So it's not just us then!
Discussion
Well, I say 'us', I was actually driving to work this morning, but I couldn't help noticing what happened.
I was on a fairly busy single carriageway (cutting through some parkland on the edge of London) in a group of cars approaching a miniature tractor - the sort the council uses for verges and so on. In the opposite direction, a car was just exiting a blind corner about 150 yards ahead of the tractor when a Merc on my side pulled out to overtake it. I winced a bit when I saw it. But then a woman in a 3-Series following him decided to overtake too! The oncoming car had to put two wheels on the verge to avoid her.
Although it was a tractor on this occasion the whole thing seemed sickeningly familiar. Almost imediately after the corner there's a far, far safer overtaking opportunity - certainly if you're following a vehicle going at tractor speed - and yet they couldn't wait 20 seconds to get there. It's exactly the sort of thing that poses the biggest threat to cyclists too, and I just don't understand it.
I drive that road every day and virtually never see anyone reaching the national speed limit, even when it's completely clear. In fact, most of the local residents are so unused to vaguely rural roads that they act as moving chicanes to any keen drivers wanting to press on. So why, oh why, oh why do the same people go for suicidal gaps when presented with someone going a bit slower?
I was on a fairly busy single carriageway (cutting through some parkland on the edge of London) in a group of cars approaching a miniature tractor - the sort the council uses for verges and so on. In the opposite direction, a car was just exiting a blind corner about 150 yards ahead of the tractor when a Merc on my side pulled out to overtake it. I winced a bit when I saw it. But then a woman in a 3-Series following him decided to overtake too! The oncoming car had to put two wheels on the verge to avoid her.
Although it was a tractor on this occasion the whole thing seemed sickeningly familiar. Almost imediately after the corner there's a far, far safer overtaking opportunity - certainly if you're following a vehicle going at tractor speed - and yet they couldn't wait 20 seconds to get there. It's exactly the sort of thing that poses the biggest threat to cyclists too, and I just don't understand it.
I drive that road every day and virtually never see anyone reaching the national speed limit, even when it's completely clear. In fact, most of the local residents are so unused to vaguely rural roads that they act as moving chicanes to any keen drivers wanting to press on. So why, oh why, oh why do the same people go for suicidal gaps when presented with someone going a bit slower?
Chris71 said:
Well, I say 'us', I was actually driving to work this morning, but I couldn't help noticing what happened.
I was on a fairly busy single carriageway (cutting through some parkland on the edge of London) in a group of cars approaching a miniature tractor - the sort the council uses for verges and so on. In the opposite direction, a car was just exiting a blind corner about 150 yards ahead of the tractor when a Merc on my side pulled out to overtake it. I winced a bit when I saw it. But then a woman in a 3-Series following him decided to overtake too! The oncoming car had to put two wheels on the verge to avoid her.
Although it was a tractor on this occasion the whole thing seemed sickeningly familiar. Almost imediately after the corner there's a far, far safer overtaking opportunity - certainly if you're following a vehicle going at tractor speed - and yet they couldn't wait 20 seconds to get there. It's exactly the sort of thing that poses the biggest threat to cyclists too, and I just don't understand it.
I drive that road every day and virtually never see anyone reaching the national speed limit, even when it's completely clear. In fact, most of the local residents are so unused to vaguely rural roads that they act as moving chicanes to any keen drivers wanting to press on. So why, oh why, oh why do the same people go for suicidal gaps when presented with someone going a bit slower?
staggers me when on my bike and see cars pulling out to overtake and expecting oncoming traffic (sometimes doing 60mph) to brake or pull right over to the verge to allow them to complete the move. One of these days someone coming the other way will be fiddling with a phone or a radio and I will be lucky if I avoid being caught up in the horrendous accident that will ensue. If I am OK, I am sure as hell making sure the oncoming car's occupants are fine until help arrives, overtaking tw@t can rot in his wreckage as far as I would care in those circumstances. (Might check he has no kids in the back if its on fire or something, but wouldn't go near the driver, might be tempted to finish him off!)I was on a fairly busy single carriageway (cutting through some parkland on the edge of London) in a group of cars approaching a miniature tractor - the sort the council uses for verges and so on. In the opposite direction, a car was just exiting a blind corner about 150 yards ahead of the tractor when a Merc on my side pulled out to overtake it. I winced a bit when I saw it. But then a woman in a 3-Series following him decided to overtake too! The oncoming car had to put two wheels on the verge to avoid her.
