Discussion
There's a big debate going on in my office about the relative merits of the Lexus IS series (the 3 series lookalike). In one camp, there's those who think that it looks fantastic and it the best value for money around, and then there's me, who think that, whilst it's not an UGLY car, it's not outstanding by any measure, particularly if fitted with massiv' alloy wheels which makes it come across all MaxPower....
Oh, and as for the claim that "well, I'd go for the Lexus because there's too many 3 series about, bollox - there's as many Lexuses(pl?) around these days as Beemers. If I was spending my 20K on a new car, there's a lot of better options out there....
So, two questions for the PH'ers: 1) Am I completely on my own with views on the Lexus; and 2) assuming that you had 20K to spend, and you had to rule out anything with 2 (or 2 and a bit seats), what you buy? Just don't tell me it'd be a Lexus.....
CeeGee
ps I also think the new Lexus coupe looks like a fat bloated whale...a technically superior, ultra-reliable one to be fair, but a fat bloated one all the same...
(With apologies to all Lexus drivers
Oh, and as for the claim that "well, I'd go for the Lexus because there's too many 3 series about, bollox - there's as many Lexuses(pl?) around these days as Beemers. If I was spending my 20K on a new car, there's a lot of better options out there....
So, two questions for the PH'ers: 1) Am I completely on my own with views on the Lexus; and 2) assuming that you had 20K to spend, and you had to rule out anything with 2 (or 2 and a bit seats), what you buy? Just don't tell me it'd be a Lexus.....
CeeGee
ps I also think the new Lexus coupe looks like a fat bloated whale...a technically superior, ultra-reliable one to be fair, but a fat bloated one all the same...
(With apologies to all Lexus drivers
IMHO I find the IS300 estate a not particularly good LOOKING car but otherwise excellent. Way better than any beemer, roadholding IMHO better, interior well.....
eastern. price, cheaper as well (here than the higher specd 3series wagon) had real fun testing it but decided purely politically as a Brit that I should at last decide to drive a Brit car again (Jag S, being delivered tomorrow). What impressed me was although it's only with a slush box, it does have buttons on the wheel to change down/up with if you want to play. What is VERY intelligent however is, if you scream it, it'll change up when you get to the bloodline anyway, perhaps saving a later damaged cogbox(?)
Lexus, a bloody good car, styling a bit of japanese far-eastern barock which takes getting used to.....IMHO of course.
eastern. price, cheaper as well (here than the higher specd 3series wagon) had real fun testing it but decided purely politically as a Brit that I should at last decide to drive a Brit car again (Jag S, being delivered tomorrow). What impressed me was although it's only with a slush box, it does have buttons on the wheel to change down/up with if you want to play. What is VERY intelligent however is, if you scream it, it'll change up when you get to the bloodline anyway, perhaps saving a later damaged cogbox(?)
Lexus, a bloody good car, styling a bit of japanese far-eastern barock which takes getting used to.....IMHO of course.
My then business partner had an IS200, when I had a Prodrive modified Impreza Turbo, both cars cost £25K (the Lexus was fitted with the really cheapo SatNav option and an auto box). I really didn't like the Lexus at first as it felt small inside and sooooo slooooow.
But I did a big trip 500+ miles in a day when it had 70K on the clock and I found it to be comfortable and completely rattle free, though some of the dashboard trim is el cheapo plastic. Compared with the Impreza (which we sold at 53K miles) it was very relaxed and refined.
I think a lot boils down to the type of driving that you will do, if its mainly motorway and in traffic then the Lexus is a good tool (good standard stereo as well), but if you want to blatt about and your driving consists of a lot of A and B roads then go get an Impreza - 20K will get you one from Trade-Sales.
If you are true Pistonhead then you will know that the Lexus is the wrong choice.
DavidY
But I did a big trip 500+ miles in a day when it had 70K on the clock and I found it to be comfortable and completely rattle free, though some of the dashboard trim is el cheapo plastic. Compared with the Impreza (which we sold at 53K miles) it was very relaxed and refined.
