Scrapping Relegation- Thoughts?
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15336398....
"Several foreign-owned Premier League clubs want to scrap relegation, according to League Managers Association (LMA) chief Richard Bevan.
Bevan fears that if more clubs are sold to foreign investors they may have enough votes to force changes.
But the Premier League said relegation and promotion were part of its rules and added to league's strength.
Bevan hopes that a parliamentary inquiry into football goverance would also help prevent the proposal.
"We're very keen that the report is successful in helping the Football Association introduce a licensing programme for clubs," he said.
"Because there are a number of overseas-owned clubs already talking about bringing about the avoidance of promotion and relegation in the Premier League.
"If we have four or five more new owners, that could happen."
Nearly half of the Premier League's 20 clubs are under foreign ownership, with rules stipulating that if changes are to be made to the format, 14 clubs must vote in favour of any new reforms.
Blackburn joined the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea in this class when they were taken over by Indian-owned Venky's Group last season.
But the Premier League told BBC Sport that the move would be a non-starter, with the Football Association retaining the power to veto any proposals.
A Premier League spokesman also said that they did not recognise LMA chief executive Bevan's claims, which come a week after the government demanded changes to the way that football is run.
Sports minister Hugh Robertson said that an FA-led licensing system would be brought in to safeguard against issues such as financial mismanagement, asset-stripping owners and tax avoidance.
The government also asked for rules to manage club debts and an overhaul of the FA board.
Last Wednesday, Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre also said the Premier League's overseas television revenues should be skewed in favour of big clubs."
Thoughts? IMO it would be a bad move, The clubs in the lower leagues would have nothing to aim for. Whilst the bottom half of the Premier League wouldn't have to worry about dropping down, Wouldn't the league just stagnate?
"Several foreign-owned Premier League clubs want to scrap relegation, according to League Managers Association (LMA) chief Richard Bevan.
Bevan fears that if more clubs are sold to foreign investors they may have enough votes to force changes.
But the Premier League said relegation and promotion were part of its rules and added to league's strength.
Bevan hopes that a parliamentary inquiry into football goverance would also help prevent the proposal.
"We're very keen that the report is successful in helping the Football Association introduce a licensing programme for clubs," he said.
"Because there are a number of overseas-owned clubs already talking about bringing about the avoidance of promotion and relegation in the Premier League.
"If we have four or five more new owners, that could happen."
Nearly half of the Premier League's 20 clubs are under foreign ownership, with rules stipulating that if changes are to be made to the format, 14 clubs must vote in favour of any new reforms.
Blackburn joined the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea in this class when they were taken over by Indian-owned Venky's Group last season.
But the Premier League told BBC Sport that the move would be a non-starter, with the Football Association retaining the power to veto any proposals.
A Premier League spokesman also said that they did not recognise LMA chief executive Bevan's claims, which come a week after the government demanded changes to the way that football is run.
Sports minister Hugh Robertson said that an FA-led licensing system would be brought in to safeguard against issues such as financial mismanagement, asset-stripping owners and tax avoidance.
The government also asked for rules to manage club debts and an overhaul of the FA board.
Last Wednesday, Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre also said the Premier League's overseas television revenues should be skewed in favour of big clubs."
Thoughts? IMO it would be a bad move, The clubs in the lower leagues would have nothing to aim for. Whilst the bottom half of the Premier League wouldn't have to worry about dropping down, Wouldn't the league just stagnate?
It wouldn't ever happen.
The other point about Liverpool wanting skewed TV payments is terrible too, it would mean a greater disparity between the clubs and there is enough of that already. We'd just end up with somehting like the Spanish league where there are 2 teams who go through the season winning most games 6-0.
The other point about Liverpool wanting skewed TV payments is terrible too, it would mean a greater disparity between the clubs and there is enough of that already. We'd just end up with somehting like the Spanish league where there are 2 teams who go through the season winning most games 6-0.
A lot of smaller club fans would be happy not to be promoted. The financial mess of being promoted to the PL and being unable to compete, but attempting to by stretching financially, has ruined many clubs.
I'd be quite happy if, under the current PL format and without a sugar-daddy, Watford were never promoted again.
I'd be quite happy if, under the current PL format and without a sugar-daddy, Watford were never promoted again.
Without relegation, for the majority of clubs in the PL there would be little point in playing at all. And several clubs have come up from the Championship and made a good fist of it in the PL, without incurring huge debts. What would be the point in playing in the Championship if you had no reward for finishing in the top two?
Football has become a business, not a game, and the fans are mere cash machines to drive the wheels of commerce. It used to be about supporting your team with some being a little more equal than others, now it´s whose pocket is largest wins to some extent.
I´ve gone off the game generally, the national games have less importance, the champions league is a measure of which 4 teams have most money and the Premier league an opportunity to exploit the majorty.
No relegation, as a Championship team supporter, it would mark the end of ambition for my team and possibly many others. It would also kill off much of the Premier league as only 5 teams would be worth watching and the end of the season dogfight would become a non-entity.
Perhaps it´s worth doing, it might bankrupt the game and bring it back to reality and the fans who pay billions to support it.... then again, I´m more and more convinced that real football happens in parks and small stadiums and that the Premier league will destroy itself given enough time & greed.
Not a rant, just a sad indictment of the fact that football has changed for the worse and is no longer a game, but a business run by the rich for the rich
I´ve gone off the game generally, the national games have less importance, the champions league is a measure of which 4 teams have most money and the Premier league an opportunity to exploit the majorty.
No relegation, as a Championship team supporter, it would mark the end of ambition for my team and possibly many others. It would also kill off much of the Premier league as only 5 teams would be worth watching and the end of the season dogfight would become a non-entity.
