What is F1 as opposed F2 & F3 etc...?
Discussion
i assume theres technical diffs between F1 to F3 racing - an if so then what are they?
an are there races in - F4, F5, an F6 etc
ps- i assume 'F10' would be where they race shopping trolleys downhill
pps- after seeing how boring F1 has become since ferarri learnt how to win, i reckon they should reclassify it as 'F-off racing'
an are there races in - F4, F5, an F6 etc
ps- i assume 'F10' would be where they race shopping trolleys downhill
pps- after seeing how boring F1 has become since ferarri learnt how to win, i reckon they should reclassify it as 'F-off racing'
The term F1 was coined in 1948 when the internatinal governing body decided to re-brand the "Grand Prix" class of motor racing (which had existed in various guises since 1906). The initial F1 spec was for cars with 4.5 litre normally aspirated cars and 1.5 litre supercharged cars. A lower "Formula" called Formula 2 was also instigated at the same time for cars with 2.5 litre normally aspirated engines.
In 1950 a Drivers World Championship for Formula 1 races was creatted although for many years a large portion of F1 races held each year were non-point scoring and outside the World Championship.
Due to a massive reduction in available cars, in 1952 and 1953 the World Championship was run to the F2 regulations.
In 1954 a new F1 spec was introduced which allowed cars of 2.5 litres and no supercharging - essentially the "old" F2 rules. This continued up to the end of 1960 when F1 engines were reduced to 1.5 litres. In the mid 1950s the FIA introduced a Formula 3 specification which was based around the 500 cc formula used by a British national championship which had begun just after World War 2. This F3 was itself replaced in the early 60s by an Italian specification which became known as Formula Junior. Despite its Italian origins, it was British manufacturers, particularly Lotus and Brabham, who ended up dominating Formula Junior. In the mid 60s, Formuala Junior was itself replaced by a revised Formula 3.
F1 continued to change. In 1966, 3 litre engines were specified and other changes were made to F2 and F3.
Throughout the 60s, many F1 drivers competed concurrently in F2 races (indeed, two times World Champion Jim Clark was killed in 1968 in an F2 race at Hockenheim).
By the 1980s however, the FIA felt that the F2 category was declining and decided to replace it by F3000. As the name implies, 3 litre engines are mandated for this series, the idea being to use up ex-F1 3 litre engines and therefore keep costs down. The new F3000 came in in 1985. By then F1 had become all 1.5 litre turbos so the assumption was that there were lots of redundant 3 litre ex F1 engines available.
F3000 has never really lived up to expectations and next year will be replaced by (wait for it............) F2!
At the moment, the progression up the ranks to F1 is not that well structured. F3000 is virtually superfluous. Many new drivers go straight from F3 to F1 and there has even been a few cases of young drivers going from Formula Ford or Formula Renault stright into F1 - often as a test driver.
In 1950 a Drivers World Championship for Formula 1 races was creatted although for many years a large portion of F1 races held each year were non-point scoring and outside the World Championship.
Due to a massive reduction in available cars, in 1952 and 1953 the World Championship was run to the F2 regulations.
In 1954 a new F1 spec was introduced which allowed cars of 2.5 litres and no supercharging - essentially the "old" F2 rules. This continued up to the end of 1960 when F1 engines were reduced to 1.5 litres. In the mid 1950s the FIA introduced a Formula 3 specification which was based around the 500 cc formula used by a British national championship which had begun just after World War 2. This F3 was itself replaced in the early 60s by an Italian specification which became known as Formula Junior. Despite its Italian origins, it was British manufacturers, particularly Lotus and Brabham, who ended up dominating Formula Junior. In the mid 60s, Formuala Junior was itself replaced by a revised Formula 3.
F1 continued to change. In 1966, 3 litre engines were specified and other changes were made to F2 and F3.
Throughout the 60s, many F1 drivers competed concurrently in F2 races (indeed, two times World Champion Jim Clark was killed in 1968 in an F2 race at Hockenheim).
By the 1980s however, the FIA felt that the F2 category was declining and decided to replace it by F3000. As the name implies, 3 litre engines are mandated for this series, the idea being to use up ex-F1 3 litre engines and therefore keep costs down. The new F3000 came in in 1985. By then F1 had become all 1.5 litre turbos so the assumption was that there were lots of redundant 3 litre ex F1 engines available.
F3000 has never really lived up to expectations and next year will be replaced by (wait for it............) F2!