Although it was a tractor on this occasion the whole thing seemed sickeningly familiar. Almost imediately after the corner there's a far, far safer overtaking opportunity - certainly if you're following a vehicle going at tractor speed - and yet they couldn't wait 20 seconds to get there. It's exactly the sort of thing that poses the biggest threat to cyclists too, and I just don't understand it.
I drive that road every day and virtually never see anyone reaching the national speed limit, even when it's completely clear. In fact, most of the local residents are so unused to vaguely rural roads that they act as moving chicanes to any keen drivers wanting to press on. So why, oh why, oh why do the same people go for suicidal gaps when presented with someone going a bit slower?
Hope that just remains a macabre scenario but with the standards of driving at the moment I would not be remotely surprised to see a head-on crash - like you say, most likely within 200m of a piece of road where it could be done safely. All you can do is ride in the middle of the lane and make it obvious it isn't safe to pass, returning towards the left when it is, but that just seems to encourage some of the biggest idiots to do even worse passes!
zebedee said:
staggers me when on my bike and see cars pulling out to overtake and expecting oncoming traffic (sometimes doing 60mph) to brake or pull right over to the verge to allow them to complete the move. One of these days someone coming the other way will be fiddling with a phone or a radio and I will be lucky if I avoid being caught up in the horrendous accident that will ensue. If I am OK, I am sure as hell making sure the oncoming car's occupants are fine until help arrives, overtaking tw@t can rot in his wreckage as far as I would care in those circumstances. (Might check he has no kids in the back if its on fire or something, but wouldn't go near the driver, might be tempted to finish him off!)
Hope that just remains a macabre scenario but with the standards of driving at the moment I would not be remotely surprised to see a head-on crash - like you say, most likely within 200m of a piece of road where it could be done safely. All you can do is ride in the middle of the lane and make it obvious it isn't safe to pass, returning towards the left when it is, but that just seems to encourage some of the biggest idiots to do even worse passes!
Sadly you won't get the opportunity. The overtaker will swerve in to avoid the accident, taking you out in the process, and continue to his or her destination.Hope that just remains a macabre scenario but with the standards of driving at the moment I would not be remotely surprised to see a head-on crash - like you say, most likely within 200m of a piece of road where it could be done safely. All you can do is ride in the middle of the lane and make it obvious it isn't safe to pass, returning towards the left when it is, but that just seems to encourage some of the biggest idiots to do even worse passes!
The oncomer will be oblivious to your presence, if your relatives are lucky then the driver of the car behind you will have some recollection of the make, model and reg of the vehicle that hit you.
IroningMan said:
Sadly you won't get the opportunity. The overtaker will swerve in to avoid the accident, taking you out in the process, and continue to his or her destination.
The oncomer will be oblivious to your presence, if your relatives are lucky then the driver of the car behind you will have some recollection of the make, model and reg of the vehicle that hit you.
sadly you are correct. I may have to ride 3/4 of the way out into the lane instead, but what is the bet that people will then try and squeeze past on the left!The oncomer will be oblivious to your presence, if your relatives are lucky then the driver of the car behind you will have some recollection of the make, model and reg of the vehicle that hit you.
zebedee said:
IroningMan said:
Sadly you won't get the opportunity. The overtaker will swerve in to avoid the accident, taking you out in the process, and continue to his or her destination.
The oncomer will be oblivious to your presence, if your relatives are lucky then the driver of the car behind you will have some recollection of the make, model and reg of the vehicle that hit you.
sadly you are correct. I may have to ride 3/4 of the way out into the lane instead, but what is the bet that people will then try and squeeze past on the left!The oncomer will be oblivious to your presence, if your relatives are lucky then the driver of the car behind you will have some recollection of the make, model and reg of the vehicle that hit you.
Yes, riding further out will draw more attention to you and cause some people to think rather than just squeezing past you on auto pilot. But the real threat comes from people who either don't care that you're there or somehow remain oblivious to the fact... The issue this morning came from a four foot wide grass cutter painted bright green, for heaven's sake! They can't have failed to see it and neither can they have believed they could squeeze past.
In this instance, with half a ton of agricultural machinery next to them they relied on the oncoming traffic to slam the brakes on. I'd put money on them just instinctively cutting back in if it had been someone on two wheels, though.