Perhaps it´s worth doing, it might bankrupt the game and bring it back to reality and the fans who pay billions to support it.... then again, I´m more and more convinced that real football happens in parks and small stadiums and that the Premier league will destroy itself given enough time & greed.
Not a rant, just a sad indictment of the fact that football has changed for the worse and is no longer a game, but a business run by the rich for the rich
Edited by The jiffle king on Monday 17th October 17:16
Puggit said:
A lot of smaller club fans would be happy not to be promoted. The financial mess of being promoted to the PL and being unable to compete, but attempting to by stretching financially, has ruined many clubs.
I'd be quite happy if, under the current PL format and without a sugar-daddy, Watford were never promoted again.
That's a good argument for good governance. It is not a good argument against a competitive league structure.I'd be quite happy if, under the current PL format and without a sugar-daddy, Watford were never promoted again.
In a system where teams can go up or down, and a third or a quarter of each division is churned every year, most teams have something to play for throughout all or nearly all of the season, and next year, whether you went up, went down, or stayed still, you have a different set of challenges ahead.
Surprised we haven't heard anything from the Bolton chairman. Must be at least a year since he was last in the press about no relegation or making the Prem into a 2 league structure.
It would be interesting to see what the FIFA/UEFA take on no relegation would be. The only league I can think of without relegation/promotion is the US, and the argument would be I suppose that it is still expanding each year. All other leagues I can think of all have promotion/relegation even if they have slightly different rules on how it is carried out.
I really enjoyed Blackpool's year in the Prem, but would I want to be in there continually fighting relegation, getting beat comfortably by the top 5 or 6 and then hoping we could get a win against the other bottom half teams.
I would much prefer to do as a couple of other teams seem to do, get promoted, stay for 1 or possibly 2 seasons and be in a good financial position and be a top Championship team.
It would be interesting to see what the FIFA/UEFA take on no relegation would be. The only league I can think of without relegation/promotion is the US, and the argument would be I suppose that it is still expanding each year. All other leagues I can think of all have promotion/relegation even if they have slightly different rules on how it is carried out.
I really enjoyed Blackpool's year in the Prem, but would I want to be in there continually fighting relegation, getting beat comfortably by the top 5 or 6 and then hoping we could get a win against the other bottom half teams.
I would much prefer to do as a couple of other teams seem to do, get promoted, stay for 1 or possibly 2 seasons and be in a good financial position and be a top Championship team.
Let's face it, football's always been about money, it's just channelled in a different direction.
Where did all the money go in the 1930's when 50/60000 used to pack into Old Trafford, Maine Road, Highbury etc every week, when players were paid £7pw?
Spurs paid £99,999 for Jimmy Greaves, United £116,000 for Denis Law from Torino in the early sixties when the average man's wage was £20pw.
Also, IIRC, promoted clubs get around £30m from the Premier league, and a hefty parachute payment if they get relegated to the Championship.
Scrapping relegation?...A non starter.
Where did all the money go in the 1930's when 50/60000 used to pack into Old Trafford, Maine Road, Highbury etc every week, when players were paid £7pw?
Spurs paid £99,999 for Jimmy Greaves, United £116,000 for Denis Law from Torino in the early sixties when the average man's wage was £20pw.
Also, IIRC, promoted clubs get around £30m from the Premier league, and a hefty parachute payment if they get relegated to the Championship.
Scrapping relegation?...A non starter.
They want US-style franchises I guess - the financial certainty that brings is much better for the shareholders. But it loses a bit of the magic; I like the idea that in a little less than a quarter of a century it's possible for Pease Pottage Village 'B' to be playing in the Champions League.
Wacky Racer said:
Also, IIRC, promoted clubs get around £30m from the Premier league, and a hefty parachute payment if they get relegated to the Championship.
Blackpool got £39m from just being in the Prem for the one year, and assuming we don't get promoted in the next 4 years we will get another £48m (16,16,8,8) in parachute payments, so a total of £87m. 'Where the money went'. I think our turnover before our promotion was around £10m, so I suppose with doubling of crowds, hospitality, merchandise etc our 1yr in the Prem will have given us £100m+. If you do get promoted again any outstanding parachute payments due get split between the other teams in the Championship.
When you see those figures you can see why teams overstretch themselves trying to get to the Prem. I think the TV money for the Championship teams is about £4m
Edited by Russ35 on Tuesday 18th October 00:36
davepoth said:
They want US-style franchises I guess - the financial certainty that brings is much better for the shareholders. But it loses a bit of the magic; I like the idea that in a little less than a quarter of a century it's possible for Pease Pottage Village 'B' to be playing in the Champions League.
You must be from the Horsham area...Pease Pottage...

Back on track though...
Like last weeks Liverpool-boardroom inspired suggestion that Clubs make their own TV deals this suggestion by (primarily) the foreign owners shows a complete lack of knowledge of how football in this (and other) countries works.
Without relegation the pond of the premier league will eventually become 'stagnant', interest all over the world will wane and the last few weeks of the season will lose a lot of their interest for much of the country and a lot of the overseas viewers.
These new owners clearly want an American style Franchise system over here with built in safeguards. How would the likes of Leeds etc ever reclaim their place in the EPL?
It's a nonsense but I fear that these types of issues are set to rear their ugly heads more and more over the coming years. The game sold its soul to these people long ago and now they want their pound of flesh.
I have no problem with them buying our clubs and injecting their cash into it but I do baulk at their trying to change its governance. They bought it because they saw how attractive it was already - now leave that side of it alone please.
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