Rise in Box Hill popularity causing friction...
Discussion
Just noticed this on the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-157734...
Apparently locals are getting miffed with the increased traffic on the 2012 cycle route.
Any of you box hill regulars noticed a difference in cycle traffic recently?
Dan
Apparently locals are getting miffed with the increased traffic on the 2012 cycle route.
Any of you box hill regulars noticed a difference in cycle traffic recently?
Dan
Boo f
king ho, in my view, you want to enjoy Box Hill you get out of your fking car and not use the beauty spot as a fking car park, walk up it, cycle up it, do whatever, nobody wants to be up there on a nice day in a traffic jam as everyone is struggling to get into the car park to buy some cake, look at the view, then bugger off again.
Having said all that, larger cycling clubs should do their runs early in the day to avoid the most of the traffic. Whenever I do a route with the club that takes in box on the weekend, we are up there probably at about 10am on a sunday.
And why the locals are miffed about bikes increasing as opposed to cars is beyond me.
"some riders were two abreast" What like the highway code suggests you mean?
What a load of st.
king ho, in my view, you want to enjoy Box Hill you get out of your fking car and not use the beauty spot as a fking car park, walk up it, cycle up it, do whatever, nobody wants to be up there on a nice day in a traffic jam as everyone is struggling to get into the car park to buy some cake, look at the view, then bugger off again.Having said all that, larger cycling clubs should do their runs early in the day to avoid the most of the traffic. Whenever I do a route with the club that takes in box on the weekend, we are up there probably at about 10am on a sunday.
And why the locals are miffed about bikes increasing as opposed to cars is beyond me.
"some riders were two abreast" What like the highway code suggests you mean?
What a load of s
t.robbyd said:
Have to say, as a cyclist and petrol-head, there's no reason anyone needs to ride two abreast if you can hear a car approaching or sitting behind. Go back into single file, let car past. Makes life easier for all concerned.
Isn't the two-abreast thing to make cars treat you like another car, i.e. to stop them squeezing past when there's only just enough room? I prefer not to ride two-abreast, but it's probably appropriate at times.I live a couple of miles from Box Hill and cycle up and down the zig zag a few times every single day when at home.
I have noticed an increase in cyclists over the last year or so. Bit of a no brainer bearing in mind it will feature so prominently in a 4 year event that we have not held since 1948 I would have thought.... Then again, it has always been extremely busy when all the clubs are there at the weekends in the morning.
When talking about 2 cyclists abreast, I will remain on topic and refer only to the zig zag. Up to the first hairpin, it is either not possible to overtake cyclists single file safely due to lack of visibility (150m from the initial junction due to right hand kink) or later it is wider to overtake when 2 abreast.
Round the first hairpin, visibilty is great for 400 or so metres. Cars can pass each other coming from opposite directions so how can a car be wider than 2 cyclists?
The top stretch is again wide enough to overtake in most places. There are a couple of places where it narrows slightly but this really is nit picking and whinging.
There are plenty of lanes near by (White Down for instance) where it is not possible to safely over take one cyclist yet I see these have not been targeted as an issue. All of these lanes are pretty much full of cyclists at the weekend and this has been the case for a long time (all surrey hill lanes around Abinger, Leith Hill etc.)
Everyone I know expects these lanes to have a fair few cyclists on them at these times and just get on with it like everyone else.
I have noticed an increase in cyclists over the last year or so. Bit of a no brainer bearing in mind it will feature so prominently in a 4 year event that we have not held since 1948 I would have thought.... Then again, it has always been extremely busy when all the clubs are there at the weekends in the morning.
When talking about 2 cyclists abreast, I will remain on topic and refer only to the zig zag. Up to the first hairpin, it is either not possible to overtake cyclists single file safely due to lack of visibility (150m from the initial junction due to right hand kink) or later it is wider to overtake when 2 abreast.
Round the first hairpin, visibilty is great for 400 or so metres. Cars can pass each other coming from opposite directions so how can a car be wider than 2 cyclists?
The top stretch is again wide enough to overtake in most places. There are a couple of places where it narrows slightly but this really is nit picking and whinging.
There are plenty of lanes near by (White Down for instance) where it is not possible to safely over take one cyclist yet I see these have not been targeted as an issue. All of these lanes are pretty much full of cyclists at the weekend and this has been the case for a long time (all surrey hill lanes around Abinger, Leith Hill etc.)
Everyone I know expects these lanes to have a fair few cyclists on them at these times and just get on with it like everyone else.
It is safer to cycle 2 or 3 abreast. It stops motorists attempting to squeeze past and potentially colliding with the cyclist.
If drivers wern't so impatient and realise that 30 secs behind a cyclist will make bugger all difference to their total journey time the better.
It would be a good idea if all motorists had to do a few hours cycling in both urban and rural settings to appreciate what its like.
And yes I do appreciate there are dangerous and agressive cyclists as well just to balance things out. No lights, running red lights etc.... As a motorist and cyclist I hate bad cyclists just as much as bad drivers.
If drivers wern't so impatient and realise that 30 secs behind a cyclist will make bugger all difference to their total journey time the better.
It would be a good idea if all motorists had to do a few hours cycling in both urban and rural settings to appreciate what its like.