I'm not suggesting it's vindictive in any way - it's just a matter of awareness - but it does happen with worrying regularity. I've had several occasions where people have begun to overtake me going towards a width restriction or a blind bend and then had to cut back inches away from my handlebars because they've been caught out.
I know I'm preaching the converted here, but it's the one thing that defensive riding can do relatively little to alleviate. You can pre-empt most stupid things that people do, but if they decide to pull back in half way through an overtake the best you can hope for is a soft landing. It scares the daylights out of me.
Chris71 said:
but if they decide to pull back in half way through an overtake the best you can hope for is a soft landin.
the best thing you can hope for is that you get your cleats into their door / rear wing as they move across and then have a soft landing. And you get it on a helmet cam. Joking aside, it is very scary, but I do think more likely to happen to verge hoggers than someone adopting a more assertive road position. It only takes one nutcase, admittedly.zebedee said:
Chris71 said:
but if they decide to pull back in half way through an overtake the best you can hope for is a soft landing.
I do think more likely to happen to verge hoggers than someone adopting a more assertive road position. It only takes one nutcase, admittedly.But the tractor driver wasn't hogging the verge yesterday and he was a damn sight more obvious than a cyclist, wherever they're positioned, so it proves that otherwise normal people are prone to doing irrational things when presented with a slow moving vehicle. And to compound matters, people realise a ride-on mower won't be going quickly, but they often massively underestimate the speed of cyclists.
In short: We're all doooooooooomed.
People are idiots. A couple of days ago I was cycling around this corner, in the direction the camera faces:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.411809,-2.416756&a...
I occupied the whole lane and was probably doing 15mph, that didn't stop a motorist from occupying the other lane and overtaking me right around the bend. What the Google view doesn't show is the 4-feet-tall vegetation that is now behind the fences.
He probably would have seen another car or van coming the other way, but not something like an MX-5, or a kid on a bike, or a recumbent rider.
I find myself hoping that one day I'll witness one of these idiots overtake me and plough headlong into the front of something substantial. I imagine the scenario where both parties are fine, but where I can offer my services as a witness to the innocent member. While laughing at the idiocy of the idiot.
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.411809,-2.416756&a...
I occupied the whole lane and was probably doing 15mph, that didn't stop a motorist from occupying the other lane and overtaking me right around the bend. What the Google view doesn't show is the 4-feet-tall vegetation that is now behind the fences.
He probably would have seen another car or van coming the other way, but not something like an MX-5, or a kid on a bike, or a recumbent rider.
I find myself hoping that one day I'll witness one of these idiots overtake me and plough headlong into the front of something substantial. I imagine the scenario where both parties are fine, but where I can offer my services as a witness to the innocent member. While laughing at the idiocy of the idiot.
Here's my one.
Right next to the Marc Bolan memorial where he was killed (not that it helps the morons think about their driving any).
http://maps.google.com/?ll=51.466013,-0.238609&...
I was heading up the hill, 100% in primary.
There is NO WAY you can see any traffic coming the other way. I know this because I am on a bike FAR HIGHER than anyone in a regular car.
Some t
t in a (very tasty) black A5 ('10 reg) decides that using the power of the force he can easily overtake and passes me within inches.
Thank f@ck there wasn't anyone coming the other way as we know exactly what would have happened.
Tosser would have squashed me to save a head-on with his P&J.
This is at least 50% of the reason primary position is so important.
If I had seen an oncoming car I would at least have had somewhere to go as the Audi swerved left.
If you are already hugging the kerb you are SOL.
Right next to the Marc Bolan memorial where he was killed (not that it helps the morons think about their driving any).
http://maps.google.com/?ll=51.466013,-0.238609&...
I was heading up the hill, 100% in primary.
There is NO WAY you can see any traffic coming the other way. I know this because I am on a bike FAR HIGHER than anyone in a regular car.
Some t
t in a (very tasty) black A5 ('10 reg) decides that using the power of the force he can easily overtake and passes me within inches.Thank f@ck there wasn't anyone coming the other way as we know exactly what would have happened.
Tosser would have squashed me to save a head-on with his P&J.
This is at least 50% of the reason primary position is so important.
If I had seen an oncoming car I would at least have had somewhere to go as the Audi swerved left.
If you are already hugging the kerb you are SOL.
walm said:
If I had seen an oncoming car I would at least have had somewhere to go as the Audi swerved left.
