Advice for a wannabe racer...

[buzzeh123]

Hi All,

I was after some advice about getting involved in motorsport. (ive had a trawl through the posts but cant really find anything similar).

I currently have a mk5 Fiesta Zetec-S as a toy, which i want to get going on the circuit in,
Current specs are:
1.7 Puma Engine,
AP Coilovers (Only height adjustable sadly)
full milltek 4-2-1 and exhaust system, filter, polybushed all round, sitting on 16" OZ Superturismos with Toyo T1R's

I gather ill need to fit a roll cage and strip her down for the weight, but is there anything else i should be thinking of doing?

Also which series/competitions should i be looking at entering and any idea of a rough budget?

Any help would be much appreciated,
Cheers
Buzz

[Classic Grad 98]

buzzeh123 said:

Also which series/competitions should i be looking at entering and any idea of a rough budget?

IMO this should be RIGHT at the top of your priority list. If you're going to build a race car you need to know that theres a competition in which it can be entered legally and competetively, otherwise you end up with an expensive experience and a car you can't sell at the end.
For a start, most series don't permit a lot of the work you've already done i.e. engine conversions, and those that do tend to be silhouette series frequented by very fast and very expensive motors.
You may find that you need to return the car to near standard for you to be able to meet the regulations of the right race series.
Do some homework, visit some race paddocks, meet some people and make sure that you're entering a series in which you can be competetive with your budget.

[buzzeh123]

Classic Grad 98 said:

IMO this should be RIGHT at the top of your priority list. If you're going to build a race car you need to know that theres a competition in which it can be entered legally and competetively, otherwise you end up with an expensive experience and a car you can't sell at the end.
For a start, most series don't permit a lot of the work you've already done i.e. engine conversions, and those that do tend to be silhouette series frequented by very fast and very expensive motors.
You may find that you need to return the car to near standard for you to be able to meet the regulations of the right race series.
Do some homework, visit some race paddocks, meet some people and make sure that you're entering a series in which you can be competetive with your budget.

Right, understood! Ive heard TinTops and Super Saloons(?) are the way to go?

The engine conversion was done as the origonal engine had blown up and a pal had a puma engine with only 22k on it, seemed like a good idea at the time, and i beleive the 1.6 and the 1.7 are identical other than the headwork (VCT etc), is this going to be a serious issue?

Im struggling with getting to know people involved, Is it the done thing to just turn up at a circuit wander around and speak to teams? I always thought the paddock area would have been off limits..

I know im sounding like a clueless idiot in regards to this, please treat me like one lol!

Was kind of hoping there would be some competitors on here who could give me a rough idea with similar cars.

Thanks
Buzz

[FlyInMySoup]

Classic Grad is absolutely correct, also when you've decided what you want to do, break your emotional attachment with your current car and buy something already prepared and a known quantity. This will save you a fortune, you'll have enough on your plate competing without worrying about whether your car will pass scrutineering. If you enjoy the spannering aspect and worry you will miss out by not building your own car then don't, I guarantee you will lose many weekends and evenings just keeping the bl**dy thing going for a season....

What category do you want to compete in? Race/Rally/Autotest.... What budget do you have roughly? Let me know and I'll give you some budget info.

[buzzeh123]

FlyInMySoup said:

Classic Grad is absolutely correct, also when you've decided what you want to do, break your emotional attachment with your current car and buy something already prepared and a known quantity. This will save you a fortune, you'll have enough on your plate competing without worrying about whether your car will pass scrutineering. If you enjoy the spannering aspect and worry you will miss out by not building your own car then don't, I guarantee you will lose many weekends and evenings just keeping the bl**dy thing going for a season....

What category do you want to compete in? Race/Rally/Autotest.... What budget do you have roughly? Let me know and I'll give you some budget info.

Ok, your right with the emotional attachment, the cars been in the family since it rolled out of the factory (i know its only a fiesta but i grew up driving it, lots of memories!)

