increased biofuel content - will classics run on it?

[dev635]

I read in the paper this morning that next year, biofuel content, currently 5% ethanol in standard unleaded, is to increase to 10%. Article suggests pre 1993 cars will not be able to run on the stuff. Is this another problem for classic enthusiasts to overcome? Does anyone know much about this?

[fourfoldroot]

My austin seven runs on it with no problems whatsoever. However there are reports of it dissolving slosh tank sealant resulting in leaking fuel tanks. Apparently the old sealant can be dissolved out and replaced with ethanol resistant stuff.
http://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/gastank.htm

[LordBretSinclair]

95ron in Europe has had 10% ethanol for some time. I've done loads of miles in France in my 64 MGB with no problems.

[NHK244V]

it was the same with unleaded when it came out it rotted non neoprean fuel lines, no biggy to change them again.

[mikey77]

LordBretSinclair said:

95ron in Europe has had 10% ethanol for some time. I've done loads of miles in France in my 64 MGB with no problems.

Only 'E10' 95 ron has 10 per cent ethanol doesn't it? That's why it's a few centimes cheaper. The ordinary 95 unleaded doesn't.
My Vtech Prelude handbook says don't use it. My XJS 6L V12 handbook says it's OK. I'm avoiding it while I can.

[AJAX50]

Petrol is a mixture of many different types components, the content depends on where it was produced. For example some refineries (in the UK) have MTBE plants so there is ether in that fuel. Back in the 60's Cleveland advertised 100 octane petrol with alcohol added. I don't think 10% ethyl alcohol will cause any problems, except, maybe, if there is water/condensation present and the fuel is not used for some time. So if your not using your car for some time, leave it with little fuel in it.

[austin]

My Austin 7s are fine on it but only if it's fresh, ie it goes off and is useless after 2 weeks, same in the lawnmower.

I now just use super and they are fine.

[v8250]

Generally, we should all be oaky with 10% ethanol providing we don't use for too high a mileage. There are some issues with 10% ethanol in that at this level it could wash-out carbon deposits, wash-out between piston & cylinder, and there are many recorded cases of affecting certain types of oil seals. There have been some write-ups this year in the monthly magazines who have also confirmed representation for classic/sports car owners to this end with FBHVC & FIVA. There is current dialogue with FBHVC & FIVA as to the approval under new EU regs.

More info here: http://fbhvc.co.uk/bio-fuels/ [scrolldown to:]

1. Permitted ethanol content in petrol to rise from 5% to 10% in 2013
2. Recommendations for Materials Considered for Use in Ethanol and Ethanol/Gasoline Blend Applications

I'm assuming that any of us with rebuilt engines that have unleaded valve seats and updated seals should be okay; maybe a small adjustment being made to timing? However, the report focuses on fuel tanks and sealants, and the gumming-up of fuel lines, pumps, carbs etc.

I guess we'll have to wait and see the real effects post E10 and 2013.

[mph]

Could it affect SU fuel pump seals ?

The O ring seal in mine gave up the ghost and was a very peculiar shape when I took it out. It's since returned to it's normal shape.

I used the car in France last year.

[anonymous-user]

10% has been in use in Thailand for ages, and there are loads of old cars there, from my experience the only time I've ever known some one have a problem is if the fuel is left standing for a while time

[v8250]

mph said:

Could it affect SU fuel pump seals ? The O ring seal in mine gave up the ghost and was a very peculiar shape when I took it out. It's since returned to it's normal shape. I used the car in France last year.

yes, seals could be/are an issue with E10 fuels. it appears it does effect certain material types. also, cylinder bore washdown has been reported as an issue. i have read that both reported problems are being tested.

[lowdrag]

Having lived in France for 12 years I can report that I avoid the ethanol based fuel like the plague but that with over 60,000 miles under its wheels the E-type using 95 RON still runs the same fuel pump, fuel lines, filter, etc. and that the engine still consumes virtually no oil. In other words, no probs to report. And it doesn't pink either with the ignition retarded a tad so no need for 98 RON.

I have tried to find the Shell report on ethanol based fuels but can't find it. If anyone has it please post the web page please.

[a8hex]

with 10% ethanol in the fuel, I'm not sure how much water it will absorb, this could be an issue over winter if the car is left standing.

[guru_1071]

fourfoldroot said:

My austin seven runs on it with no problems whatsoever. However there are reports of it dissolving slosh tank sealant resulting in leaking fuel tanks. Apparently the old sealant can be dissolved out and replaced with ethanol resistant stuff.
http://www.caswelleurope.co.uk/gastank.htm

i can confirm that this does happen - my mini blocks the filter in the pump about every 500 miles with bits of the tank sealer, its becomming a real pain!

[volvos60s60]

Surely to prevent moisture absortion over the winter 'standing' period, just put clingfilm over the filler cap/overflow, but remember to remove it once back in use

[lowdrag]

Found two of the reports in oz. First, the report by Shell themselves:-

http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_...

Secondly, the report in Oz on the suitability by make and year of car. This relates to moderns but is important for all of us with ageing everyday transport:-

http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/all/all/all/3/...

[uberprutser]

It used to be a good idea to fill up the tank before the winter stop, to keep the tank from rusting from the inside. I guess this tip is no longer valid.

[lowdrag]

On the contrary, the original Shell report (the one I can't find since it seems Shell have taken it off their site) recommended filling up before laying the car up for winter to avoid the risk of hygroscopic absorption.

[anonymous-user]

Interesting that Low drag said shell have taken that report about filling tanks for the winter off the site, Living in the tropics fuel evaporates quickly when a car is left and also water is absorbed due to high humidity, shell is much worse than other fuels for this, leave the car or bike for too long with shell and the car runs awfull, leave a saucer of shell out and the fuel evaportates and leaves a red resadue which is what I believe blocks the jet.
My policy is never to use shell fuel unless I know I am going to use the tank full, so I never buy shell on my home trips,

[anonymous-user]

lowdrag said:

On the contrary, the original Shell report (the one I can't find since it seems Shell have taken it off their site) recommended filling up before laying the car up for winter to avoid the risk of hygroscopic absorption.

Sounds right to me. The only place the fuel can draw in moisture is at the fuel/air boundary. If the tank is brim full then there is only a very small area of fuel in contact with air so little absorption. If the tank is half full then you have the entire area of the tank exposed. As the air warms and cools as the temperature in your garage goes up and down the fuel and air will expand and contract thus continually drawing in fresh moist air.