I think a lot boils down to the type of driving that you will do, if its mainly motorway and in traffic then the Lexus is a good tool (good standard stereo as well), but if you want to blatt about and your driving consists of a lot of A and B roads then go get an Impreza - 20K will get you one from Trade-Sales.
If you are true Pistonhead then you will know that the Lexus is the wrong choice.
DavidY
I'd go for one over a 3 series but I hate BMWs. No real reason as to why I hat them I just do.
If I had to spend 20k on a saloon I'd get a second hand Evo 6 oh yes. If it had to be new I'd look at the new MGs or if I could stretch to it a new Impreza (with WRC style headlights though!!!)
If I had to spend 20k on a saloon I'd get a second hand Evo 6 oh yes. If it had to be new I'd look at the new MGs or if I could stretch to it a new Impreza (with WRC style headlights though!!!)
I think the thing with the Lexus IS200's compared against something like a BMW 3 series is the amount of kit you get as standard on a Lexus. With a BMW you get a fairly empty car and then have to start adding things to it from the options list which has the end result of pushing the total price of the car up. The Lexus on the other hand has most of the toys thrown in as standard and that will influence many drivers.
However, I too would go for an Alfa 156 if I had the choice - Italian flair or German functionality? Easy choice for me.
However, I too would go for an Alfa 156 if I had the choice - Italian flair or German functionality? Easy choice for me.
Hi guys,
The problem I have with the Lexus is that its just a re-badged Toyota Altezza (sp?), if Lexus are really trying to compete with the likes of BMW/Merc/Audi/Jaguar then they need to distance themselves from Toyota. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the IS200 just fitted with all the gizmos as standard whereas with the Toyota you have to specify them. Even with this I think you still pay a premium for the Lexus brand.
I agree with everyone else, for that sort of money I'd go for a 156 or maybe an MG.
John.
The problem I have with the Lexus is that its just a re-badged Toyota Altezza (sp?), if Lexus are really trying to compete with the likes of BMW/Merc/Audi/Jaguar then they need to distance themselves from Toyota. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the IS200 just fitted with all the gizmos as standard whereas with the Toyota you have to specify them. Even with this I think you still pay a premium for the Lexus brand.
I agree with everyone else, for that sort of money I'd go for a 156 or maybe an MG.
John.
quote:
But reliability? Alfa NO, BMW perhaps, Lexus top of the list in german reliability tests.... BMW down about position 30 with their BEST car, ALFA only just before Citroen.... Nuff said?
You mean someone actually wasted their time and money finding out Citroen's are craply built???
er-mobiles, it's just that this comes up frequently as the 'industry standard'. Personally, I'd think about going for a second hand S8. 20k is a tight budget. I'd have to get a scooby in an understated colour - black maybe. If I decided the max power look really wasn't to be it'd have to be an Alfa 156 / GTV for fun & looks. If you only spend that much on a bmw / typical rep mobile the engine will be really underpowered. Not much fun.
Fair point - I guess I don't drive enough miles a year to worry to much about reliability. However, if I was up and down the motorways every day it would effect my decision.
To be fair though I think that the majority of car these days are all going to be pretty reliable anyway because manufacturers have recognised that they will not break into the "executive" car market (or any) if their cars break down too often.
Feedback from high milage drivers is needed I think?
To be fair though I think that the majority of car these days are all going to be pretty reliable anyway because manufacturers have recognised that they will not break into the "executive" car market (or any) if their cars break down too often.
Feedback from high milage drivers is needed I think?
quote:
The only bit of the the baby Lexus I like is the dashboard dials. They are arranged like a chronograph watch and I think its a top styling idea.
20K on a new fleet car - easy - Alfa 156.
Matt.
Taste is a fickle thing, the chronograph dials were the one thing that really put me off it. Still, one man's meat...
By the way - all our guys who went for the Alfa have had a lot of electrical problems.
Got a 3 series myself - guess that make me a w@nker, sorry.
Steve - Err....yes :wink:
No, as you say, one's man meat, etc, etc.. Apologies for any generalisations.