As much as i would love to do the spannering side of it myself (i do have some knowledge as me and my pal fitted the puma engine etc) but i would be totally out of my depth troubleshooting/maintanance etc so maybe it would be best to buy something already built.

At first i want to get involved in circuit racing, once i get a better knowledge (and budget!) i would move onto rallying, ive done a couple of "Rally Experiences" and although i know its novice, the instructor did say i was very natural and quick. Rallying is where id like to be in 3-5 years time ideally.

Budget wise im quite lucky as im 22, working in IT in the City of London, I could quite easily cover 10k to start with (i.e building or buying the car, getting it prepped and a seasons worth of entrys/consumables), if this is too small a budget i could sort more out if nessessary.

I do kind of want it to be a labour of love, but in the same sense i dont want to be chasing being competitive in a car thats going to cost shed loads to sort out (i.e my current motor).

Thanks alot for your help with this its much appreciated, (p.s ARDS test is booked for late november)

[andy97]

buzzeh123 said:

Right, understood! Ive heard TinTops and Super Saloons(?) are the way to go?

Im struggling with getting to know people involved, Is it the done thing to just turn up at a circuit wander around and speak to teams? I always thought the paddock area would have been off limits..

I know im sounding like a clueless idiot in regards to this, please treat me like one lol!

Was kind of hoping there would be some competitors on here who could give me a rough idea with similar cars.

Thanks
Buzz

You will certainly be welcome to turn up to a CSCC meeting and wander round the paddock & talk to people we are a friendly bunch! No such thing as a clueless idiot really. Not really many "teams" competing in Tin Tops either, just a few racers helped by their mates usually!

Pop along to Snetterton on saturday 22 Oct & you will be able to see & meet a lot of the CSCC Tin Top competitors & I'm sure that all will be happy to chat.

I'm a CSCC Tin Top racer (although won't be at Snett due to car maladies) but I recommend it highly as a well run & fun series thats ideal for the club level competitor. You also gets lots of track time for your money & you can share your car in 2 driver races if you want (ie share the costs).

I'm not sure about the engine swap - CSCC Tin Tops mandates "the same type of engine" & it may be that the Puma engine is the same type as the fiesta engien. You'd have to provide more detail to the club. However, it is always cheaper to buy an already prepared car than prep your own & the performance on track is almost certainly going to be better initially than trying to develop your own car.

If you like your fords and want to race one, have a look at these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3317835.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2043458.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3110465.htm

There are also MX5s & Porsche 924s available for c£3500 which can be used both in their own respective series or in CSCC "Future Classics"

If you have any questions feel free to ask or PM.

[buzzeh123]

andy97 said:

You will certainly be welcome to turn up to a CSCC meeting and wander round the paddock & talk to people we are a friendly bunch! No such thing as a clueless idiot really. Not really many "teams" competing in Tin Tops either, just a few racers helped by their mates usually!

Pop along to Snetterton on saturday 22 Oct & you will be able to see & meet a lot of the CSCC Tin Top competitors & I'm sure that all will be happy to chat.

I'm a CSCC Tin Top racer (although won't be at Snett due to car maladies) but I recommend it highly as a well run & fun series thats ideal for the club level competitor. You also gets lots of track time for your money & you can share your car in 2 driver races if you want (ie share the costs).

I'm not sure about the engine swap - CSCC Tin Tops mandates "the same type of engine" & it may be that the Puma engine is the same type as the fiesta engien. You'd have to provide more detail to the club. However, it is always cheaper to buy an already prepared car than prep your own & the performance on track is almost certainly going to be better initially than trying to develop your own car.

If you like your fords and want to race one, have a look at these:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3317835.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2043458.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3110465.htm

There are also MX5s & Porsche 924s available for c£3500 which can be used both in their own respective series or in CSCC "Future Classics"

If you have any questions feel free to ask or PM.

This is exactly what i was looking for, thanks.

