The Men Who Killed the Luftwaffe
Discussion
Oh dear what an utterly pompous title. I was under the impression that it was senior Officers within the Luftwaffe, war office, and one Mr Hitler who were one of the biggest killers of the Luftwaffe.
The review doesn't even have the decency to use the phrase 'part they played in...the triumphant victory'
The review doesn't even have the decency to use the phrase 'part they played in...the triumphant victory'
Not an unreasonable conclusion I think, although it was a two-pronged attack. Day and night bombing of German industry had reduced supplies of new airplanes, parts and fuel, and P51s and P47s not only helped the bombers get to their targets but were effective in dealing with what the Luftwaffe sent up. I think it was Goering who said that when he saw P51s over Berlin he knew the war was lost.
By the end of 1944 the Luftwaffe was a spent force, crippled by shortages of fuel, spares and experienced pilots; as the advancing Allied armies overan the airfields it was only going to end one way. Operation Bodenplatte, the final mass Lufwaffe offensive on 1 Jan '45, was a strategic failure as the Allies made up their losses in two weeks; the Luftwaffe could not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte
By the end of 1944 the Luftwaffe was a spent force, crippled by shortages of fuel, spares and experienced pilots; as the advancing Allied armies overan the airfields it was only going to end one way. Operation Bodenplatte, the final mass Lufwaffe offensive on 1 Jan '45, was a strategic failure as the Allies made up their losses in two weeks; the Luftwaffe could not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 14th July 13:31
If anyone would like to inform Colonel Stout about how tactless his title is, then one can e-mail said Colonel (Retired) here http://www.jayastout.com/
Simpo Two said:
Not an unreasonable conclusion I think, although it was a two-pronged attack. Day and night bombing of German industry had reduced supplies of new airplanes, parts and fuel, and P51s and P47s not only helped the bombers get to their targets but were effective in dealing with what the Luftwaffe sent up.
By the end of 1944 the Luftwaffe was a spent force, crippled by shortages of fuel, spares and experienced pilots; as the advancing Allied armies overan the airfields it was only going to end one way. Operation Bodenplatte, the final mass Lufwaffe offensive on 1 Jan '45, was a strategic failure as the Allies made up their losses in two weeks; the Luftwaffe could not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte
Really? "...U.S Army Air Corps to its triumphant victory over the formidable Luftwaffe." There are certainly a few Poles, Czech, Canadian, kiwi, not to mention British pilots who might take umbridge with that statement.By the end of 1944 the Luftwaffe was a spent force, crippled by shortages of fuel, spares and experienced pilots; as the advancing Allied armies overan the airfields it was only going to end one way. Operation Bodenplatte, the final mass Lufwaffe offensive on 1 Jan '45, was a strategic failure as the Allies made up their losses in two weeks; the Luftwaffe could not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bodenplatte
rhinochopig said:
If anyone would like to inform Colonel Stout about how tactless his title is, then one can e-mail said Colonel (Retired) here http://www.jayastout.com/
done"With regard to your book with the above title, I am no historian but speaking as a Brit whose father flew against the Luftwaffe I am pretty sure that the US Army Air Corp were not alone in their valiant battle, in fact the memorial at RAF Duxford can name quite a few…from all over the world who died to save the free world.
I have no doubt the content of your book is accurate but the title is inaccurate and, let's be honest, pretty insulting, perhaps you could consider changing it."
Apache said:
rhinochopig said:
If anyone would like to inform Colonel Stout about how tactless his title is, then one can e-mail said Colonel (Retired) here http://www.jayastout.com/
done"With regard to your book with the above title, I am no historian but speaking as a Brit whose father flew against the Luftwaffe I am pretty sure that the US Army Air Corp were not alone in their valiant battle, in fact the memorial at RAF Duxford can name quite a few…from all over the world who died to save the free world.
I have no doubt the content of your book is accurate but the title is inaccurate and, let's be honest, pretty insulting, perhaps you could consider changing it."
rhinochopig said:
Really? "...U.S Army Air Corps to its triumphant victory over the formidable Luftwaffe." There are certainly a few Poles, Czech, Canadian, kiwi, not to mention British pilots who might take umbridge with that statement.
There are indeed, and all nationalities fought with equal vigour, including the Germans. The USAAF did not do it alone but were by far the largest part of the equation. The sheer scale of US operations was fantastic.No Americans = no VE Day, simple as that.
Simpo Two said:
rhinochopig said:
Really? "...U.S Army Air Corps to its triumphant victory over the formidable Luftwaffe." There are certainly a few Poles, Czech, Canadian, kiwi, not to mention British pilots who might take umbridge with that statement.
There are indeed, and all nationalities fought with equal vigour, including the Germans. The USAAF did not do it alone but were by far the largest part of the equation. The sheer scale of US operations was fantastic.No Americans = no VE Day, simple as that.
A reply
"Although the title is--as you indicated--somewhat provocative, the book does declare that the RAF's airmen were perhaps the best trained throughout the war. It also suggests that the RAF might very well have saved the western world when it prevailed at the Battle of Britain. It further outlines the unstinting support and welcome from the British in helping to get the USAAF into place so that it could begin operations. It recognizes and lauds the British contribution to the defeat of the Luftwaffe (as I do). It describes the relationship, mostly cordial and cooperative, between the leaders of Great Britain and the United States. And it recognizes Great Britain's technical prowess.
On the other hand, there is no denying that the RAF's operations did little to eliminate the Luftwaffe over Europe at the strategic level. Rather it was the huge daytime operations by the Eighth Air Force, and later the Fifteenth, that were the prinicple factor in grinding the German Air Force into nothing. The RAF and the Red Air Force played supporting roles.
I will offer that no serious historian challenges the book's thesis, and further encourage you to find the book at a library and take time to read it. It is a scholarly work made readable enough to be a popular history.
I apologize for the affront I've caused and hope that you'll think better of me and the book now that I've (hopefully) explained it more clearly. And I congratulate your father's service and his part in winning the war.
Warm regards,
Jay Stout "
"Although the title is--as you indicated--somewhat provocative, the book does declare that the RAF's airmen were perhaps the best trained throughout the war. It also suggests that the RAF might very well have saved the western world when it prevailed at the Battle of Britain. It further outlines the unstinting support and welcome from the British in helping to get the USAAF into place so that it could begin operations. It recognizes and lauds the British contribution to the defeat of the Luftwaffe (as I do). It describes the relationship, mostly cordial and cooperative, between the leaders of Great Britain and the United States. And it recognizes Great Britain's technical prowess.
On the other hand, there is no denying that the RAF's operations did little to eliminate the Luftwaffe over Europe at the strategic level. Rather it was the huge daytime operations by the Eighth Air Force, and later the Fifteenth, that were the prinicple factor in grinding the German Air Force into nothing. The RAF and the Red Air Force played supporting roles.
I will offer that no serious historian challenges the book's thesis, and further encourage you to find the book at a library and take time to read it. It is a scholarly work made readable enough to be a popular history.
I apologize for the affront I've caused and hope that you'll think better of me and the book now that I've (hopefully) explained it more clearly. And I congratulate your father's service and his part in winning the war.
Warm regards,
Jay Stout "
Hmmm - not altogether convincing. The overrunning of the oilfields in the East by the advancing Soviet armies diod more to ground the Luftwaffe than the number of aircraft shot down by US.
The one thing that the escorted American daylight raids did do was produce a gradual loss of highly experienced Luftwaffe aces - although many of those had already been lost on other fronts.
The one thing that the escorted American daylight raids did do was produce a gradual loss of highly experienced Luftwaffe aces - although many of those had already been lost on other fronts.
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