Utilities

[Disco_Dale]

With British Gas increasing their prices by a fairly staggering margin, am I alone in thinking that privatising the utilities was a huge mistake in retrospect? I realise that on Pistonheads that opens me up to the inevitable "omg, burn teh commie" and "why don't you move to China" mouthbreathers" but hey ho.

We were sold the lie that increased competition would lower prices and increase choice. Well the former certainly didn't happen (ever seen a more effective cartel?) and the latter is bullsh*t frankly.

People don't want to spend several hours/days working out which supplier "saves them money" every few months for such fundamental and essential services. Most people just want them supplied at a fair price and have got plenty else on their plate to worry about without yet another bunch of theiving shysters to play off against each other. It all comes out of the same pipe/plug socket, so stop the silly games, invest profits in the infastructure rather than lining shareholders pockets.

If anyone wants to seriously argue that the situation we're in now, with more than half our energy suppliers owned by foreign companies is better than before they were sold off is preferable, fire away.

[Ozzie Osmond]

It's called a "complex monopoly". Essentially you get ripped off by a group of people acting together rather than just one big one acting alone.

The "regulator" is supposed to be there to prevent this. But since their "regulator" utterly failed to reign in the banks our utilities have realised they can grab themselves a nice big slice of the same selfish pie.

[Blue Oval84]

• Rising wholesales, massively rising
• "Green" investments in FIT and windfarms etc.
• CERT
• A seriously dilapidated energy supply network that requires mega investment
• New power stations needed before our lights go out

Now take all of the above into account and check out Ofgem's own figures that show the average profit per dual fuel customer to be about £90 per year. So let's say that's split evenly, it means that across a year, £3.75 per fuel per month goes towards the profits of domestic supply.

So if the suppliers operated at breakeven, you'd save less than £8 per month.

My Sky subscription costs more than three times that!

[Smiler.]

Disco_Dale said:

"why don't you move to China"

No need, they already own what used to be EDF's power network

Electricerly

[HurryUpAndWait]

Disco_Dale said:

We were sold the lie that increased competition would lower prices and increase choice. Well the former certainly didn't happen (ever seen a more effective cartel?) and the latter is bullsh*t frankly.

I think the point is that increased competition would lower prices compared to where they would have been without the increased competition, non? The only way it would be cheaper now and state-controlled is if there were government subsidies, which you and I would pay for through taxation. No such thing as a free lunch chap.

[Steffan]

With all the consequences of the economic downturn upon us this is going to become a real nightmare for families.

Faced with redundancy and short time working overlaid with steady cost of living rises and meteoric transport cost the average family is going to be drowned with totally massive energy costs.

I do not think that there is anything the wage earners can do. There will be widespread hardship and misery.

It is going to get more and more difficult to house, feed and cloth a family.

The stratospheric energy costs are just ONE of the problems.

I am afraid the current wage earners with a young family will be the first generation, where living standards and remaining spendable income after living costs have been met, will be the first to be unable to equal the standards of their parents.

Very sad but inevitable.

Our economic position is steadily falling and has done so for the least 40 odd years.

[Mojooo]

going? its already been a hassle for many families for a few years.

[Steffan]

Mojooo said:

going? its already been a hassle for many families for a few years.

Quite right post 1970s.

Unfortunately the rate of descent into serious economic difficulty is increasing, steadily.

It is going to get worse, then even worse, then more worse still.

Cannot see ANY sign of a recovery.

[Mojocvh]

Mojooo said:

going? its already been a hassle for many families for a few years.

You're not wrong.

[MartyPubes]

Steffan said:

I am afraid the current wage earners with a young family will be the first generation, where living standards and remaining spendable income after living costs have been met, will be the first to be unable to equal the standards of their parents.

Very true.

[MartyPubes]

bus pass said:

Where did it all go so wrong for many of Thatchers children, whilst it seems that many of Blairs children live the life of riley on benifits?

Someone has to pay for the things promised to the baby boomers.