It would be me and a few spanner monkey pals who would be doing it so TinTops does sound ideal. I read a blog the other day (Burpspeed?) and it looks great i really want to get involved. Snetterton is probably the closest to me other than maybe Brands (im from south Essex) so i will try my best to get down and have a chat

As for the engine the Puma engine is the same engine as the ZetecSE lump it just has slightly larger capacity and Varible Cam timing (saying that if i tune the engine the VCT would be removed for some angry cams/TB's, ive just had a look and theres a class for 1600-1800 16v cars so that would be ideal? Ill have to find out whether the engine would be legal of course..

Thanks alot for the cars listed, i will check them out, i am a blue oval fanboy for my sins

I am really getting excited about this, hopefully i will be competing against you guys in the future

[FlyInMySoup]

Your budget is realistic, but please buy a ready prepared car and focus on your driving. With a previously raced car you will know the lap times it can do which gives you a benchmark and will stop you going into the classic tailspin of is it me or the car that's rubbish. Also, if you sell up you'll get most of your money back. Rough costs:

Entry to 10 rounds £2K- £3K
Travel to circuit £1K
Tyres (treads) £1K, double that for slicks.
Fixing stuff that breaks £1K

This is for something in a reasonably standard state of tune. Move away from that and it's very easy to drop £5K-10K plus on an engine, even a 1600.

Have fun!

[Classic Grad 98]

Exciting times I know, don't let me put a dampner on it for you- it's just you're going about it from a slightly arse-about-tits angle!
What you need to be thinking about is what sort of racing you want, where you want to do it, what budget you'll have, how competitive you want to be etc etc. As the previous poster said, you may have to go back to the beginning to chose the car and try not to fix yourself by getting bogged down with prejudices and loyalties etc...
Let us know what your goals are re: level and type of competition and we can help further. Hopefully some of the 750mc guys will be along to tell you about stock hatch etc.
Also remember this is club motorsport, not formula 3! of course you can e-mail the raceclubs- they'll invite you to their weekends. The paddocks are open and you'll gain a lot from just turning up, absorbing the vibe and talking to competitors.

[Classic Grad 98]

P.S. Come race with us Caterham Graduates :-P

[chris_w]

Classic Grad 98 said:

What you need to be thinking about is... where you want to do it

I think this is quite an important point that you need to decide early on - do you want to follow a national series (like CSCC) which will offer greater circuit variety but at a greater cost (in time and money) or stick to something more local and convenient in which case have a look at the BARC Tin Tops series which is more SE based:

http://www.rodbirley.com/2011_Calendar.htm

[buzzeh123]

Right i am taking all of your points on board, specially about the picking the car before choosing what i want to do with it being backwards! Im glad i was near enough with the budget too.

When it comes to the actual racing, i know alot of people go there for the "fun" side of it, this is not my bag, i am a super competitive person (ask my brother he hates me for it lol) and would get really frustrated if i couldnt compete at the top of whatever class/series im in, from trackdays / the one or two instructions ive taken i beleive im a pretty quick and controlled driver, i really want to get into the club side of it, then hopefully get into higher forms of racing (when i have a bigger budget/more experience/a few trophies hehe ) I dont want to sound like im taking it for granted, i know its not easy and ive seen the effort the front runners put in via blogs and threads on various car sites, but i would be 110% committed to it.

If it would be too hard for me with my lack of mechanics expertise to build and improve a car myself i would prefer to buy something competitive then spend any extra on getting it to an even higher level.

Racing caterhams would be great, but im sure they are quite expensive to buy?

Again thanks for all the input guys, i will definately try to get in the paddock and speak to as many people as i can, which car clubs should i be looking at living in Essex?

Cheers
Buzz

[claryclan]

Somewhat earlier you said you wanted to be in rallying in 3 - 5 years time. Why, therefore, are you looking to start racing? If rallying is your goal then I'd suggest that's where you want to start.