At the moment, the progression up the ranks to F1 is not that well structured. F3000 is virtually superfluous. Many new drivers go straight from F3 to F1 and there has even been a few cases of young drivers going from Formula Ford or Formula Renault stright into F1 - often as a test driver.
I thought they were going to call it F2GP?
Anyway, whatever they do, it probably will still have no relevance to F1.
F1 is such a unique category of motorsport now that very little of what a driver "learns" (apart from being used to travelling at high speed) helps in their F1 career. That's why so many of the new F1 drivers are leapfrogging what used to be considered essential "learning" formulae.
F1 needs to go back to its motorsport roots - before it disappears up its own behind.
Anyway, whatever they do, it probably will still have no relevance to F1.
F1 is such a unique category of motorsport now that very little of what a driver "learns" (apart from being used to travelling at high speed) helps in their F1 career. That's why so many of the new F1 drivers are leapfrogging what used to be considered essential "learning" formulae.
F1 needs to go back to its motorsport roots - before it disappears up its own behind.
Not many winners in F3000 have won a F1 race. I can only think of Alesi, Coulthard, Herbert, Irvine and Panis. There were of course lots more F2/F1 winners.
Most young talent these days skip F3000 and go straight from F3 to a F1 testing (with scope to race) role or even straight to a race drive. Didn't Kimi Raikkonen come from Formula Renault to F1?
Most young talent these days skip F3000 and go straight from F3 to a F1 testing (with scope to race) role or even straight to a race drive. Didn't Kimi Raikkonen come from Formula Renault to F1?
Yes - that's what I meant. If F1 is the "pinnacle" of motorsport - how come young lads can hop from a fairly low powered, low tech car into an F1 car and find that the F1 car is not that difficult. OK, we all know that getting the last 1% of maximum performance is the really difficult part of F1 - but that applies to any form of racing car. The fact is, many young drivers can jump into an F1 car and start turning in respectable lap times fairly quickly. Can't be right, can it?
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 16th June 19:14
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 16th June 19:14
From what every driver who steps into an F1 for the first time says it's always the braking power that amazes them, just how late they can go. They never mention the speed.
So I think speed is relative no matter what formula they compete in, if they only have braking points to learn it's not a long learning process and with all the technical data amassed from the on-board telemetry and a few testing sessions it doesn't take too long.
It's handling the horsepower that should be difficult for them. The most power drivers will have experienced before F1 is about 300 bhp - probably less. Yet, they acclimatise very easily to the 900 bhp of current F1 engines without too much difficulty. The reason why is because of all the electronic gizmos which sit between the driver and the engine. Why should it be easy for them?
I've always liked President Kennedy's famous saying "We do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are HARD". The same should be true for any top line activity - whatever it happens to be.
I've always liked President Kennedy's famous saying "We do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are HARD". The same should be true for any top line activity - whatever it happens to be.
FourWheelDrift said:
So I think speed is relative no matter what formula they compete in, if they only have braking points to learn it's not a long learning process and with all the technical data amassed from the on-board telemetry and a few testing sessions it doesn't take too long.
I remember reading somethign Damon Hill said once: the first time he got into an F1 car after the winter brake, he was amazed by the acceleration and the speed. Then after 5-10 laps he got used to it and wanted more. I suspect that leaving the braking until you are into the corner is not natural and takes quite some getting udse to: the natural reaction is to brake early, not late...
Currently :
F1 - 3 litre - 900 bhp (approx)
F3000 - 3 litre - 450 bhp approx
F3- 2 litre -not sure about the bhp, maybe 300 max.
The term Formula 4 has been used at times but it was never part of the "graduation" process leading to F1.
In the past, other formulae have sometimes served as stepping stones for drivers such as Formula Atlantic, Formula 5000, Formula Junior and Formula 2.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th June 08:54
F1 - 3 litre - 900 bhp (approx)
F3000 - 3 litre - 450 bhp approx
F3- 2 litre -not sure about the bhp, maybe 300 max.
The term Formula 4 has been used at times but it was never part of the "graduation" process leading to F1.
In the past, other formulae have sometimes served as stepping stones for drivers such as Formula Atlantic, Formula 5000, Formula Junior and Formula 2.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th June 08:54
Eric Mc said:
Currently :
F1 - 3 litre - 900 bhp (approx)
F3000 - 3 litre - 450 bhp approx
F3 - 2 litre -not sure about the bhp, maybe 300 max.
The term Formula 4 has been used at times but it was never part of the "graduation" process
ok, but as F2 is missing from the above table, does that mean F3000 is the new name for F2?
an just for the record, would F4 specs be...