And yes I do appreciate there are dangerous and agressive cyclists as well just to balance things out. No lights, running red lights etc.... As a motorist and cyclist I hate bad cyclists just as much as bad drivers.
Rob_T said:
GreatGranny said:
It would be a good idea if all motorists had to do a few hours cycling in both urban and rural settings to appreciate what its like.
couldn't agree more. i would go further to say that you cannot qualify for a driving license until you have done this.
On the day of the Olympic Road Race trial route. This is the entrance to a caravan site at the top of Box Hill, sensed some locals and caravan dwellers were not happy then. NIMBY's. Where as 100 yards down the road the owners of one house had set up BBQ in there front garden for spectators.
PS Used to trash up the Zig Zags 30 years ago on my motorbike most Sundays before the speed humps.
mikee boy said:
Gooby said:
The problem is many motorists dont believe that a cycle is traffic and somehow because they have a "tax disk" they have a greater right to the road than a cyclist.
The problem is that the motorists you describe are ignorant. Everybody has an equal 'right' to the road.
Riding 2 abreast or well out from the curb is a way to force the motorist to give the cyclist space, I cycle along on the roads with my wife, I tend to sit well out and cars come past wide, my wife tends to cycle close to the curb and at times it looks like the vehicle overtaking is an inch or two away from her handlebars. I know which one feels safer for me, the more s
t drivers I experience the further out I ride.Have to agree about staying off the kerb riding, something I learnt early on! There is too much st/potholes/drain covers that occasionally need swerving to avoid and some cars just never give you enough room.
Not sure what the answer is though. Like a lot of peoples attitudes to certain things in this country the easy thing is to say its about common sense and decency...guess there are still a lot of people who are not decent and lack sense!
t/potholes/drain covers that occasionally need swerving to avoid and some cars just never give you enough room.Not sure what the answer is though. Like a lot of peoples attitudes to certain things in this country the easy thing is to say its about common sense and decency...guess there are still a lot of people who are not decent and lack sense!
Engineer1 said:
the more st drivers I experience the further out I ride.
^^This^^t drivers I experience the further out I ride.Went out tonight in the Farnborough/Fleet area. A little misty/foggy, but nothing much really. Vast numbers of drivers seem to have accepted that visibility is reduced, judging by the numbers of front/rear fog lights in use, but VERY FEW bother with indicators when passing a bike. Not a problem for the first car, but other's following them often have no idea until last minute that there's a bike ahead of them that will need to be passed safely. Really wanted to ride to Leith/Box Hills today, after driving to Leith Hill yesterday to walk up to the tower, but didn't go out in the end due to the mist/fog that was hanging around this morning. Rule#5, I know, but there comes a time when discretion really is the better part of valour, so I stayed away from busy 'A' roads, and drove the wife to M&S, and then suffered the hell that is Sunday morning shopping at Tesco. I'm sure my first cycle trip to Box Hill will keep for another weekend! In the end I decided to ride out at around 5pm, and road/traffic conditions where bad enough to vindicate my decision. Ended up doing just under 22 miles.
An interesting further article and editorial regarding Box Hill and the N.T. appear in this week's Cycling Weekly, detailing the Trust's policy of charging organized events for a 'license' to take their event up the zig-zags. As a cyclist AND National Trust member, I'm not quite sure how to feel about this. If the N.T. are charging for cyclists to travel over the trust's property in organised events, then should they not equally seek to charge organised Classic Car/Motorcycle club events for the same. Perhaps this will end only when everyone is charged at a Toll Booth for access to the road/countryside in this area, or when the trust accept that cyclists contribute a large proportion of the Trust's income from the cafe at the top, and treat this road as most lay-people do, as a right of way, and allow free access for all. For what it's worth, the road surface on the zig-zag is in terrible shape, with pot-holes and worn out sections everywhere. Surely the least likely road-user group to have inflicted this damage is cyclists. Maybe the ultimate answer is to stop ALL motorised traffic on the hill, re-surface it, ditch the speed bumps and create a car-park at the bottom, then make everyone either walk or cycle up to the view at the top.
Engineer1 said:
mikee boy said:
Gooby said:
The problem is many motorists dont believe that a cycle is traffic and somehow because they have a "tax disk" they have a greater right to the road than a cyclist.
The problem is that the motorists you describe are ignorant. Everybody has an equal 'right' to the road.
Riding 2 abreast or well out from the curb is a way to force the motorist to give the cyclist space, I cycle along on the roads with my wife, I tend to sit well out and cars come past wide, my wife tends to cycle close to the curb and at times it looks like the vehicle overtaking is an inch or two away from her handlebars. I know which one feels safer for me, the more s
t drivers I experience the further out I ride.Riding two abreast is the same as "taking primary position" as a cyclist. What you are doing is making up the mind of the driver for him so the poor dear does not have to compute the odds of knocking you off if you were in "secondary position", ie. in the gutter or 1m from it. If he can't get past, he won't try.
Been a couple of good articles in "the Comic" (Cycling Weekly) over the last two weeks on the subject of road positioning for cyclists.
YouTube video illustrating road position for cyclists.
Primary v Secondary position
Also
Road positioning
Primary v Secondary position
Also
Road positioning
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