[Classic Grad 98]

^ I missed that completely.
For rallying, you need a different test and license, a radically different car AND a completely different driving discipline. If that's where you want to be, that's where you should start. Buy a ready built <1400cc car.

[Carnage]

If you want to race Caterhams, mine is for sale at a gnat's over your budget, with lots of spares - http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3189286.htm . With sportscars, you will be amazed at how little they cost to maintain compared to saloons - the light weight really does reduce consumables.

I also race with CSCC, and find them a good enjoyable club with the longer races being pretty good for novices. Driving standards are good, too, and they go to all the good circuits.

Good luck with your ARDS!

[Burp]

buzzeh123 said:

I read a blog the other day (Burpspeed?) and it looks great i really want to get involved.

Hi, Hope you found the blog usefull. But as said if Rallying is where you want to be then forget circuit racing. it might as well be football and golf, two competeley different disiplines. There is plenty of entry level club rallying out there to get your teeth into.

[KeithR]

buzzeh123 said:

When it comes to the actual racing, i know alot of people go there for the "fun" side of it, this is not my bag, i am a super competitive person (ask my brother he hates me for it lol) and would get really frustrated if i couldnt compete at the top of whatever class/series im in, from trackdays / the one or two instructions ive taken i beleive im a pretty quick and controlled driver, i really want to get into the club side of it, then hopefully get into higher forms of racing (when i have a bigger budget/more experience/a few trophies hehe ) I dont want to sound like im taking it for granted, i know its not easy and ive seen the effort the front runners put in via blogs and threads on various car sites, but i would be 110% committed to it.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to win, but I assure you if you go into racing for the first time with that attitude, you're going to have an very frustrating time!

Racing on a circuit with 25-30 other cars on the limit is no trivial thing! In the two years I did motor racing (Stock Hatch and Classic Group 1 Touring Cars) I never got anywhere near the front. You'll be up against competitors with years of race craft under their belts and, no matter how good you think you are, there's no substitute for that experience.

It's important that you approach your first years in motor racing with the right mindset, and that should be to develop your driving skills, meet people, but most of all have fun! If you enjoy your racing then, with determination and deep pockets, being competitive will eventually follow.

As some people have already said, look into various racing clubs and the series they organise, consider your budget and get yourself to some race meetings. At club level, these are usually very open and friendly. You're free to wander the paddock and drivers are often more then happy to give advice. I also agree with most on here that you should buy a ready prepared car that is proven in a particular series. If you go along to race meetings towards the end of a season, many drivers often have their cars for sale.

Good luck and have fun!

[NJH]

Well said that man. The advice I had a few years back from someone who has raced all his life was that your doing well not to get lapped in your early races. The best fun I have had in a car was a few weeks back in a race I finished something like 25th, had a really good battle with a lad in a similar car of similar experience level.

I think track days have a lot to answer for in this regard. Its pretty easy to look like a hero on a track day even in a fairly ordinary race car then turn up at some real racing and get yer arse handed to you.

[wildman0609]

NJH said:

I think track days have a lot to answer for in this regard. Its pretty easy to look like a hero on a track day even in a fairly ordinary race car then turn up at some real racing and get yer arse handed to you.

very true.

you need to go in to motorsport with the right attitude. over the years i have seen so many people come and go in the sport and its down to them getting frustrated with not being able to get near the experienced guys. you need to be able to enjoy a close battle for the last couple of places in your first years.

[NJH]

Another point to make is that from the outside its easy to think the slow guys have no talent or are not trying. Take this clip of that little rookie battle I described;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5EQHaLWZJo
Nobody can say I wasn't trying and its clear I have pretty quick reactions, look at Maggots/Becketts the sudden shove of the wheel to the right is not aggresive steering its because one of the back wheels had just locked making the arse end step out into the direction of turn then grip again.

Then bare in mind my times were 8 seconds a lap slower than the fastest similar car and the OP will have some idea how big the challenge is.