Learning to fly - aircraft ownership
Discussion
Saturday past I enjoyed my first flying lesson. It was a belting experience and all being well I plan on maintaining the tuition and seeing the training through.
I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
Only issue is that post tuition, purchase of such aircraft requires significant investment. What options are open to me? Is there widespread available to rent this type of aircraft for a weekend potter/European trip or is the done thing to make your own purchase/joint-ownership? How does one go about joint ownership?
Finally, can anyone point me in the direction of a good Autotrader style website for aircraft/microlights?
I'm happy to keep this topic updated with my tuition and progress if it would be of interest to anyone.
Lesson 1:
Basic principals of flight. Learning how to fly straight and narrow and taking a photograph of my house. The latter was not as straight forward as one would think, I live inside the restricted airspace south of Manchester airport and it became clear the chaps over at Manchester International were rather busy. Flight was on Sunday, I was told by a few regulars who had popped in to the airfield that it was one of the best days of flying in years. Visibility was unbelievable, clear blue skys and epic views. It really was an epic and great way to get me hooked on this hobby.
I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
Only issue is that post tuition, purchase of such aircraft requires significant investment. What options are open to me? Is there widespread available to rent this type of aircraft for a weekend potter/European trip or is the done thing to make your own purchase/joint-ownership? How does one go about joint ownership?
Finally, can anyone point me in the direction of a good Autotrader style website for aircraft/microlights?
I'm happy to keep this topic updated with my tuition and progress if it would be of interest to anyone.
Lesson 1:
Basic principals of flight. Learning how to fly straight and narrow and taking a photograph of my house. The latter was not as straight forward as one would think, I live inside the restricted airspace south of Manchester airport and it became clear the chaps over at Manchester International were rather busy. Flight was on Sunday, I was told by a few regulars who had popped in to the airfield that it was one of the best days of flying in years. Visibility was unbelievable, clear blue skys and epic views. It really was an epic and great way to get me hooked on this hobby.
Hoddo said:
Saturday past I enjoyed my first flying lesson. It was a belting experience and all being well I plan on maintaining the tuition and seeing the training through.
I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
If there are no medical reasons preventing you from getting a Class 2 medical, then I'd advise getting a JAR/EASA PPL in the first instance - the cost increase is marginal over the NPPL, and opens a number of options - if it's not too late, getting a UK IMC rating now may mean grandfather rights on whatever EASA dream up to follow it. If you have a JAR PPL, you can currently obtain an NPPL as a paperwork exercise, and if you want to revert back to that (and whatever EASA dream up to replace it) at some later stage. An IMC/Night qualification may stand you in good stead in later years even if you revert to a purely day VFR platform.I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
Hoddo said:
Only issue is that post tuition, purchase of such aircraft requires significant investment. What options are open to me? Is there widespread available to rent this type of aircraft for a weekend potter/European trip or is the done thing to make your own purchase/joint-ownership? How does one go about joint ownership?
A couple of rules of thumb. Other thumbs are available.1) If you're flying less than 30 hours a year, and the type you want to fly is available to rent (a lot of aerobatic / permit types are not) then renting - and putting up with the currency or minimum/maximum hire criteria required by the rental organisation - is probably the best way to go.
2) Aircraft ownership can make sudden, heart-stopping and often unexpected demands on your wallet. If you can't lay your hands on 25% of the hull value of your aircraft in short order to meet a maintenance bill, then think very, very hard before you buy outright. Group ownership softens the financial shocks considerably, and if you get involved in the running of the group is an excellent means of learning the ropes of aircraft ownership, invaluable if you eventually want to go down the sole ownership route.
Hoddo said:
Finally, can anyone point me in the direction of a good Autotrader style website for aircraft/microlights?
www.afors.com, www.thehangar.co.uk, and the back pages of Loop, Flyer, Pilot and the other mags, some of which host classifieds online. The best place to look is the notice-board of your local flying club - also useful for posting a 'Wanted' notice if you're in the market for a share, as well as 'For Sale' notices.Hoddo said:
I'm happy to keep this topic updated with my tuition and progress if it would be of interest to anyone.