As far as the rest of the thread's concerned, I'm slightly worried about this focus on reliability. OK, you can drive a Lexus round the world three times without any probelms but most modern cars are 'reasonably' reliable, and I'd be willing to trade off a slight drop in reliability for some character (Alfa 156 being a case in point) particularly if it was a company car.
BTW I drive an 8 year old Porsche, which starts every single time (but then again, I used to have a Citroen and it started every single time too...go figure)
No, as you say, one's man meat, etc, etc.. Apologies for any generalisations.
As far as the rest of the thread's concerned, I'm slightly worried about this focus on reliability. OK, you can drive a Lexus round the world three times without any probelms but most modern cars are 'reasonably' reliable, and I'd be willing to trade off a slight drop in reliability for some character (Alfa 156 being a case in point) particularly if it was a company car.
BTW I drive an 8 year old Porsche, which starts every single time (but then again, I used to have a Citroen and it started every single time too...go figure)
It's got to be the Alfa 156. I had the same choice to make a while back and came to much the same conclusions.
1 - I hate BMWs and the image they have
2 - I do quite like the IS200, but it's too bl00dy slow
Yes Alfas have a reliability stigma attached, but I was willing to risk this for a company maintained vehicle so took the plunge. I've just given the car back having completed 60k miles in 16months and not one single problem.
Do it!
1 - I hate BMWs and the image they have
2 - I do quite like the IS200, but it's too bl00dy slow
Yes Alfas have a reliability stigma attached, but I was willing to risk this for a company maintained vehicle so took the plunge. I've just given the car back having completed 60k miles in 16months and not one single problem.
Do it!
quote:
Steve - Err....yes :wink:
No, as you say, one's man meat, etc, etc.. Apologies for any generalisations.
As far as the rest of the thread's concerned, I'm slightly worried about this focus on reliability. OK, you can drive a Lexus round the world three times without any probelms but most modern cars are 'reasonably' reliable, and I'd be willing to trade off a slight drop in reliability for some character (Alfa 156 being a case in point) particularly if it was a company car.
I was just amused by how what one person finds the bigest selling point puts someone else off. It would be a boring old world if we all thought the same
Interestingly, the Alfa was a very expensive option as a company car last time I changed mine. It was just before the Lexus arrived but I seriously considered the Alfa.
Bimmers are a bit "love them or loathe them", I'm the former and make no bones about it but the bombproof residuals do drop the lease cost quite significantly compared with the Alfa which the trade attaches the Italian rust/unreliability stigma to. As a result you can get a loaded straight six BMW for the same or less money than a pretty basic 4-pot 156. For my money the BMW is a better all round car anyway but that's just me. I'd be the first to admit the Alfa looks prettier and has more flair.
If you've got a lump sum to spend it's the other way round, the Alfa is quite a bit cheaper but I guess you have to take the risk on the depreciation.
Chaps
I must say that I think the IS200 is a great car, my wife has a IS200 sport as a company car, it has rock solid built quailty, massive spec, it has one of the best standard audio systems I have ever hear and amazing brakes.
When I manage to get it off her, it gets a good thrashing, feels a little slow at first but when you winde it up it is surprising how well it goes and gives you great confidence when chucking it into corners.
We tested many cars before choosing the lexus, but for the spec/price/build you can't go wronge. It is the top of the range but is well worth the extra cash and after 40'000 mls in the first year it feels as good as new. which makes a nice change after driving the chim
I must say that I think the IS200 is a great car, my wife has a IS200 sport as a company car, it has rock solid built quailty, massive spec, it has one of the best standard audio systems I have ever hear and amazing brakes.
When I manage to get it off her, it gets a good thrashing, feels a little slow at first but when you winde it up it is surprising how well it goes and gives you great confidence when chucking it into corners.
We tested many cars before choosing the lexus, but for the spec/price/build you can't go wronge. It is the top of the range but is well worth the extra cash and after 40'000 mls in the first year it feels as good as new. which makes a nice change after driving the chim
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