wine list etiquette
Discussion
Having recently had the pleasure of dining at a very nice restaraunt with a substantial wine list it struck me that asking for a wine recommendation could be a very expensive business!
My wife having no real interest in wine is happy to let me choose, however she was not so happy when I said I would ask for a recommendation based on a set budget whereas I was happy to ask for the best option for my modest budget.
When presented with a wine list with wines costing thousands it really isn't asking for a recommendation for the 'best wine'!
My wife having no real interest in wine is happy to let me choose, however she was not so happy when I said I would ask for a recommendation based on a set budget whereas I was happy to ask for the best option for my modest budget.
When presented with a wine list with wines costing thousands it really isn't asking for a recommendation for the 'best wine'!
Absolutely nothing wrong with asking for recommendations around a certain price point - the sommelier will have put the list together so shouldn't feel put out by people ordering at any level on the list. Indeed, a good list should have something for all diners...
If you feel in any way awkward about saying what you want to spend (in front of guests or other diners) just ask for "something [of characteristics/type a, b, and c] around that price..." (pointing at something on the list).
If you feel in any way awkward about saying what you want to spend (in front of guests or other diners) just ask for "something [of characteristics/type a, b, and c] around that price..." (pointing at something on the list).
raf_gti said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
A good somellier will ascertain the customer's budget and the sophistication of their palette through a series of questions, without ever being so obvious as to ask directly
I did wonder why when I said I liked my wine to "taste of grapes" he looked at me funny 
I do it frequently. There are some areas where I have good knowledge, ( US /France), and others where I am clueless ( Italy/Germany). In Italian restaurants, for instance, I will try to describe the type of wine I am looking for and . having looked at the wine list prices will say, "something between x an d y money". I agree with the comments on sommeliers. They are generally extremely helpful. In a restaurant where I am visiting for the first time I usually check the markup on a few common wines so I can get a sense of the markup. For example, most places serve Veuve Cliquot NV and its a good indicator of what they are marking up.
Davey S2 said:
Dont be afraid to ask for a glass of the house wine.
You can try it while you peruse the wine list and if its good (which it should be in a place where they have an extensive cellar) you can order a bottle of it.
I like that.You can try it while you peruse the wine list and if its good (which it should be in a place where they have an extensive cellar) you can order a bottle of it.
Although I always feel that ordering the 'house red' is a bit of an anti-climax.
RDMcG said:
IIn a restaurant where I am visiting for the first time I usually check the markup on a few common wines so I can get a sense of the markup. For example, most places serve Veuve Cliquot NV and its a good indicator of what they are marking up.
Now that's a whole different subject... and one that pains me greatly.It is irksome to face the dilemma of deciding whether to:
1) Feel fleeced by restaurants with exorbitant mark-ups (irrespective of whether or not you can afford it); or
2) Trade down and drink worse than I would at home.
Would love corkage to be more widely available (especially at those restaurants where the list can all still be bought wholesale, there is limited depth/breadth in certain regions, or the wine is far from its peak) as it is in the US.
LooneyTunes said:
Would love corkage to be more widely available (especially at those restaurants where the list can all still be bought wholesale, there is limited depth/breadth in certain regions, or the wine is far from its peak) as it is in the US.
Agreed. The other thing the US does exceptionally well is the variety of wines available by the glass.
This seems to be catching on here - albeit rather slowly.
tontoro said:
LooneyTunes said:
2) Trade down and drink worse than I would at home.
do you really feel that the price of the wine has much at all to do with the quality?But I also agree that when in France some of the best wine I have tasted often turned out to be quite cheap, probably cause they keep most of the good stuff in the country and export the expensive named stuff to over paying Europeans.
Du1point8 said:
tontoro said:
LooneyTunes said:
2) Trade down and drink worse than I would at home.
do you really feel that the price of the wine has much at all to do with the quality?But I also agree that when in France some of the best wine I have tasted often turned out to be quite cheap, probably cause they keep most of the good stuff in the country and export the expensive named stuff to over paying Europeans.
tontoro said:
LooneyTunes said:
2) Trade down and drink worse than I would at home.
do you really feel that the price of the wine has much at all to do with the quality?The issue, you see, is that there are certain costs (duty, bottling, transport, etc) that are largely fixed... spend a bit more and a good chunk of the increase will go on improved production. This page has some numbers that look about right: http://www.thirtyfifty.co.uk/spotlight-wine-pricin...
More important though is drinking wine at the right point in its life. I could open a £150 bottle of very young Bordeaux and suspect the majority wouldn't get past the ferocity of the tannins... it would certainly be more challenging to drink, and arguably much less pleasurable, than a £15 bottle served at its peak. Indeed, I know which I'd go for. But how many restaurants offer more modest wines properly aged? Sadly very few (and, yes, I know there are all sorts of capital issues that make it tricky/expensive).
BUT, as someone else has suggested, the problem I really have is that if I've got a wine that I paid £25 on release then it's painful to see the same wine on the list at a hefty mark-up on current retail - to the extent that I'll generally choose something different, with a lower absolute mark-up, rather than feel fleeced. It is truly one of those occasions when I wished my wine knowledge were even more limited than it is... it is a problem of my own making, so one I just live with!
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