Lesson 1:
Basic principals of flight. Learning how to fly straight and narrow and taking a photograph of my house. The latter was not as straight forward as one would think, I live inside the restricted airspace south of Manchester airport and it became clear the chaps over at Manchester International were rather busy. Flight was on Sunday, I was told by a few regulars who had popped in to the airfield that it was one of the best days of flying in years. Visibility was unbelievable, clear blue skys and epic views. It really was an epic and great way to get me hooked on this hobby.
Enjoy!Lesson 1:
Basic principals of flight. Learning how to fly straight and narrow and taking a photograph of my house. The latter was not as straight forward as one would think, I live inside the restricted airspace south of Manchester airport and it became clear the chaps over at Manchester International were rather busy. Flight was on Sunday, I was told by a few regulars who had popped in to the airfield that it was one of the best days of flying in years. Visibility was unbelievable, clear blue skys and epic views. It really was an epic and great way to get me hooked on this hobby.
I'm sure I will be corrected but on an NPPL the Euro trip thing is out of the questions, isn't it? I thouht France was sort of OK recognising it, if you informed them you where coming first but not other Euro countries?
Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
TVR1 said:
I'm sure I will be corrected but on an NPPL the Euro trip thing is out of the questions, isn't it? I thouht France was sort of OK recognising it, if you informed them you where coming first but not other Euro countries?
Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
The French are currently happy with an NPPL-SSEA, as long as you hold a JAR Class 2 medical.Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
Which is a bit like a nightclub bouncer saying you're allowed in wearing jeans, as long as you carry a pair of crisply-ironed chinos into the club with you.
Edited by eharding on Tuesday 8th November 00:18
eharding said:
Hoddo said:
Saturday past I enjoyed my first flying lesson. It was a belting experience and all being well I plan on maintaining the tuition and seeing the training through.
I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
If there are no medical reasons preventing you from getting a Class 2 medical, then I'd advise getting a JAR/EASA PPL in the first instance - the cost increase is marginal over the NPPL, and opens a number of options - if it's not too late, getting a UK IMC rating now may mean grandfather rights on whatever EASA dream up to follow it. If you have a JAR PPL, you can currently obtain an NPPL as a paperwork exercise, and if you want to revert back to that (and whatever EASA dream up to replace it) at some later stage. An IMC/Night qualification may stand you in good stead in later years even if you revert to a purely day VFR platform.I will be going for an NPPL, first lesson was in a fixed wing EuroStar which seemed like a cracking little thing and I plan on maintaining my learning in aircraft of this type (not flexwing).
JAR/EASA PPL ... ?
UK IMC rating ... ?
I am new to this so not familiar with these acronyms.
eharding said:
TVR1 said:
I'm sure I will be corrected but on an NPPL the Euro trip thing is out of the questions, isn't it? I thouht France was sort of OK recognising it, if you informed them you where coming first but not other Euro countries?
Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
The French are currently happy with an NPPL-SSEA, as long as you hold a JAR Class 2 medical.Also, I thought it was VFR only? You can't add any ratings to it? which may or may not bother the OP.
Which is a bit like a nightclub bouncer saying you're allowed in wearing jeans, as long as you carry a pair of crisply-ironed chinos into the club with you.
Hoddo said:
NPPL-SSEA ... ?
An NPPL with a Simple Single Engine Aircraft class rating attached to it (why they couldn't call it Single Engine Piston like everyone else, I don't know, since it still covers what some might regard as 'complex' types - retractable gear & wobbly props).As far as I'm aware, the French are happy for NPPL microlights to be flown there with the NPPL medical, but for SSEA they want a Class 2 medical as well.
eharding said:
Hoddo said:
NPPL-SSEA ... ?
An NPPL with a Simple Single Engine Aircraft class rating attached to it (why they couldn't call it Single Engine Piston like everyone else, I don't know, since it still covers what some might regard as 'complex' types - retractable gear & wobbly props).As far as I'm aware, the French are happy for NPPL microlights to be flown there with the NPPL medical, but for SSEA they want a Class 2 medical as well.
I am comfortable with the medical. Will focus on the NPPL for now and look at the conversions and medical when I attain the license.
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