Legalities around recording a meeting with an employer?
Discussion
I'm asking this through a new account as it could potentially cause problems in the future, unlikely but I'd rather not be linkable to the topic. I'm not interested in the morals of what I'm about to ask, I am happy to make my own judgements on that if necessary, but I could do with a legal perspective on a situation I may or may be about to become involved in:
Is it legal for a person to record a meeting between themselves and their employer if the employer isn't made aware that the meeting is being recorded? I know that 'this telephone call is being recorded for training purposes', but when it's an in-house discussion I'd think that would be different? If certain meetings take place I would want to be able to have a complete record of the meeting, not just the 'minutes' that would be issued following the meeting. It's difficult to participate and take minutes at the same time and the usual minute taker is useless and wouldn't write the minutes from my point of view if that makes sense. I wouldn't want to make it known that I was keeping a complete record of the meeting because the 'other side' have previous for distorting the records of meetings because they have trouble saying what they really mean face to face and will agree with things during meetings, then disagree with them in meeting minutes or by email later on. I'd prefer the meeting to take place in a normal manor and not be distorted by them knowing that they're being recorded. They might choose to shoot themselves in the foot.
Secondly if you were to obtain a recording of a meeting that took place that you weren't involved in would you be breaking any laws? I appreciate that such 'evidence' wouldn't be admissible in court or tribunal, but just having the record would likely to be advantageous in planning any strategy of defense or attack.
The situation is that I've been made aware by a third party that I may be involved in a 'redundancy' situation that is really a 'we want rid of you for no good reason' situation and that the premise for my 'redundancy' would be based on incorrect facts as a result of a number of meetings that I should have been involved in but wasn't actually informed about, let alone asked to participate in. I've recently had a 'performance review' meeting, but this was conducted in the style of a job interview rather than a two sided discussion, no feedback on performance was offered at all, but no issues were raised with my performance either. The third party has told me that there's a meeting to be held next week and because of the nature of my work it's a simple press of a button to record the meeting and find out exactly what is going on.
There's obviously been a total breach of trust and my position is untenable in the long term. I'm fully aware of the legalities around redundancy and dismissal and am happy that if things progress they would be looking at a defeat in tribunal and a significant payout, but I would like to be able to retain control of my exit and that means knowing exactly what the other side are planning so I can defend/attack as appropriate and keep them on the back foot from the off.
I appreciate that this might be better in the legal section, but I can't post there for a couple of weeks, so please don't move the topic!
If you can offer useful advice, or just some devious tactics for making things as difficult as possible for these idiots, it'll be massively appreciated!
Is it legal for a person to record a meeting between themselves and their employer if the employer isn't made aware that the meeting is being recorded? I know that 'this telephone call is being recorded for training purposes', but when it's an in-house discussion I'd think that would be different? If certain meetings take place I would want to be able to have a complete record of the meeting, not just the 'minutes' that would be issued following the meeting. It's difficult to participate and take minutes at the same time and the usual minute taker is useless and wouldn't write the minutes from my point of view if that makes sense. I wouldn't want to make it known that I was keeping a complete record of the meeting because the 'other side' have previous for distorting the records of meetings because they have trouble saying what they really mean face to face and will agree with things during meetings, then disagree with them in meeting minutes or by email later on. I'd prefer the meeting to take place in a normal manor and not be distorted by them knowing that they're being recorded. They might choose to shoot themselves in the foot.
Secondly if you were to obtain a recording of a meeting that took place that you weren't involved in would you be breaking any laws? I appreciate that such 'evidence' wouldn't be admissible in court or tribunal, but just having the record would likely to be advantageous in planning any strategy of defense or attack.
The situation is that I've been made aware by a third party that I may be involved in a 'redundancy' situation that is really a 'we want rid of you for no good reason' situation and that the premise for my 'redundancy' would be based on incorrect facts as a result of a number of meetings that I should have been involved in but wasn't actually informed about, let alone asked to participate in. I've recently had a 'performance review' meeting, but this was conducted in the style of a job interview rather than a two sided discussion, no feedback on performance was offered at all, but no issues were raised with my performance either. The third party has told me that there's a meeting to be held next week and because of the nature of my work it's a simple press of a button to record the meeting and find out exactly what is going on.
