into a bucket of petrol or diesel and it wont light"
Paul,
Don't try this at home or near me. Petrol vapour will ignite from a lit cigarette. Petrol is very volatile and an open bucket of the stuff may result in a sufficient vapour/air mix above the liquid to burn bloody quickly dissipating enough heat energy to cause the remaining petrol to vapour off and continue the flame front.
As for the other comments re mobile phones, All the warning signs that I've seen say switch off your mobile when filling your vehicle. I guess that not many do this but have seen attendants get pretty mad with numpties who insist on using their mobiles on the forecourt.
Mike
"As Mel rightly says, you can throw a LIT cigarette into a bucket of petrol or diesel and it wont light"
Paul,
Don't try this at home or near me. Petrol vapour will ignite from a lit cigarette. Petrol is very volatile and an open bucket of the stuff may result in a sufficient vapour/air mix above the liquid to burn bloody quickly dissipating enough heat energy to cause the remaining petrol to vapour off and continue the flame front.
As for the other comments re mobile phones, All the warning signs that I've seen say switch off your mobile when filling your vehicle. I guess that not many do this but have seen attendants get pretty mad with numpties who insist on using their mobiles on the forecourt.
Mike
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