1 litre, 200 bhp, 150 mph...?
Did you read my post of 11 June where I tried to set out a rough history of the categories?
There is no F4 at present - and F4 has NEVER been an internationally (i.e FIA) recognised category. What's more, whenever F4 has been created, it was not a standard formula throughout the world - so, in effect, the term F4 is almost meaningless.
In reality, there is and never really has been, a hard and fast series of steps to F1. Over the years the lower formulae have waxed and waned in importance and the graduation process has varied over the decades. The only time there really seemed to be a simple F3, F2, F1 "promotion" system was probably from about 1968 to about 1980. Even then, F1 drivers could have emerged out of totally different classes of racing, like Formula Atlantic, Formula 5000 or Indycar and Can Am racing.
In fact, during a lot of that period, many drivers were taking part in F2, Can Am, Indycars etc AT THE SAME TIME they were competing in F1 (Jackie Stewart and Mario Andretti spring to mind straight away). Racing drivers did a lot more RACING in those days.
There is no F4 at present - and F4 has NEVER been an internationally (i.e FIA) recognised category. What's more, whenever F4 has been created, it was not a standard formula throughout the world - so, in effect, the term F4 is almost meaningless.
In reality, there is and never really has been, a hard and fast series of steps to F1. Over the years the lower formulae have waxed and waned in importance and the graduation process has varied over the decades. The only time there really seemed to be a simple F3, F2, F1 "promotion" system was probably from about 1968 to about 1980. Even then, F1 drivers could have emerged out of totally different classes of racing, like Formula Atlantic, Formula 5000 or Indycar and Can Am racing.
In fact, during a lot of that period, many drivers were taking part in F2, Can Am, Indycars etc AT THE SAME TIME they were competing in F1 (Jackie Stewart and Mario Andretti spring to mind straight away). Racing drivers did a lot more RACING in those days.
vic, Eric has done a great job of trying to explain the various categories to you, but I think we should emphasize that the 'Formula' structure of racing has never been rigid. There is no correlation between speed, engine capacity and power output across the spectrum, and no militaristic 'rank' between one formula and another.
In a way it's a pity the word 'formula' was ever used because it seems to have caused nothing but confusion, and as Eric says, F1 drivers can come from all sorts of categories without graduating by means of a stereotyped ladder. If they're good they'll come to the surface anyway!
As an example of how it all constantly changes, ultra-powerful 1.5 litre supercharged cars were Grand Prix cars when at the same time tiny 500cc cars were referred to as F3. There has never been a stable hierarchy, so you just have to learn from Autosport or something like that - not ideal in every respect (!), but useful if you need more general racing knowledge.
In a way it's a pity the word 'formula' was ever used because it seems to have caused nothing but confusion, and as Eric says, F1 drivers can come from all sorts of categories without graduating by means of a stereotyped ladder. If they're good they'll come to the surface anyway!
As an example of how it all constantly changes, ultra-powerful 1.5 litre supercharged cars were Grand Prix cars when at the same time tiny 500cc cars were referred to as F3. There has never been a stable hierarchy, so you just have to learn from Autosport or something like that - not ideal in every respect (!), but useful if you need more general racing knowledge.
There are now too many formulas and different combinations. Here are a few suggestions to make better racing.
2.5 litre V6, V8, stright 4 or 6 engines, manual gearboxes, IRL type chassis.
This formula would replace IRL, Cart, F1, GP2, Formula Nippon, Infinity Pro series, Nissan world series. Chassis and engines would be free but gearboxes restricted to H gate.
F1 would then only consist of teams that deserve to be there and allow more teams to compete in the Indy 500.
F3 would remain unchanged and become F2 as a learner ground.
The new F3 would be for bike engined cars of 1000cc and be a cheaper way to get into racing.
FF has been let go but one make single series should be culled as they are too expensive.
any other ideas?
2.5 litre V6, V8, stright 4 or 6 engines, manual gearboxes, IRL type chassis.
This formula would replace IRL, Cart, F1, GP2, Formula Nippon, Infinity Pro series, Nissan world series. Chassis and engines would be free but gearboxes restricted to H gate.
F1 would then only consist of teams that deserve to be there and allow more teams to compete in the Indy 500.
F3 would remain unchanged and become F2 as a learner ground.
The new F3 would be for bike engined cars of 1000cc and be a cheaper way to get into racing.
FF has been let go but one make single series should be culled as they are too expensive.
any other ideas?
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