There's obviously been a total breach of trust and my position is untenable in the long term. I'm fully aware of the legalities around redundancy and dismissal and am happy that if things progress they would be looking at a defeat in tribunal and a significant payout, but I would like to be able to retain control of my exit and that means knowing exactly what the other side are planning so I can defend/attack as appropriate and keep them on the back foot from the off.
I appreciate that this might be better in the legal section, but I can't post there for a couple of weeks, so please don't move the topic!
If you can offer useful advice, or just some devious tactics for making things as difficult as possible for these idiots, it'll be massively appreciated!
Depends; Law is not black and white. If an individual expects a conversation to be private and remain private (such as a telephone conversation), then to make such a conversation public (by recording without permission) then this may be looked upon as an infringeent by a court. If in doubt, ask the participant or read the law covering such issues.
It is not illegal to record in such situations covertly on a Dictaphone/mobile, and there is no reason why it couldn't be presented legally at civil/tribunal proceedings (at the very least transcribed as said above), although they may decline to accept it.
What bothers me is you seem to be hinting that your position gives you the ability to press a button to access/misuse CCTV/LAN/Phone/systems/records etc. If that is what you mean, that could well be a criminal breach of the DPA as well as possible other offences, and gross misconduct.
What bothers me is you seem to be hinting that your position gives you the ability to press a button to access/misuse CCTV/LAN/Phone/systems/records etc. If that is what you mean, that could well be a criminal breach of the DPA as well as possible other offences, and gross misconduct.
Conversations that are recorded are only admissable if both parties have given specific consent and that needs to be documented. We have started doing this for 1-2-1's and disciplinaries as it is a lot quicker and easier.
Regarding your point about information being discussed in meetings (and potentially being referred to at a later point), after every meeting get the manager conducting the meeting to provide a summary of what was discussed, including any data that was referred to. Again both parties should sign and date this form.
While conversations you may have access to that have been recorded by a 3rd party without consent may give you a 'competative advantage', I echo a previous poster in that this could open a whole can of nasty brown stuff heading your way. Avoid.
Regarding your point about information being discussed in meetings (and potentially being referred to at a later point), after every meeting get the manager conducting the meeting to provide a summary of what was discussed, including any data that was referred to. Again both parties should sign and date this form.
While conversations you may have access to that have been recorded by a 3rd party without consent may give you a 'competative advantage', I echo a previous poster in that this could open a whole can of nasty brown stuff heading your way. Avoid.
Mainly because I can’t stand fricking about I’d just go in there and lay it on the line.
Nice and simple
“I understand from other sources that you are trying to manage me out. I also understand that you are wasting both our time and your money trying to find a way to do it without me suing your butts off. So I leave you with the following choices:-
1. Tell me what is going on, we’ll talk like adults and I’ll tell you what it will take for you to ensure that I go quietly and the story that we will all tell the rest of the World.
2. We keep dicking about behind each others back and I sue you for something and you try to counter sue and we all end up paying shed loads to solicitors for no good reason.
3. You tell me that I am paranoid, that there is nothing going on and we carry on as before.
Let me warn you though, any porky pies will result in me making it a mission In life to prove to you why honesty is the best policy.”
Sure that might just ride over 1001 employment law points but it might just end up with an agreement that you are both happy with if they can trust you to act like an adult.
Nice and simple
“I understand from other sources that you are trying to manage me out. I also understand that you are wasting both our time and your money trying to find a way to do it without me suing your butts off. So I leave you with the following choices:-
1. Tell me what is going on, we’ll talk like adults and I’ll tell you what it will take for you to ensure that I go quietly and the story that we will all tell the rest of the World.
2. We keep dicking about behind each others back and I sue you for something and you try to counter sue and we all end up paying shed loads to solicitors for no good reason.
3. You tell me that I am paranoid, that there is nothing going on and we carry on as before.
Let me warn you though, any porky pies will result in me making it a mission In life to prove to you why honesty is the best policy.”
Sure that might just ride over 1001 employment law points but it might just end up with an agreement that you are both happy with if they can trust you to act like an adult.
Just record it and keep the recording QT - you can fall back on it WHEN they start the pork pies, or distorting what was actually said at the meeting - afterall the recording is an accurate & precise record about what was agreed by BOTH parties at the meeting. Which is the important point here.
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