Another good point. I don't know if you'd actually have time to swerve if they really panicked, but I guess you stand a chance of pre-empting it. I do tend to find myself staying wide and then pulling in a little as people actually go past.Chris71 said:
Another good point. I don't know if you'd actually have time to swerve if they really panicked, but I guess you stand a chance of pre-empting it. I do tend to find myself staying wide and then pulling in a little as people actually go past.
very good points, and its why I do it. Didn't stop a range rover (black one, surprise, surprise) forcing an oncoming hyundai to slam its brakes on and practically stop, horn blaring. Have the number of the range rover but didn't get the hyundai and the police always want another witness before doing anything about dangerous driving. There's a road on the beginning of my commute where this happens every bloody day.
My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
fking morons.
My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
f
king morons.BMWBen said:
There's a road on the beginning of my commute where this happens every bloody day.
My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
fking morons.
Don't forget. And get a Muvi headcam so you have some evidence as and when you might need it. Only about £40, well worth it. I have it every day on Illey Lane, a narrow rat run NOT wide enough for 2 cars and a bike, especially as it winds its way up a hill with 7 blind bends and the morons who painted the white line in the middle decided to do it broken all the way up - there are only 3 places you can overtake safely on there, so I pull in and let people past if there is no one coming on those bits, otherwise I own as much of the lane as possible so they have to expose themselves to danger to think about a move. Doesn't deter all, but a lot less close incidents since I moved out and most people wait patiently and I give them a wave as they come past safely to say thank you. Wave of a different type if they pass stupidly.My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
f
king morons.People drive along in their own little world, until something is in the way, whereupon they will swerve round it. Then, and only then, might they look.
I'm, er, privileged to drive a bus for a living - the number of people who will swerve around a parked car at the last moment, risking a head-on with a ten ton bus, is staggering. It's not like they're 13' high, 10' wide, multicoloured and with lights on, or anything...
The other extreme is people who just follow whatever's in front. Even if it's the aforementioned bus - every day I get people following me into bus stops and just stopping behind me, even when there's nothing coming towards.
I'm, er, privileged to drive a bus for a living - the number of people who will swerve around a parked car at the last moment, risking a head-on with a ten ton bus, is staggering. It's not like they're 13' high, 10' wide, multicoloured and with lights on, or anything...
The other extreme is people who just follow whatever's in front. Even if it's the aforementioned bus - every day I get people following me into bus stops and just stopping behind me, even when there's nothing coming towards.
zebedee said:
BMWBen said:
There's a road on the beginning of my commute where this happens every bloody day.
My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
fking morons.
Don't forget. And get a Muvi headcam so you have some evidence as and when you might need it. Only about £40, well worth it. I have it every day on Illey Lane, a narrow rat run NOT wide enough for 2 cars and a bike, especially as it winds its way up a hill with 7 blind bends and the morons who painted the white line in the middle decided to do it broken all the way up - there are only 3 places you can overtake safely on there, so I pull in and let people past if there is no one coming on those bits, otherwise I own as much of the lane as possible so they have to expose themselves to danger to think about a move. Doesn't deter all, but a lot less close incidents since I moved out and most people wait patiently and I give them a wave as they come past safely to say thank you. Wave of a different type if they pass stupidly.My resolution is to ride bang in the middle of the lane, maybe even further out. Sometimes I forget... and every time, someone goes for a stupid overtake and either causes an oncoming car to brake or tries to slam me into the verge to get back over.
f
king morons.I only have two types of wave for motorists - a 'thank you' or thumbs up when it is safe to go past me as I can see further around the bend etc.
There appears to be very little talk of 'thank you waves' when a car will patiently sit behind you for sometimes hundreds and hundreds of yards waiting patiently. When this happens, I normally acknowledge them and where appropriate, will get a move on and speed up slightly so that they know I am trying to minimise their inconvenience
May only be an extra 1mph but at least they know...WHen then safe and they pass; i will always try and thank them - and guess what - in around 65% of cases, I get a wave back!!! God forbid - people being polite to each other and not confrontational
Admittedly the vast majority of my cycling is out of town and in town it probably drops to 35% or so but I am convinced I will win!
Courtesy and good manners cost nothing!
ps - None of this will make a difference to teh utter cocks - that I admit! But then that is life and has nothing to do with cycling unfortunately - it just seems to magnify personalities
ShampooEfficient said:
People drive along in their own little world, until something is in the way, whereupon they will swerve round it. Then, and only then, might they look.
No it's not just us, happens to the best too:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-2KIUYk5l0
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