I'm not too sure about the relative cost of utilities/fuel/food, but certainly home ownership is no longer a realistic prospect to many for whom it would previously have been possible. My parents were married and home owners by the time they were 20, these days the people doing the same jobs would at best live in a shared house.

[NorthernBoy]

Steffan said:

With all the consequences of the economic downturn upon us this is going to become a real nightmare for families.

Faced with redundancy and short time working overlaid with steady cost of living rises and meteoric transport cost the average family is going to be drowned with totally massive energy costs.

The average family in the UK has a flat screen television, a modern car, holidays abroad once a year, and has a subscription to sky. They eat meat every day, go to the cinema and eat out quite often, and have simply never considered spending less than they earn, to build up a fund for in case times get a bit harder.

So they will now have to consider going to the pictures a bit less, wearing an extra jumper, or only going to Marbella every second year.

The average family will not "drown" under this, they'll just be a little bit worse off.

[NorthernBoy]

bus pass said:

Things are getting really very silly. £300 p/w on fuel between two cars...


... I'm getting dam close to drowning, to not being able to afford to pay for and provide the very basics for my family.

So you're spending £15,000 per year on fuel, but are close to not being able to afford the essentials?

Is this what "drowning" has become?

[DSM2]

bus pass said:

Things are getting really very silly. £300 p/w on fuel between two cars, £120 p/w on food and grocerys, (we ain't on Champagne and caviar here), and in the winter £40+ p/w on gas and electric?

With all due respect, is it really necessary or even vaguely so, to spend £300 per week on fuel?

I don't think so....................

[Ozzie Osmond]

What some of these numb-nuts fail to appreciate is that if you have net income of £12,000 and the cost of a year's basics is, say, £12,000 then as soon as those costs rise to £12,001 you're in trouble. So 18% on energy costs will certainly have you struggling. Meanwhile, someone earning £60k might barely notice the change.

[NorthernBoy]

bus pass said:

800+ miles per week for me, and a full tank for the wife. So yes, unless I want to have a dam long walk.

What do you think I'm doing? Track Days every other day?

No-one's saying that you shouldn't drive, or have a nice car, or eat out, but you are taking the piss if you do all this, spend fifteen thousand pounds a year on petrol, but then claim that people like you will "drown" from a couple of hundred extra pounds a year on the home heating bill.

If you were genuinely struggling, you could drive a more economical car, and save thousands per year, not hundreds.

[Blue Oval84]

I suppose to a certain extent it depends upon what you call a "basic".

To me, my basics include a few things that could be sacrificed such as running two cars when I can get away with one, having an entry level Sky+ HD subscription when I could make do with freeview (even though it's crap!) buying clothes from branded stores rather than Primark (not that I buy clothes that often).

There are ways that I could cut my spending back a little if I had to. I appreciate that not everyone is in the position though.

[thinfourth2]

Disco_Dale said:

With British Gas increasing their prices by a fairly staggering margin, am I alone in thinking that privatising the utilities was a huge mistake in retrospect? I realise that on Pistonheads that opens me up to the inevitable "omg, burn teh commie" and "why don't you move to China" mouthbreathers" but hey ho.

If you think they were government run they would be cheaper and better run?

No chance they would be ramped the prices up for green issues, be hugely inefficient and i would take 4 weeks of form filling just to pay your bill.

[ZeeTacoe]

NorthernBoy said:

bus pass said:

Things are getting really very silly. £300 p/w on fuel between two cars...


... I'm getting dam close to drowning, to not being able to afford to pay for and provide the very basics for my family.

So you're spending £15,000 per year on fuel, but are close to not being able to afford the essentials?

Is this what "drowning" has become?

He might actually be one of the people who see a benefit to buying a diesel. £120 a week on food? In these parts that feeds a family of four with room to spare

[speedyman]

But would the buying power of one company and with no dividends to pay i.e. former British Gas be better than having what we have now, multiple smaller energy companies (with Multiple CEO saleries) and dividends to pay.
I am not convinced that the selling of "some" of our state industries has produced the results which were expected at the time of privitisation.